My full review of the new X2 is up!

Started May 11, 2012 | Discussions
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Wellington100 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,594
Re: Ming the Merciful

Ming Thein wrote:

The image quality DOES excel the competition. That's enough to make it worth looking at.

Name calling is both rude and uncalled for.

Sorry, I was trying to be amusing, I did not wish to offend you and I do apologise.

Wellington100 wrote:

You are being very generous about a camera that for its price point should excel or at the very least equal the competition. Leica is known for premium products at premium prices.

This camera has not kept up to date with the state of play in the premium compact sector. In some ways it is already three years out of date. Why on earth would anyone buy it when the Canon G1X is available for far less money and is better in every way.

I hope Leica have something else up their sleeves, this camera is a non event.
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Ming Thein OP Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
Re: Ming the Merciful

No problem. Sometimes it's hard to tell with the internet, and other posters like a certain person in the above part of the thread...

Wellington100 wrote:

Ming Thein wrote:

The image quality DOES excel the competition. That's enough to make it worth looking at.

Name calling is both rude and uncalled for.

Sorry, I was trying to be amusing, I did not wish to offend you and I do apologise.

Wellington100 wrote:

You are being very generous about a camera that for its price point should excel or at the very least equal the competition. Leica is known for premium products at premium prices.

This camera has not kept up to date with the state of play in the premium compact sector. In some ways it is already three years out of date. Why on earth would anyone buy it when the Canon G1X is available for far less money and is better in every way.

I hope Leica have something else up their sleeves, this camera is a non event.
--

S100 (MIA), S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11 (Retired), F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1

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Leica Camera brand ambassador and NPS member.
Portfolio and photographic musings at http://www.blog.mingthein.com

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S100 (MIA), S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11 (Retired), F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1

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streeteyes Regular Member • Posts: 207
Re: Ming the Merciful

Hi Ming,

Nice review. Just curious though. Two cameras with (what I surmise are) two equal sensors. Have you any experience with Sony's NEX 5N and its EVF (3MP I believe...same as the EVF in the A65 and A77 cameras) and their 24mm Zeiss f1.8?

If you have I'd love to hear your thoughts on the IQ of the two. I know 'control-wise' the simplicity of the X2 will beat the NEX 5N hands down (although the NEX 5N does have some nice tricks up it's electronic sleeve). But what about the bottom line of image?

Thanks
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PJ711 Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Ming the Merciful

It sounds like a pretty good camera if the AF is sorted out. The image quality in the X1 was superb, it was the AF and overall slow operation that made it leave my hands.

Ming is right that the sensor-lens pairing is vitally important. The X1 had it just right.

Problem is of course that the other available options have moved far forward in the past couple of years. You can get the same Sony sensor, which is probably the best in the world right now other than a full frame, in several other mirrorless offerings for a lot less money, and more importantly with more flexibility. The Pentax K-01 with a trio of fine pancake lenses (equivalent to 24mm, 32mm and 60mm) will still cost less and give you superb IQ. Frankly I can't see a difference in files taken with the K-o1 and my old X1. The Nex5 uses the same sensor as well, I believe.

All that may be irrelevant IF the camera did fix the annoying flaws in the X1.

Ming Thein OP Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
I can't comment.

Haven't shot the NEX 5N enough to know it's image quality, and the Zeiss 24/1.8 is something I handled for half an hour or so. Wouldn't be fair on either camera.

What I do know is that the EVF on the Sony cameras definitely appears sharper to my eyes, though there's not a lot in it. Both frankly don't deal with dynamic range in a satisfying way - high contrast scenes block up too fast, and black is never really black - so neither will replace an optical finder, especially in low light. But both are 'good enough'.

I prefer the controls of the X1 to the NEX5 I owned, but I never shot extensively with the NEX5N - presumably its touch panel must make life a bit easier; it certainly does on my OM-D. I find myself wishing the D800E had it, actually.

streeteyes wrote:

Hi Ming,

Nice review. Just curious though. Two cameras with (what I surmise are) two equal sensors. Have you any experience with Sony's NEX 5N and its EVF (3MP I believe...same as the EVF in the A65 and A77 cameras) and their 24mm Zeiss f1.8?

If you have I'd love to hear your thoughts on the IQ of the two. I know 'control-wise' the simplicity of the X2 will beat the NEX 5N hands down (although the NEX 5N does have some nice tricks up it's electronic sleeve). But what about the bottom line of image?

Thanks
--
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drpix
drpix Regular Member • Posts: 286
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

Fantastic review. Superb pics. At last somebody who knows something about photography. I´ve been beta testing Leica products as well - for the Scandinavian market, will do it soon. One question: does X2 still have this horrible apreture chatter and is stopping down continuously? It´s difficult to influence German besser-vissers, ha ha. Cheers!
Andrzej
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snake_b Veteran Member • Posts: 4,680
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

This is a funny post, actually.

drpix wrote:

Fantastic review. Superb pics. At last somebody who knows something about photography.* I´ve been beta testing Leica products as well* - for the Scandinavian market, will do it soon. One question: does X2 still have this horrible apreture chatter and is stopping down continuously? It´s difficult to influence German besser-vissers, ha ha. Cheers!
Andrzej
http://www.audiomix.se/photo

drpix
drpix Regular Member • Posts: 286
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

Whats´s so funny? Enlighten me!
Andrzej
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ulfie Veteran Member • Posts: 3,299
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

Ming, A simple question (well at least I think it's simple) from a non-pro who prefers jpeg output: Which renders the most accurate colors/hues especially skin tones and contrast, the X1 or X2?

