RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

Started Jun 21, 2012 | Discussions
tomtom50 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,244
RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

RX100 ISO3200 NR off converted by Sony Image Converter

G1X ISO3200 NR off DNG Converter

RX100

G1X

Amazingly close.

 tomtom50's gear list:tomtom50's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS M Sony Alpha NEX-3N Sony a6000
Sony RX100
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jimr Forum Pro • Posts: 11,405
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

Agreed. Amazingly close....

I'd like to hear (see) how good the new Sony Whitemagic LCD on the RX 100 is.

Would be wonderful IF it works well enough in bright light so that an OV would not be missed at all. Unlike an OV, its would be much better...

Sir Punk Regular Member • Posts: 439
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

i know this is just a pixel peeping exercise but I can't think of many situations where i would shoot at ISO 3200 and 1/800 shutter speed and F4.8. I am more interested in real life results.

Dimitri Khoz Contributing Member • Posts: 943
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

Sir Punk wrote:

i know this is just a pixel peeping exercise but I can't think of many situations where i would shoot at ISO 3200 and 1/800 shutter speed and F4.8. I am more interested in real life results.

Unfortunately we do not have enough real-life RAW pictures yet.

From JPEGs one can tell that

noise starts straight from ISO125 in the shadows

100% image crops

and noise artefacts start from ISO640

look at the yellow spots from the upper-left corner of the image

Also there will be some purple fringing in high-contrast areas
which will be hard to correct.

ASR45
ASR45 Forum Pro • Posts: 37,303
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

Nice one.
--
Alan.

 ASR45's gear list:ASR45's gear list
Canon EF 100-400mm F4.5-5.6L IS II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon 6D Mark II Nikon AF Nikkor 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D ED VR Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM +10 more
ASR45
ASR45 Forum Pro • Posts: 37,303
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

Nice one.
--
Alan.

 ASR45's gear list:ASR45's gear list
Canon EF 100-400mm F4.5-5.6L IS II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon 6D Mark II Nikon AF Nikkor 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D ED VR Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM +10 more
Dimitri Khoz Contributing Member • Posts: 943
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

Here is how RX100 ISO3200 shots will look like in
real life in the hands of bad fotographer

100% crop from original

Panorama made by stitching photosin-camera using special scenery mode

I am sure in RAW it would look better.

trale Senior Member • Posts: 1,159
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

If I'm reading this correctly, does it appear that Rx100's images have barely any chroma noise?

Unless something was off, based off of this comparison, it seems the RX100 actually has a slight edge over the G1X - sharper overall, less chroma noise, but coarser luminance noise. Anyone else see this?

If so, that is truly mind-blowing considering I was expecting the G1X to trounce the RX100 at ISO 1600 and above (by close to 1 stop)

tomtom50 wrote:

RX100 ISO3200 NR off converted by Sony Image Converter
G1X ISO3200 NR off DNG Converter
RX100
G1X

Amazingly close.

PaulRivers Veteran Member • Posts: 7,420
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

trale wrote:

If I'm reading this correctly, does it appear that Rx100's images have barely any chroma noise?

Unless something was off, based off of this comparison, it seems the RX100 actually has a slight edge over the G1X - sharper overall, less chroma noise, but coarser luminance noise. Anyone else see this?

If so, that is truly mind-blowing considering I was expecting the G1X to trounce the RX100 at ISO 1600 and above (by close to 1 stop)

Don't jump to to many conclusions - the complete lack of color noise in the Sony pic simply makes me think that turning noise reduction "off" doesn't really turn it all the way off, and that color noise reduction is still applied anyways - possibly baked into the raw file by the camera itself.

dpreview has noted that many cameras now bake a small amount of noise reduction into the raw file, regardless of what settings you use.

Rob Vermaas Contributing Member • Posts: 946
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

Yes grapes are sour ain't they?

No matter what tricks you pull out your sleeve to bash the RX100, initial results just show this will be " a killer camera"
Regards,
Rob

 Rob Vermaas's gear list:Rob Vermaas's gear list
Sony RX100 II Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Sony a77 II Sony a7 II +14 more
BertIverson Veteran Member • Posts: 4,347
Paul -- Re: baked in NR in raw

PaulRivers wrote:

Don't jump to to many conclusions - the complete lack of color noise in the Sony pic simply makes me think that turning noise reduction "off" doesn't really turn it all the way off, and that color noise reduction is still applied anyways - possibly baked into the raw file by the camera itself.

dpreview has noted that many cameras now bake a small amount of noise reduction into the raw file, regardless of what settings you use.

Paul

You may very well be correct that there is HW/FW noise reduction baked into the raw file in the RX100 (and other cameras). However, what difference does it make if the engineers decided that this methodology gives the best image results.

Maybe they stuck a little quantum level capacitor on each photo site inside the sensor chip to reduce noise. This HW NR could not be turned off by the user. (just some nonsense by me as I know nothing about sensor design)
Cheers,
Bert

 BertIverson's gear list:BertIverson's gear list
Sony RX10 IV
jimr Forum Pro • Posts: 11,405
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

You noticed the desperation from some?

Rob Vermaas wrote:

Yes grapes are sour ain't they?

