EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

Started Jun 21, 2012 | Discussions
joger
joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,835
EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)
1

Since I am mostly interested in the best you can get it was a real surprise that the 40 mm pancake drew my attention. Clearly it is not the best lens on this planet

(this should be the 300 f/2.8 II I recently bought)

BUT I was missing a nice and small and good enough walk around lens. I like primes especially due to the smaller form factor. The 40 mm STM is simply a very appealing package and the idea of a 40 mm f/2.8 lens is nice - much cheaper then the 24-70s and much smaller too.

Today I received my copy and while my lunch break I went out to a local castle to do some pictures.

All pictures are modified and optimized the way I normally handle files - yet there was no distortion correction done. Some are vertically shifted (with LightRoom) to compensate for the tilting of the lens.

Have fun

1st impression is: not only good enough but really nice - much better then my Sigma 15-30 mm at 30 mm and probably better then the 17-40 at 40 mm (test vs the 17-40 will follow this weekend)

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M J Valentine Senior Member • Posts: 1,262
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

Hi,

The photos look good with little distortion. Are you using a 5d/1D or a crop body?

I am trying to decide whether to purchase a 40mm STM for use with a 60D.

Kind regards,

Martyn

joger
OP joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,835
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

M J Valentine wrote:

Hi,

The photos look good with little distortion. Are you using a 5d/1D or a crop body?

I am trying to decide whether to purchase a 40mm STM for use with a 60D.

Kind regards,

Martyn

5D II

Distortion seems to be near to zero - quite amazing - IMHO a no brainer - having said that it is not the same level a a TS-E 17 / 24 II or 90 bur it seems to match the 17-40 at 40 mm - which is amazingly good on FF at f/2.8

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Shamus1
Shamus1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,717
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

Picked one up last night at Best Buy (really surprised they had them so soon) as my local camera store hasn't received theirs yet. Can't wait to try it out. Nic pics

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rpiotr01 Regular Member • Posts: 256
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

Seems to confirm what others are saying. Thanks for sharing!

brudy Senior Member • Posts: 1,510
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

This would seem to be a nice (yet cheap) lens for FF owners. I wish canon would do something similar for crop owners. A 30mm version perhaps. 40 is too long for me on a crop.

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zlatko Regular Member • Posts: 401
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

I agree. Canon should make an equivalent pancake lens for their APS-C cameras too. A 24mm, 28mm or 30mm would be ideal. Basically the same idea as this 40mm, but built for the crop factor.

brudy wrote:

This would seem to be a nice (yet cheap) lens for FF owners. I wish canon would do something similar for crop owners. A 30mm version perhaps. 40 is too long for me on a crop.

joger
OP joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,835
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

zlatko wrote:

I agree. Canon should make an equivalent pancake lens for their APS-C cameras too. A 24mm, 28mm or 30mm would be ideal. Basically the same idea as this 40mm, but built for the crop factor.

brudy wrote:

This would seem to be a nice (yet cheap) lens for FF owners. I wish canon would do something similar for crop owners. A 30mm version perhaps. 40 is too long for me on a crop.

I completely disagree on lenses for the crop format due to many reasons - let me share them with you:

1.) The crop format is subject to fade away over time - and most crop format shooters decide sooner or later to buy FF - so what to do with the EF-S lenses?

2.) There is sure no big production price difference between crop format and FF lenses

3.) The possible sales numbers of two separate lens lines make the economical calculation unnecessary difficult for manufacturers

4.) If you have decided that smaller is more beautiful for you - you can use the swee spot of the FF lenses

5.) I never saw a good crop optimized lens yet - from no manufacturer - so there is either no chance to do that (with the cost constraints in mind) or manufactures know that the crop fomart in DSLR is something that will be be over soon

My personal prediction is that we will see more and more system cameras without mirrors and these cameras will be the replacement fro crop format DSLRs - only a tiny bit longer we will see FF DSLRs and then they might also be replaced by mirror less cameras - there is simply no reason to have a mirror in a few years from now and the possibilities are much bigger - so why build dedicated lenses for that format when you can use FF lenses??

Just buy a 35 mm lens - I hope it is not the price that drove your wish!! Price driven decision s are not necessarily the best.

Coming back tot he 40 mm pancake - I guess it shows the limits of a moderate manufacturing price and thus a good end price. the 40 mm is not at the same level as the L lenses but not far away too - the bokeh is simply stunning and the size and weight is nothing but spectacular - should fit gorgeously on y crop format too

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mu55 Senior Member • Posts: 1,399
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

thanks for posting these - I feel alot better about my impulse buy last night - hopefully on it's way from Hong Kong - so anywhere from tomorrow until 45 days (the longest i've had to wait for stuff from China - shortest was 3 days)

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Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 13,055
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

joger wrote:

most crop format shooters decide sooner or later to buy FF

What???!!!!?!!@@????

