Capture One Pro 6 for half price €114,50!

Started Aug 7, 2012 | Discussions
Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: Some Samples

Theodoros Fotometria wrote:

You want shadow detail? I got shadow detail.

How about taking the dpreview NEF and showing us what can be done with Capture One Pro 6 beyond the defaults? That would be very helpful.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

Theodoros Fotometria Senior Member • Posts: 2,090
Re: Some Samples

Ralf Ronander wrote:

Thanks for your effort.
I can´t see what conclusions can be drawn from your examples though.

I´ve d/l the same file and I think developing in ACR 7.1 using my own D800(nonE) profile gives better result.
I also wonder what resizing algo you´ve been using....

That said, and this may be OT, for the vanilla D800 I´ve come to the conclusion that C1 has nothing to offer if you´ve already got PS or LR.
None of them, btw, uses the best demosaic algo (Amaze).

imho

-- hide signature --

It won't with D800 (plain)... stick with your choice.
Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr

Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: Some Samples

Ralf Ronander wrote:

Thanks for your effort.
I can´t see what conclusions can be drawn from your examples though.

Trying to see how close I can get to the Capture One Pro 6 results with Lightroom 4.1. I think I've closed the gap considerably from the dpreview samples in the D800E review.

I´ve d/l the same file and I think developing in ACR 7.1 using my own D800(nonE) profile gives better result.

How about sharing that? Can you post some samples?

I also wonder what resizing algo you´ve been using....

Screen capture of being viewed at 2:1 in Lightroom 4.1.

That said, and this may be OT, for the vanilla D800 I´ve come to the conclusion that C1 has nothing to offer if you´ve already got PS or LR.

Interesting, but I'm more interested in the D800E.

None of them, btw, uses the best demosaic algo (Amaze).

What does? Can you show us?
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

Theodoros Fotometria Senior Member • Posts: 2,090
Re: Some Samples

Robin Casady wrote:

Theodoros Fotometria wrote:

You want shadow detail? I got shadow detail.

How about taking the dpreview NEF and showing us what can be done with Capture One Pro 6 beyond the defaults? That would be very helpful.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

-- hide signature --

Ok, I'll try my best, as soon as I can, it may not be today (lots of weddings lately), but it will be soon....
Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr

just Tony
just Tony Senior Member • Posts: 2,238
Amaze demosaic found here

Robin Casady wrote:

Ralf Ronander wrote:

None of them, btw, uses the best demosaic algo (Amaze).

What does? Can you show us?

Raw Therapee touts it: http://rawtherapee.com/blog/features

Can't beat it for the price anyway.

craig
craig Senior Member • Posts: 1,946
Re: Capture One Pro 6 for half price €114,50!

So just to clarify.....is the consensus that you will only really notice a quality improvement with NEF conversion with Capture One Pro 6 if you are using a D800E and not the D800?
Craig
--

http://www.pbase.com/crs

 craig's gear list:craig's gear list
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ssmumich00 Regular Member • Posts: 417
Re: Capture One Pro 6 for half price €114,50!

I spent some time on their site, and I'm actually pretty impressed compared to my continuously tiring experience with DxO.

I like automated, batch processing, but the processing engine on DxO has become slow on my Mac with new updates...
I have a D4, is this a supported camera? Couldn't find on their site...
Neil

craig wrote:

So just to clarify.....is the consensus that you will only really notice a quality improvement with NEF conversion with Capture One Pro 6 if you are using a D800E and not the D800?
Craig
--

http://www.pbase.com/crs

 ssmumich00's gear list:ssmumich00's gear list
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Theodoros Fotometria Senior Member • Posts: 2,090
Re: Capture One Pro 6 for half price €114,50!

craig wrote:

So just to clarify.....is the consensus that you will only really notice a quality improvement with NEF conversion with Capture One Pro 6 if you are using a D800E and not the D800?
Craig
--

http://www.pbase.com/crs

-- hide signature --

You will notice some improvement with most DSLRs, but it won't be a significant one as with the D800E, the program is primarily designed to "treat" MFDBs that don't bear OLPF and thus it maximizes the microcontrast advantage to retruct more detail without "stretching" LLs and HLs, this way it keeps the balance of the final image ("weight" of HLs and LLs as I call it) much more natural than when stretching things in ACR or LR. Obviously if you have a DSLR with no extra microcontrast "buried" in its data, it won't be able to retract more than what already exists.

