New EOS-M, a mistake!

Started Jul 23, 2012 | Discussions
tymevest Senior Member • Posts: 1,495
New EOS-M, a mistake!

I would not buy one for one simple reason. No viewfinder. I have yet to see any camera that has an LCD that is easy to see in bright sunlight. I wouldn't carry around an LCD hood just to be able to use it. All they needed to so was tap the signal to the LCD and install a small electronic viewfinder like Panasonic does on many of their cameras. What good is any camera when you can't see what you are taking a picture of?

Other than that, it's not bad. Internal stabilization would have been nice so the lenses could have been less expensive. I like the APS-C size sensor in a smaller camera. Try again next year Canon. Maybe you'll get it right then.
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Tymevest

dlinney Regular Member • Posts: 215
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

Don't assume this is a mistake. I see lots of people shooting entry level DSLRs using the liveview facility. The EF-M target market is upgraders from P&S cameras and that's how they take pictures.

Sure, hopefully there will be a family of EF-M cameras some with built-in EVF and some with accessory EVF for the "down-grader" from a DSLR.

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Derek

OP tymevest Senior Member • Posts: 1,495
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!
1

The only advantage is size and possibly cost. If I were buying one and the viewfinder were $100 more, I'd gladly pay it. I have and had several smaller pocket cameras without viewfinders. There are times when they are next to useless. Indoors is usually no problem.

It could have looked something like this or with the viewfinder housing blended into the body more.

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Tymevest

Shorthand Senior Member • Posts: 2,972
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

Its pretty clear that we are not the EOS M's target market.

I have pretty much decided to get a Sony RX100 for my compact photography needs instead.

For my current pending needs (kiddo #1 on the way) I would need at least the shorty forty or nifty fifty, and then its really not that much smaller than a Rebel with a pancake lens.

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canuck dave
canuck dave Senior Member • Posts: 2,922
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

"I would not buy one for one simple reason. No viewfinder."................

I just read the preview and came away with the same conclusion.

OP tymevest Senior Member • Posts: 1,495
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

canuck dave wrote:

"I would not buy one for one simple reason. No viewfinder."................

I just read the preview and came away with the same conclusion.

Hope the people at Canon sees the above picture. They should make the camera 2 ways, with and without a viewfinder, and see which sells best. The wife likes this older Kodak which takes really good pictures in decent light. She carries around this viewer to use outside. Kind of inconvenient. I wouldn't spend $700-$800 on a camera body and have to resort to this.

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Tymevest

justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 5,481
No 18-55mm kit (USA)

What I find strange, is that in the USA, you can't get it with a 18-55mm kit lens.

First, you pay $799.99 for the camera with a 20mm kit lens. Then, you have to pay an additional $299.99 for the 18-55mm.

.#PRICEFAIL

Fooshnik Regular Member • Posts: 246
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

That's nutty. And since all the controls are via the touchscreen it's completely impractical.

From all I've read so far the screen is the same as on the T4i, and yes the T4i screen is difficult to see in sunlight. You certainly can't discern any nuance of the scene (underexposure, overexposure, etc) and with the histogram on it reduces the image preview to the size of your thumbnail.

I also don't understand the notion that this is being marketed as an "upgrade" for P&S users. How many people are going to spend $800 to go from a 10X optical zoom to a fixed 22mm? This is something the DSLR user will buy so they don't have to lug around 20lbs of gear, I just don't see it filling that niche very well.

ghohan422 Forum Member • Posts: 52
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

Well, for a first product, I think it makes good sense to do it the way they did.

Canon looked at the mirrorless camera segment and targeted things like the ep-m, gf-5 and to a lesser extent the Nikon 1.

They don't want to make a competitor to the em-5 or Sony Nex-7 because it would overlap with the Rebel series. So they just want a compact camera for the non-enthusiast with great image quality. For serious photography they want you to look to DSLRs for now.

Probably everyone posting on these forums would rather have a proper viewfinder. When the they start to produce a product line full of mirrorless cameras, that's when we'll probably see a viewfinder and better phase detect autofocus from them.

Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,202
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

tymevest wrote:

Try again next year Canon. Maybe you'll get it right then.

They already got it right. It's called "REBEL".

Digirame Forum Pro • Posts: 34,211
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

I've been using Olympus DSLR cameras for almost five years. Then there was a period that Olympus was "pushing" the PENs on to the E-xxx DSLR users. Those PENs (including the XZ-1 P&S camera) did not have built-in viewfinders. Then people started buying add-on viewfinders for a lot of extra cost. So...guess what? I'm now using two Canon DSLR cameras and two EF-S lenses. I prefer to never own one of those cameras without built-in viewfinders.

Finally, Olympus did make something right (after I bought my first Canon DSLR camera). It was called the Olympus E-M5 (with a built-in viewfinder). I wonder how long is Canon going to produce these P&S style of MILC cameras, before they realize it's the wrong way to go also? Or maybe they just want to create these for a certain section of the consumer market.