2.) There is sure no big production price difference between crop format and FF lenses

In general that's arguably correct. But for a 30 mm (say) lens there are two significant advantages. Being able to put the rear element closer to the sensor means the lens doesn't need to be so strongly retrofocus, which makes for a simpler, lighter design. And one of the big challenges of wide angle design - performance in the corners - is much simplified when the image circle is 1x6x smaller.

3.) The possible sales numbers of two separate lens lines make the economical calculation unnecessary difficult for manufacturers

Yeah, much too hard for Canon I'm sure.

4.) If you have decided that smaller is more beautiful for you - you can use the swee spot of the FF lenses

Have you ever compared for example the Sigma 30/1.4 and the 35/1.4L? Just "use the sweet spot" is somewhat missing the point.

5.) I never saw a good crop optimized lens yet - from no manufacturer -

The EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS?

The 60 macro?

And from my own bag, the Sigma 18-50/2.8 macro which in its day gave a unique combination of speed, image quality and price in a compact package. The only full frame lens which compares is the 16-35L at about four times the price.

Mike99999 Regular Member • Posts: 436
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

joger wrote:

5.) I never saw a good crop optimized lens yet - from no manufacturer - so there is either no chance to do that (with the cost constraints in mind) or manufactures know that the crop fomart in DSLR is something that will be be over soon

Such a terribly wrong statement. Excellent crop-optimized lenses include:

Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8 fish-eye
Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8
Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8
Nikkor 35mm f/1.8
Tokina 50-135mm f/2.8

And they are all several times smaller than their FX equivalents.

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mmullen Veteran Member • Posts: 4,285
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

joger wrote:

1.) The crop format is subject to fade away over time - and most crop format shooters decide sooner or later to buy FF - so what to do with the EF-S lenses?

LOL! Crop DSLR's outsell FF by such a huge margin it's not even funny! If by "most" you mean "about 2%" then you might be correct.

People have been predicting the imminent demise of the crop format for years. If anything, it has become a more popular format, even with the advent of affordable (but still huge) FF bodies. I have absolutely nothing against FF cameras but I would need a compelling reason to give up the many advantages of APS-C.

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photonius Veteran Member • Posts: 6,833
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

joger wrote:

zlatko wrote:

I agree. Canon should make an equivalent pancake lens for their APS-C cameras too. A 24mm, 28mm or 30mm would be ideal. Basically the same idea as this 40mm, but built for the crop factor.

brudy wrote:

This would seem to be a nice (yet cheap) lens for FF owners. I wish canon would do something similar for crop owners. A 30mm version perhaps. 40 is too long for me on a crop.

I completely disagree on lenses for the crop format due to many reasons - let me share them with you:

1.) The crop format is subject to fade away over time - and most crop format shooters decide sooner or later to buy FF - so what to do with the EF-S lenses?

That's just plain not true, just extrapolated from yourself. I'm never going to buy bigger, heavier, and more expensive.

2.) There is sure no big production price difference between crop format and FF lenses.

If Canon can shave off 1$ off production cost, they will do it, i.e. compare the 18-55 IS versus 18-55 IS mark II. I mean what's the cost difference for the little silver ring, and the little white lens mounting bump? Tiny, but they did it, because in large scale, they must have been able to save more money than the cost of redesigning was. In the wide-angle range you sure can save quite a bit of money in lens design because of the smaller image circle on EF-S. For the tele range, yes, there will be no difference.

3.) The possible sales numbers of two separate lens lines make the economical calculation unnecessary difficult for manufacturers

Obviously not, otherwise there wouldn't be FF and crop lenses.

4.) If you have decided that smaller is more beautiful for you - you can use the swee spot of the FF lenses

Except there are no FF lenses for UWA for crop, where is the 10mm FF lens? It's going to be extremely difficult to make, and would end up huge and expensive.

5.) I never saw a good crop optimized lens yet - from no manufacturer - so there is either no chance to do that (with the cost constraints in mind) or manufactures know that the crop fomart in DSLR is something that will be be over soon

A completely uninformed personal opinion....

My personal prediction is that we will see more and more system cameras without mirrors and these cameras will be the replacement fro crop format DSLRs - only a tiny bit longer we will see FF DSLRs and then they might also be replaced by mirror less cameras - there is simply no reason to have a mirror in a few years from now and the possibilities are much bigger - so why build dedicated lenses for that format when you can use FF lenses??

