GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

Started Jul 24, 2012 | Discussions
archdukeguacamole Regular Member • Posts: 173
GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

I was out for an evening walk yesterday and took my GH2 with an old Sigma 28mm F2.8. I've included some samples that I am pleased with. However the rejection rate was quite high, many photos at longer focal distances suffered from the lack of stabilization (or is it that I am a poor workman blaming his tools?). The EM-5 has IBIS unlike Panasonic.

Those of you with EM-5s who shoot with legacy lenses, do you find the IBIS effective?

I really enjoy using old lenses and wish to continue to do so but without too many poor results.

Should I think this a sufficient reason to change to E-M5?
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archduke

Julian_K Senior Member • Posts: 1,171
Re: GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'at longer focal lengths', aren't you always at the same focal length with the lens? To be honest, IS alone is no reason to change camera. Sure it's nice to have (and it works great on an E-M5) however you would save a lot of money just buying a monopod or something to keep the camera steady while shooting. At 28mm and with a max aperture of 2.8 I really can't see too many reasons you couldn't get good quality results and keep the ISO below 800.

Can you show some of the bad results so we can see where things may be going wrong?

spacenegroes Regular Member • Posts: 135
Re: GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

Julian_K wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by 'at longer focal lengths', aren't you always at the same focal length with the lens? To be honest, IS alone is no reason to change camera. Sure it's nice to have (and it works great on an E-M5) however you would save a lot of money just buying a monopod or something to keep the camera steady while shooting. At 28mm and with a max aperture of 2.8 I really can't see too many reasons you couldn't get good quality results and keep the ISO below 800.

Can you show some of the bad results so we can see where things may be going wrong?

sidenote: we know what focal length refers to, but what do we call the distance a lens is currently focused on? focUS length?

Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,466
Re: GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

archdukeguacamole wrote:

I was out for an evening walk yesterday and took my GH2 with an old Sigma 28mm F2.8. I've included some samples that I am pleased with. However the rejection rate was quite high, many photos at longer focal distances suffered from the lack of stabilization (or is it that I am a poor workman blaming his tools?). The EM-5 has IBIS unlike Panasonic.

I guess you mean longer exposure times rather than longer focal distances. With a 28 mm on an MFT camera you should normally be able to manage 1/60 without stabilization, perhaps 1/100 to be on the safe side. And for an evening walk before sunset, there should be enough light for that even at base ISO (as illustrated by the samples you show, where the longest shutter speed you used is 1/100).

Those of you with EM-5s who shoot with legacy lenses, do you find the IBIS effective?

I use only one legacy lens at the moment, a Minolta MD 85/2, and for that particular lens the IBIS on the E-M5 is not very helpful since it misbehaves (at least my copy) with certain lenses at certain shutter speeds (double contours vertically). There's more info in this thread if you are interested:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&message=41666879

But the shutter speeds affected by this problem are only partly in the range that would be particularly helpful with a shorter FL like 28 mm and it might be that your lens, unlike my Minolta 85, isn't affected by the problem at all.

The kind of scenes for which IBIS would be helpful at 28 mm are different from those you show though. You need a close to perfectly static scene (or a scene where some motion blur is desirable) to shoot at 1/30 or below. And unless you happen to be out on an evening without any wind, the foliage will move enough to make it blurred.

I really enjoy using old lenses and wish to continue to do so but without too many poor results.

Should I think this a sufficient reason to change to E-M5?
--
archduke

 Anders W's gear list:Anders W's gear list
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OniMirage Contributing Member • Posts: 990
Re: GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

Focal length is too short to really justify a move. You "will" notice a difference but I don't think you will be satisfied with it alone. You need a longer focal length example to really see what is happening. As soon as you hit around 100mm the results are mind blowing.

s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 11,836
Re: GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

I wouldn't blame camera; I'd blame this old F 28mm lens.

When you use kit lens that came with camera (14-42 for instance), do you have this kind of a problem? I think, no.

BTW, your samples are good reminder to me why I sold all legacy lenses with F shorter than 50mm.
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I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.

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Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 33,590
Not yet, not for that reason.

If you're not sure of your technique (and you clearly are not), you might benefit from examining best practices. Here's one link to start with:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-shake.htm

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...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com

"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
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OP archdukeguacamole Regular Member • Posts: 173
Re: Not yet, not for that reason.

Thanks all for the comments. Anders, that's very helpful.
I could certainly improve my technique, thanks Bob for the link.

I don't care to take a tripod or monopod with me on a walk; although thinking about it the monopod could double up as a stick for one of my dogs to carry.

There seems to be no certain great advantage to the IBIS-so stick to the Panasonic and see what the GH3 has to offer.
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archduke

Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 33,590
Re: Not yet, not for that reason.

archdukeguacamole wrote:

Thanks all for the comments. Anders, that's very helpful.
I could certainly improve my technique, thanks Bob for the link.

I don't care to take a tripod or monopod with me on a walk; although thinking about it the monopod could double up as a stick for one of my dogs to carry.

I felt the same way early on - until there were subjects I wanted to capture that required such accessories.

There seems to be no certain great advantage to the IBIS-so stick to the Panasonic and see what the GH3 has to offer.

I wouldn't say IBIS has no advantage, but it's no substitute for technique, rather it's an aid for when good technique calls for a bit of assistance. You may find you can use the assistance of IBIS once technique is refined - but you may find for what you commonly do it's not a requirement at all.

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...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com

"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

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woof woof
woof woof Senior Member • Posts: 1,763
Re: GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

s_grins wrote:

I wouldn't blame camera; I'd blame this old F 28mm lens.