No matter what tricks you pull out your sleeve to bash the RX100, initial results just show this will be " a killer camera"
Regards,
Rob

ck3
ck3 Senior Member • Posts: 2,925
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

trale wrote:

If I'm reading this correctly, does it appear that Rx100's images have barely any chroma noise?

Unless something was off, based off of this comparison, it seems the RX100 actually has a slight edge over the G1X - sharper overall, less chroma noise, but coarser luminance noise. Anyone else see this?

If so, that is truly mind-blowing considering I was expecting the G1X to trounce the RX100 at ISO 1600 and above (by close to 1 stop)

The images have been converted with two different converters which IMO invalidates the comparison.

Furthermore the workings of the NR settings in Sony's IDC are a bit of a mystery. IDC usually reads out the jpeg camera settings (saturation, contrast etc.) and applies them as a default for the raw conversion (that is, the "0" value of the saturation slider depends on what your camera setting was) - don't know if that applies for NR as well, though.

OP tomtom50 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,244
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

ck3 wrote:

The images have been converted with two different converters which IMO invalidates the comparison.

I do not have single program that will decode both files. The current Adobe DNG converter will not accept RX100 files. I can agree this is not perfect, but invalidates is a strong word.

Furthermore the workings of the NR settings in Sony's IDC are a bit of a mystery. IDC usually reads out the jpeg camera settings (saturation, contrast etc.) and applies them as a default for the raw conversion (that is, the "0" value of the saturation slider depends on what your camera setting was) - don't know if that applies for NR as well, though.

I agree the low chroma noise stands out. In the Image Data Converter's NR setting there is an "off" radio button. Clicking it bombs the program every time. I had to manually set all three sliders to zero. The color NR slider was indeed set to zero. There is no way to know if zero is truly zero. It should be, but we all know program settings are at times opaque and even misleading.

Anyone is invited to do the comparison any other way they can get to work.

 tomtom50's gear list:tomtom50's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS M Sony Alpha NEX-3N Sony a6000
ck3
ck3 Senior Member • Posts: 2,925
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

tomtom50 wrote:

I do not have single program that will decode both files. The current Adobe DNG converter will not accept RX100 files. I can agree this is not perfect, but invalidates is a strong word.

Invalidates in so far as you cannot control for the crucial variable "raw converter" - is the difference (or lack of difference) due to the converter chosen or to the quality of the sensor?

I agree the low chroma noise stands out. In the Image Data Converter's NR setting there is an "off" radio button. Clicking it bombs the program every time. I had to manually set all three sliders to zero. The color NR slider was indeed set to zero. There is no way to know if zero is truly zero. It should be, but we all know program settings are at times opaque and even misleading.

Anyone is invited to do the comparison any other way they can get to work.

I'd say we have to be patient and wait until the RX100's raw files are supported by a more commonly used program. IDC is about the worst choice if you want to make a controlled comparison.

shlam Regular Member • Posts: 248
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

We can argue about all the finer points, but it is clear to me that:

  • From an IQ point of view, the RX100 is much closer to the G1X than the S100.

  • From a size point of view, the RX100 is much closer to the S100 than the G1X.

Seems like the RX100 is perfectly positioned...

Thanks to the OP for taking the time to do this.

OP tomtom50 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,244
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

shlam wrote:

  • From an IQ point of view, the RX100 is much closer to the G1X than the S100.

  • From a size point of view, the RX100 is much closer to the S100 than the G1X.

Yes.

 tomtom50's gear list:tomtom50's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS M Sony Alpha NEX-3N Sony a6000
Dimitri Khoz Contributing Member • Posts: 943
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

shlam wrote:

We can argue about all the finer points, but it is clear to me that:

  • From an IQ point of view, the RX100 is much closer to the G1X than the S100.

  • From a size point of view, the RX100 is much closer to the S100 than the G1X.

Seems like the RX100 is perfectly positioned...

Thanks to the OP for taking the time to do this.

Actually from an HighISO IQ point of view, the RX100 is pretty much the same as Nikon 1.

From a size point of view, the RX100 is almost the same as Olympus XZ-1.

shlam Regular Member • Posts: 248
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

Dimitri Khoz wrote:

From a size point of view, the RX100 is almost the same as Olympus XZ-1.

From the dpreview comparision, the XZ-1 is bigger than the RX100 %wise than the RX100 compared to the S100:

(bounding box volume)
XZ-1 = 144% of RX100
RX100 = 131% of S100

The only significant difference between RX100 and S100 is that RX100 is 33% thicker. The XZ-1 is 10-15% bigger than the RX100 in every dimension. The XZ-1 also does not have an integrated lens cap.

Dimitri Khoz Contributing Member • Posts: 943
Re: RX100 vs. G1X ISO 3200 RAW comparison, NR off

shlam wrote:

Dimitri Khoz wrote:

From a size point of view, the RX100 is almost the same as Olympus XZ-1.

The only significant difference between RX100 and S100 is that RX100 is 33% thicker.
The XZ-1 is 10-15% bigger than the RX100 in every dimension.

It is the thickness of the camera
that prevents us to put it in the tight pockets of jeans and shirts.

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