Yes, mirror-less will take away from the crop lens sector once it takes off.

But, look at were mirror-less is going? Small and compact, ergo smaller sensors. APS-C sensors, and smaller, Canon will probably be a G1X like sensor. Look at Nikon, a tiny sensor.

What does that mean? Lots of new lenses that need to be designed for the wide angle range for these cameras, because the FF lenses are not wide enough due to the crop factor.

Ergo FF lenses alone will NEVER be the only type of lens in a manufacturers line-up.

Just buy a 35 mm lens - I hope it is not the price that drove your wish!! Price driven decision s are not necessarily the best.

Coming back tot he 40 mm pancake - I guess it shows the limits of a moderate manufacturing price and thus a good end price. the 40 mm is not at the same level as the L lenses but not far away too - the bokeh is simply stunning and the size and weight is nothing but spectacular - should fit gorgeously on y crop format too

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englishman
MOD englishman Contributing Member • Posts: 945
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

Focus speed vs. nifty fifty?

Focus speed vs. kit lens?

joger
OP joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,835
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

Mike99999 wrote:

joger wrote:

5.) I never saw a good crop optimized lens yet - from no manufacturer - so there is either no chance to do that (with the cost constraints in mind) or manufactures know that the crop fomart in DSLR is something that will be be over soon

Such a terribly wrong statement. Excellent crop-optimized lenses include:

Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8 fish-eye
Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8
Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8
Nikkor 35mm f/1.8
Tokina 50-135mm f/2.8

And they are all several times smaller than their FX equivalents.

Sorry - there is no big aperture lens within the selection

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joger
OP joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,835
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

photonius wrote:

A completely uninformed personal opinion....

Yes, mirror-less will take away from the crop lens sector once it takes off.

But, look at were mirror-less is going? Small and compact, ergo smaller sensors. APS-C sensors, and smaller, Canon will probably be a G1X like sensor. Look at Nikon, a tiny sensor.

What does that mean? Lots of new lenses that need to be designed for the wide angle range for these cameras, because the FF lenses are not wide enough due to the crop factor.

Ergo FF lenses alone will NEVER be the only type of lens in a manufacturers line-up.

well - I just showed my opinion - buy whatever suits you but don't expect Canon to invest in cheap and good crop lenses with large aperture.

FF is already too small for my taste but I get lenses I've never dreamed of and their performance is simply outstanding - if you can give me the same lenses (FOV and Aperture adapted) in the small format I am convinced.

Let me give you the list of lenses i own and translate it in crop - if you find me these lenses (and I am purely talking about lenses) I will accept that a crop system can be good

These are the lenses I own:

TS-E 17 f/4.0 => TS-E 11 f/2.6 (will never happen- market would be too small for a 3 k USD lens)

EF 40 STM f/2.8 => 25 f/2.0 (yes - that's feasible but I guess the price would be double or triple the 40 STM)

EF 70-200 f/4.0 L IS USM => 45 - 125 f/2.6 (not thinkable at all - too expensive and too heavy)

TS-E 90 f/2.8 => TS-E 60 f/1.8 (na - don't think it would be cheap or affordable in any way)

EF 135 f/2.0 L USM => 85 f/1.2 (exists but is double the price)

EF 300 f/2.8 L IS USM II => 200 f/1.8 (existed and was not cheaper at all)

For me it's all about the lenses (suitable for the sensor size)

The crop format has predominantly one reason - getting a cheaper setup - which is fine!!

But if you would want to have the same lenses in crop format optimized for the sensor size it would be even more expensive because almost none would buy it as long as people can buy the large sensor.

The cameras are simply not that much more expensive and when you invest 6 or 8 k USD in a tele lens - the price difference from crop to FF is simply not that important any more.

For me crop has it's huge niche in the cheap corner - which is fine and I have no hidden agenda here - it can be great saving weight and having still a good quality gear in the back pack but it will never reach the quality of FF or bigger because excellent glass is missing - and yes - I know that the 17-55 f/2.8 is nice but so is the new 24-70 and I am sure it will outperform the crop pendant by a mile - IS is not important for me - I own three tripods and can afford them too (just kidding)

I do most my work from tripod or monopod and I can shoot with the 5D II up to ISO 3200 with excellent results another fact that distracts me from the crop format.