When you use kit lens that came with camera (14-42 for instance), do you have this kind of a problem? I think, no.

BTW, your samples are good reminder to me why I sold all legacy lenses with F shorter than 50mm.
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What's wrong with the pictures?

bedhead Regular Member • Posts: 363
Re: GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

I too, very much like legacy glass; and my $40 28mm is the only way I can get to a more traditional FOV outdoors, without using the kit lens and accepting it's own special magic...

The difficulty of Wife, Dog, Tripod and Walking and Shooting at the same time, is sort of like a pulling off a moon landing. (Ok, maybe not a moon landing, maybe more like choosing matching socks, but definitely not easy)

Currently I require manual focus and a tripod (aperture rings are also lovely) to improve my craft. And actually get the results I See and Want.

Out with the wife and the dogs in good light or on a trail, with the kit lens, is a recipe for snapshots. Some of them quite nice... But MOSTLY, they are not what I'm looking for . However, when I have the 28 2.8 MF on, and I am Patient (wait 'til she gets hyper-focal... and I Breathe (scream i mean) , and I Plan (i'm at f8 right?), I can get much better results from the legacy than I can with the kit. (yes, w/o tripod. which leaves the compositions a bit lacking.)

IBIS isn't going to help me with these issues.

A $100 12-50 WOULD BE GREAT THO THX!

woof woof
woof woof Senior Member • Posts: 1,763
Re: GH2 with Sigma 28mm F2.8-no IBIS should I change to E-M5?

bedhead wrote:

I too, very much like legacy glass;

I usually use a Voigtlander 25mm f0.95 but recently I've been using a Minolta 55mm f1.7 + adapter that I picked up for £19. It's a very nice thing on MFT

Ulfric M Douglas Veteran Member • Posts: 4,785
... should I change to E-M5?

archdukeguacamole wrote:

I was out for an evening walk yesterday and took my GH2 with an old Sigma 28mm F2.8. I've included some samples that I am pleased with. However the rejection rate was quite high, many photos at longer focal distances suffered from the lack of stabilization (or is it that I am a poor workman blaming his tools?).

At anything 50mm and under I do not require stabilisation on old lenses, and in daylight neither should you. It's a 28mm for dog's sake!
Could there be anything else going wrong?

I take at least two shots on low burst rate with each framing, 3 shots on my G1.
This ensures me at least one free of any camera shake. You could try it too.

IBIS comes into its own at focal lengths greater than 150 (for me) and in low-light scenes.

However all that aside : every humam on the planet should of course change to the e-M5.

OP archdukeguacamole Regular Member • Posts: 173
Re: ... should I change to E-M5?

Ulfric M Douglas wrote:

archdukeguacamole wrote:

I was out for an evening walk yesterday and took my GH2 with an old Sigma 28mm F2.8. I've included some samples that I am pleased with. However the rejection rate was quite high, many photos at longer focal distances suffered from the lack of stabilization (or is it that I am a poor workman blaming his tools?).

At anything 50mm and under I do not require stabilisation on old lenses, and in daylight neither should you. It's a 28mm for dog's sake!
Could there be anything else going wrong?

I take at least two shots on low burst rate with each framing, 3 shots on my G1.
This ensures me at least one free of any camera shake. You could try it too.

IBIS comes into its own at focal lengths greater than 150 (for me) and in low-light scenes.

However all that aside : every humam on the planet should of course change to the e-M5.

I'll try the 3 shots-thanks for the tip!
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archduke

Bob Meyer Veteran Member • Posts: 5,375
Camera movement isn't the issue

Remember what IBIS (or OIS) does: it helps compensate for CAMERA movement, not subject movement. I don't see any real signs of camera movement in those shots. Take a look at the first one. The wheat (?) grains that you're focused on are very sharp. Ones that are away from where you focused are blurry; that's because the depth of field at close focusing distance gets very shallow.

I think there's also some blur caused by subject movement, the wheat is moving in the breeze. IS of any sort won't do a thing about that. The only way to freeze subject motion is with higher shutter speeds.

The primary subject in the second pic looks reasonably sharp, and again I don't see any signs of camera movement, which would tend to blur everything in the same direction.

In short, no, IBIS wouldn't have made those pictures any better. A sharper lens might, or applying a little bit of sharpening in post processing (or more sharpening in-camera if you're shooting jpeg).
--

I've told myself to stop using "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

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eagle_I
eagle_I Senior Member • Posts: 2,670
Re: Not yet, not for that reason.

archdukeguacamole wrote:

I don't care to take a tripod or monopod with me on a walk; although thinking about it the monopod could double up as a stick for one of my dogs to carry.

I wouldn't waste the dog's time. I've bought and tried monopods a couple times, but both attempts to make them useful have ended in frustration. Always ends up being a "stick" hanging from the camera that just gets in the way. I'm not a sideline sports photog, but a walker and a shooter of whatever comes along.

. . . . . . . . -so stick to the Panasonic and see what the GH3 has to offer.

A GH3? This statement seems to tell me you're counting on equipment to solve your problems. I've had my GH2 for over a year and am still working to master it. I'm a retired photog with over thirty years experience and my hard earned wisdom (as a master of making mistakes) is the YOU'VE GOTTA LEARN how to get best out of your equipment, tools, toys, or whatever you want to call it. It takes a desire to want to know what makes it tick when you're at the steering wheel ... like at what shutter speed you can expect to hold steady for acceptable results. And what ISO you can live with as you try to take sharp shots in fading evening light. PRACTICE, doing it, will bring the mistakes that you'll hopefully learn from. For me it often takes three times, before experience sinks in.

Invest in yourself before seeking salvation in new gear.

Mark
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