TTMartin
TTMartin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,304
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

Don't forget, if people want a viewfinder they can by a Rebel.

I would expect the T4 to be touch screen version of the T3, maybe with a hybrid sensor for autofocus during video.

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xlotus Regular Member • Posts: 465
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

Those clip-on EVFs cost you between $150 to $250.
They are not cheap.
I won't spend my money on an external EVF. It looks too fragile.

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I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...of my lens.

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xlotus Regular Member • Posts: 465
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

Image stabilization does not make a lens more expensive.
For example:

My Tamron 70-300 VC only cost me $350 and it gives me 4-stop advantage.

Olympus m43 75-300 without stabilization costs $899.
IBIS on my Olympus EPM1 can barely give me 2-stop advantage.

tymevest wrote:

Other than that, it's not bad. Internal stabilization would have been nice so the lenses could have been less expensive.

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I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...of my lens.

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WilbaW
WilbaW Forum Pro • Posts: 11,422
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

tymevest wrote:

Try again next year Canon. Maybe you'll get it right then.

I'm sure this is how it works...

(This time next year in Tokyo.)

Marketing Executive: "EOS-M not sell enough! What happening?"

Product Manager: "Crikey! Quick, look on DPReview... what they say?"

Product Designer: "OMG! They want viewfinder !! I must commit harakiri!" Schwing, squitch, blerk, thud.

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Check out the unofficial Rebel forum FAQ - http://snipurl.com/RebelFAQ

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DVT80111 Senior Member • Posts: 2,945
Not a NEX-7, no thanks.

Zero reason to downgrade.

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Narcosynthesis Senior Member • Posts: 1,828
Re: Not a NEX-7, no thanks.

It is all marketing - Canon obviously feel that without a viewfinder (or option of an external one) that they will save more money omitting the extra technology and parts than they would gain in sales by adding a viewfinder.

It is also worth remembering that on specs the EOS-M is going against the basic level mirrorless like the Panasonic GF series, not the higher end bodies like the G5, NEX7 and OM-D, and if you look at the Panasonic GF series in particular, they started out with the option of an external viewfinder, which they ave now gotten rid of with the GF3 and GF5, so presumably it wasn't worth it to them either...
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OlavM Forum Member • Posts: 93
Re: To Dlinney: New EOS-M, a mistake!

Mee too, I've seen people using the live view function of their DSLR's. It's not that, so 'wattsabout' then ?

I've ALSO seen lots of people USING THE VIEWFINDER of their camera, both 'compacts' and DSLRs, to snap their vacation shots etc., especially in bright sunlight ! (not THAT uncommon sight, no...) -this 'translates into' that your argument is only PART-time true, and to eliminate the need for a viewfinder, it had to be true > 99.9 % of time or more ...

A couple of years ago, I tried (honestly!) to 'force' myself to get used to a 'point and shoot' superzoom (Panasonic TZ7 w/o viewfinder), such a hopeless project, reason:

The high-quality AND high-gloss display of my TZ7 becomes almost unreadable under certain conditions (a minor part of shooting time, yes, still substantial). Using the common solution to this, a kind of screen-protector with a matte finish, this to reduce the 'glare', also reduces the readability of the screen in general, a whole LOT. This alternative was simply rejected (my personal taste). I'm still lugging around my 40D w/ 2 zooms...

My guess is, people buying into the Canon M system, will experience the same major disappointment, and many of them will strongly regret/replace it, rather soon, and telling their friends...

To me, we may now be witnessing the birth of a short-lived, very scarsely populated system, but then, Canon could choose to release: M-system add-on electronic viewfinder -rather soon, that is...carrying a reasonable price-tag that is, -and hear hear : A mega-success is rolling..

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,202
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

Lens-based image stabilization is specific to a lens and I think for that reason is said to work better by a stop or more.

xlotus wrote:
Image stabilization does not make a lens more expensive.
For example:

My Tamron 70-300 VC only cost me $350 and it gives me 4-stop advantage.

Olympus m43 75-300 without stabilization costs $899.
IBIS on my Olympus EPM1 can barely give me 2-stop advantage.

tymevest wrote:

Other than that, it's not bad. Internal stabilization would have been nice so the lenses could have been less expensive.

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I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...of my lens.

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'Bass-ackward' does not equate to 'superior'.

OP tymevest Senior Member • Posts: 1,495
Re: New EOS-M, a mistake!

WilbaW wrote:

tymevest wrote:

Try again next year Canon. Maybe you'll get it right then.

I'm sure this is how it works...

(This time next year in Tokyo.)

Marketing Executive: "EOS-M not sell enough! What happening?"

Product Manager: "Crikey! Quick, look on DPReview... what they say?"

Product Designer: "OMG! They want viewfinder !! I must commit harakiri!" Schwing, squitch, blerk, thud.

-- hide signature --

Check out the unofficial Rebel forum FAQ - http://snipurl.com/RebelFAQ

Exactly!
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