For me it is a dead horse - I would snot bet on the crop format and I would not bet on DSLRs too - I guess we will soon see something different and it will be better in quality - maybe it is necessary to do that to have even more precision maybe not

here is a shot with my new 300 f2.8 II handheld in a restaurant at ISO 3200 and f/2.8 - if you can do that with crop I am willing to accept that the crop format is a serious contender - but the 200 f/1.8 is long gone and I do not even know if it had a 4 stop IS?

the 40 STM is a nice toy lens for me and in that respect it is just gorgeous - but it is nowhere near to the 135 f72.0 or the 300 f/2.8 or the TS-E 17 - which is for the given price more then o.k. I guess

btw - beer outsells wine in Germany by a huge margin - does this say anything about the quality or the taste - I like both - no need to flame me for that but I am simply not convinced that getting smaller is no clever idea when you're after quality.

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mmullen Veteran Member • Posts: 4,285
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

joger wrote:

I am simply not convinced that getting smaller is no clever idea when you're after quality.

Ahhhh....but by that measure why stop at 35mm FF? If it's all about ultimate quality medium format puts 35mm FF to shame.

The point is, a photographer only needs to go with a format that meets or slightly exceeds the requirements of the job with the most demanding requirements. It has been shown in the last few years that APS-C meets or exceeds the requirements of a large segment of professionals and most amateur requirements as well. If you have larger needs, by all means, move up the format scale. But why stop at FF 35mm when there is medium format?

Yes, the medium format equipment is a scale larger and more unwieldy (and also more expensive) but getting smaller is no clever idea when you are after ultimate quality, no?

  • Mike Mullen

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joger
OP joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,835
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

mmullen wrote:

joger wrote:

I am simply not convinced that getting smaller is no clever idea when you're after quality.

Ahhhh....but by that measure why stop at 35mm FF? If it's all about ultimate quality medium format puts 35mm FF to shame.

The point is, a photographer only needs to go with a format that meets or slightly exceeds the requirements of the job with the most demanding requirements. It has been shown in the last few years that APS-C meets or exceeds the requirements of a large segment of professionals and most amateur requirements as well. If you have larger needs, by all means, move up the format scale. But why stop at FF 35mm when there is medium format?

Yes, the medium format equipment is a scale larger and more unwieldy (and also more expensive) but getting smaller is no clever idea when you are after ultimate quality, no?

  • Mike Mullen

fully agree!!

Medium format or larger - can't afford it yet - but it's on my list - as soon as I have the extra 50 k USD for an Alpa plus some Schneider-Kreuznach lenses and a nice 80 MPixel back the 35 mm equipment will be used only for action and sports - there is simply no AF on the Alpa and no good digital tele lenses.

Horses for courses - I am completely with you

FF is a compromise - not where I would like to be but with the 35 k USD I've invested to date the best compromise for all sujets I personally shoot - just have a look in my dpreview gallary - I like the crisp and clean shots from tripod with MLU and stitched TS-E shots - just gorgeous - the new 300 mm lens is just insanely good - PhaseOne IQ 180 is on my wish list - maybe for some time to come - there is the real 5D II successor missing with a higher Megapixel count, the Iceland and Australia vacation and the sports exhaust for my Porsche and some photo events that must be payed - might take some time until I am there and then the 35 mm format might have come closer anyhow -

What I do right now is I use a virtual medium format - form frames fully shifted with the TS-E lenses and then recombined in PS to a virtual sensor format of some 56x36 mm (almost exceeding medium format with 50 Mpixel)

This is one example with the TS-E 90 lens at f/2.8

and the detail in 100 %

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joger
OP joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,835
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

and here is the photozone test - very sweeeeet!!

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mmullen Veteran Member • Posts: 4,285
Re: EF 40 STM - my 1st impressions (sweeet) ;-)

joger wrote:

FF is a compromise - not where I would like to be but with the 35 k USD I've invested to date the best compromise for all sujets I personally shoot - just have a look in my dpreview gallary

Having reviewed your gallery images I can say two things. 1) I did not see any images that could not be met or exceeded using a 7D. Many of your close-ups could be vastly improved with more depth of field (the reptile in the 300mm f/2.8 gallery is a prime example). 2) Don't waste your money on expensive medium format gear. Your images will improve more if you concentrate less on gear and more on technique and concept.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but it is sincere advice and gushing about how much better FF is compared to APS-C (or how FF is not very good compared to medium format) is what instigated these comments.

Certainly FF and even medium format has a place in modern photography, I'm just not convinced either format offers compelling advantages in terms of satisfying the needs of most photographers. Photography is about creating images. Larger formats are only needed if your specialty is making extra large high resolution images. Most of us (yourself included) are not fully using the capabilities offered by modern APS-C cameras. Furthermore, the impact of an image has much more to do with composition, color and light/dark than it does with whether it was made with APS-C or a $50,000 medium format setup.

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Mike Mullen

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