Mind you that as with all software, it does need experience since your approach to the image must be with its capabilities in mind.
Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr

craig
craig Senior Member • Posts: 1,946
Re: Capture One Pro 6 for half price €114,50!

Theodoros Fotometria wrote:

craig wrote:

So just to clarify.....is the consensus that you will only really notice a quality improvement with NEF conversion with Capture One Pro 6 if you are using a D800E and not the D800?
Craig
--

http://www.pbase.com/crs

Thank you very much for clarifying.

Craig S.
--

http://www.pbase.com/crs

 craig's gear list:craig's gear list
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Theodoros Fotometria Senior Member • Posts: 2,090
Re: Some Samples

Theodoros Fotometria wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Theodoros Fotometria wrote:

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Oh...I forgot Robin..., what you have up there is probably 1&1/2 a stop of MORE DR... and that's in "default"... it must be near 14 stops or more you can achieve by trying to extract as much as possible... well... DON'T! Try to develop for a "real photograph" like in film... forget about "digital way of approaching the image"... D880e+C1 is different... I repeat, we can ALL "play" Ansel now...

You want shadow detail? I got shadow detail.

How about taking the dpreview NEF and showing us what can be done with Capture One Pro 6 beyond the defaults? That would be very helpful.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

-- hide signature --

Ok, I'll try my best, as soon as I can, it may not be today (lots of weddings lately), but it will be soon....
Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr

-- hide signature --

Here is a high contrast scene I choose from DPR Robin, I processed both for the best IMO, keeping (almost) the exposure the same for the sky (not the clouds)... It was rather quick... perhaps could do a bit better with both, but I think it proves what I mean to a good extend... you may try the same image yourself and see what happens...

P.S. My opinion is not to try to get images as close as possible... but process for what you think is the best with the tool used, ...why? ...Because that's what we do when taking pictures... nobody shoots to compare right?, ....we compare ON our shooting result.
Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr

Rich42 Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: Some Samples

What do these images show that would lead anyone to conclude anything about the software? The shadows are more open in the ACR image and the color balance is better, but who knows what settings were used? What is the point of these samples?

Rich

Theodoros Fotometria Senior Member • Posts: 2,090
Re: Some Samples

Rich42 wrote:

What do these images show that would lead anyone to conclude anything about the software? The shadows are more open in the ACR image and the color balance is better, but who knows what settings were used? What is the point of these samples?

Rich

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Look at the deep shadows inside the wheel Rich...
Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr

Rich42 Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: Some Samples

The "deep" shadows are more open everywhere in the ACR-processed image. But no one knows what settings or methods were used to produce these results.

What is the point?

These 2 images tell nothing.

Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: Some Samples

I think it would have been more helpful to use the same image I had used and shown what you consider the best you could do with C1 Pro 6.

The NEF can be downloaded from the D800E review.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/27

http://s3.amazonaws.com/...es.dpreview.com/nikon_d800/landscape_d800e.NEF.zip
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

Theodoros Fotometria Senior Member • Posts: 2,090
Re: Some Samples

Rich42 wrote:

The "deep" shadows are more open everywhere in the ACR-processed image. But no one knows what settings or methods were used to produce these results.

What is the point?

These 2 images tell nothing.

-- hide signature --

They are not, it's only that the shadows disappeared completely with ACR.. if you look at the deepest shadows inside the front wheel you'll notice the difference, you may also look for the details on the bicycles pedals, also... the HLs although they are both for the clouds they can't protect the reflections on ACR... the WB on both has been tuned for the sky, however on ACR the rest of the picture is noticeably cooler, colors have lost their linearity too, look at the reds, they are pink in ACR... look at the black trousers.. on ACR it lost the detail... but I think the most important thing that happens is that if you try to push shadows on ACR, the natural shadows of the sun light has gone... this can be catastrophic for "real" photography which is all about lighting and shadows... look at the front wheel... there is no shadow whatsoever left on it... otoh, look how the windows of the bus lost their shading in ACR... it all has happened because it was pushed a bit (not much) for shadow detail, yet it kept less in deep shadows... First image is "heavy", "filmish" if you prefer..., second is clearly "digital", I would say "light"...
Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr

Rich42 Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: Some Samples

You have picked an atrociious image to claim any of the things you have. On my monitor the ACR image looks better in every respect. The skin tones are better, the colors are more neutral. The C1 image has a yellow-green cast and is quite dark.

As far as shadow detail, what "front wheel" are you talking about? The bus, the two bicycles?

In any case, the deep shadows of the C1 image are poor compared to the ACR image. I'll be at a different monitor in a few hours, maybe things will be different there. But your methods are seriously lacking here.

C1 has a deserved reputation for extracting detail, but in most cases, the differences compared to ACR or LR are very subtle and in a skilled printer's hands, images are going to be so close that such differences will not be something that makes one choose one print over another.

Rich

OP BobYIL Contributing Member • Posts: 940
Re: Some Samples

Robin Casady wrote:

Theodoros Fotometria wrote:

BobYIL wrote:

When I saw the comparison in the D800E review, I noted the difference.

That's the problem with the comparisons in the dpreview D800E review. They used the default settings for ACR and Capture One Pro 6. In this case, the C1P6 image looks much better than the ACR image.

So, I took the dpreivew NEF and brought it into Lightroom 4.1. I compared it with the full size JPEG from dpreview's C1P6 version and tweaked the NEF until I got as close to the C1P6 version as I could. It would be nice to see someone try getting the optimum out of C1P6 with the dpreview NEF.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/27
http://s3.amazonaws.com/movies.dpreview.com/nikon_d800/landscape_d800e.NEF.zip

All I could do was compare with the C1P6 defaults. Here are those results at 200%. The NEF on the left is the one modified in Lightroom 4.1.

Here are the settings I used. Someone with more skills could probably improve on these.

Robin,

From your pictures, the ones on the right are C1P6:

Note the wire-like thing running down near the pole.

Here note the twigs and tiny branches on the dark background.

To my eyes, the fine details on the C1P6 conversions seem to be a little more "correctly" detailed. Not in 200% (pixels distracting too much) but at 100% such details are more "finely depicted" with the C1P6.

I do not have LR4, did not upgrade my LR3. However this weekend I will spend some time with the 28/1.8G on the D800E (very sharp right into the corners @f5.6) with CNX2 and C1P6 conversions; I expect the differences would be revealed more. Yesterday I tried it only for a few shots and even the tonality was apparently different to notice, a little more saturated colors, better edge contrast, etc.

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BobYIL

Theodoros Fotometria Senior Member • Posts: 2,090
Re: Some Samples

Robin Casady wrote:

I think it would have been more helpful to use the same image I had used and shown what you consider the best you could do with C1 Pro 6.

The NEF can be downloaded from the D800E review.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/27

http://s3.amazonaws.com/...es.dpreview.com/nikon_d800/landscape_d800e.NEF.zip
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

-- hide signature --

I possibly could do that for you but It'll have to be sometime next morning when I'll be back in "fotometria" where my Eizo is... I am on my laptop now and only have "phocus" and "flexcolor" on it which is what I use with my MFDB... (and ACR+LR for weddings). However the image you've chosen is clearly a lesser contrast scene than the one I've chosen (I decided on it because it was of high contrast), I think it would be best if you try my choice... mind you though that web's presentation is very different than our development (different gamma curve) and that people in the conversation have different monitors with different calibration, so we don't really know what everyone sees... My comparisons are made with prints... I am not much into pixel peeping... I also believe that a photograph is only the printed thing on paper..., never a digital image... but again that's me...

Theodoros
http://www.fotometria.gr

MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 14,932
Re: Some Samples

But your methods are seriously lacking here.

Don't tell me you're surprised !

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Thierry

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 14,932
Re: Can anyone provide comparison COPro6 vs. LR4?

Robin wrote:

The sale will last until the 12th. Can anyone provide 100% crops from a D800E that shows the difference between Lightroom 4.1 and Capture One Pro 6? I'd go for Capture One Pro 6 at that price if I could really see a difference.
--

Why don't you take advantage of the free demo ability? In my own experience with ACR and C1 the latter comes usually on top for detail extraction - by a small margin. But you may see it differently (like no difference that matters to you).

C1 interface is a bit clunky and is not very efficiency oriented (I'd say that if you don't like NX2 for this reason you'll probably won't like C1 that much), and its noise reduction for high ISO images is the worse of the bunch. But again maybe others would see it differently.

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Thierry

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