Both seem to offer more than enough resolution/detail for non-professional use.

Thanks in advance, ulfie

vbhr Forum Member • Posts: 71
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

Sorry if it's been answered elsewhere but quantifiably speaking, how much faster is the X2 to the X1?

e.g. indoor autofocus at dusk. The X1 can hunt around for ages if you let it.

What other specific relative speed increases would you say contributes to your much more positive view?

Maybe I'll upgrade, maybe I won't this time around, but speed is the #1 demerit of the X1 (though usually it's nothing beyond a minor irritation for my uses), and it'll be good to know. Thanks.

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snake_b Veteran Member • Posts: 4,680
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

Your "unbiased" post and support for Leica, despite you mentioning you're a Leica tester.

LULZ to be had.

drpix wrote:

Whats´s so funny? Enlighten me!
Andrzej
http://www.audiomix.se/photo

drpix
drpix Regular Member • Posts: 286
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

What are you raving about? What ubiased opinion?

I have only expressed my admirarion for this guy´s review (as objectiv as can be) and asked him a simple question.
Andrzej
http://www.audiomix.se/photo

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snake_b Veteran Member • Posts: 4,680
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

Exactly.

drpix wrote:

What are you raving about? What ubiased opinion?

I have only expressed my admirarion for this guy´s review (as objectiv as can be) and asked him a simple question.
Andrzej
http://www.audiomix.se/photo

tinternaut Veteran Member • Posts: 7,204
Re: Good review, great photos

As to the camera itself, the single biggest improvement is the inclusion of the accessory port and the EVF they will sell alongside it. Those of you who buy this camera and who've not looked into this particular EVF before, are in for a treat.

That said...... Like the X1, I'm not seeing a value proposition (i.e. something to justify the inevitable red dot markup). With the M9, the S2 and even the Monochrom, the value proposition is easy enough to see. With this X2, there are better cameras in the same space and no real USP other than the name.

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zeepyOne New Member • Posts: 12
Re: Good review, great photos

There is still one advantage, size, it is light and pocketable. Fuji, Sony or Olympus are bigger and the lens sticks out.

Irakly Shanidze
Irakly Shanidze Veteran Member • Posts: 4,540
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

excellent review
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Daedalus2000
Daedalus2000 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,381
Re: I'm brand agnostic.

How can you say that you are brand agnostic when your signature says "Leica Camera brand ambassador"?

Very nice review by the way.

D

Ming Thein wrote:

I run four systems. If it's a spade, I'll call it a spade - I'll use the best tool for the job, regardless of whatever it is.

I didn't think the X1 was useable for street work because it was a) slow to focus; b) slow to manually focus; c) battery didn't last long; d) sensor wasn't good enough to stop down all the way and guestimate distances - the distance indicator/ DOF scales are nowhere near as good as what you get on a say an M lens. The X2 is much better because of a combination of flip up EVF, focusing speed, and sensor.

You're talking about saggital coma, I think. I still see it on the X2 - it's the same lens.

janlu wrote:

very nice review and pleasant reading...... I also appreciate your sincerity as Leica ambassador in stating that the lens doesn't perform so well at F2.8 with the new sensor.... This X2 is for sure an improved X1, but i can't see in it a big step since i have never found my X1 unusable .

On the night shot wide-open on the X1 i have always noted a decentered Halo around the lights to sides of the frame ...not in the center though , ( i.e. street-lamps etc...) ..... do you experienced it with the X2 .... the lens is supposed to be exactly the same... .. or not ?

BTW i have also liked very much the Seascapes essay !!

Best regards, Gianluca
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Ming Thein OP Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
Because...

...I run four different systems, and am an NPS member?

I work with Leica because they recognize that whilst exclusivity is great for marketing, it isn't so great for credibility. There are times I prefer to use my Nikons, or my M4/3 gear, or something else, and times I use the Leicas. I use the best tool for the job - the final yardstick for me is client delivery, not who sponsors the cameras (if at all).

Daedalus2000 wrote:

How can you say that you are brand agnostic when your signature says "Leica Camera brand ambassador"?

Very nice review by the way.

D

Ming Thein wrote:

I run four systems. If it's a spade, I'll call it a spade - I'll use the best tool for the job, regardless of whatever it is.

I didn't think the X1 was useable for street work because it was a) slow to focus; b) slow to manually focus; c) battery didn't last long; d) sensor wasn't good enough to stop down all the way and guestimate distances - the distance indicator/ DOF scales are nowhere near as good as what you get on a say an M lens. The X2 is much better because of a combination of flip up EVF, focusing speed, and sensor.

You're talking about saggital coma, I think. I still see it on the X2 - it's the same lens.

janlu wrote:

very nice review and pleasant reading...... I also appreciate your sincerity as Leica ambassador in stating that the lens doesn't perform so well at F2.8 with the new sensor.... This X2 is for sure an improved X1, but i can't see in it a big step since i have never found my X1 unusable .

On the night shot wide-open on the X1 i have always noted a decentered Halo around the lights to sides of the frame ...not in the center though , ( i.e. street-lamps etc...) ..... do you experienced it with the X2 .... the lens is supposed to be exactly the same... .. or not ?

BTW i have also liked very much the Seascapes essay !!

Best regards, Gianluca
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gianlucanardini/

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Ming Thein OP Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!

I'm also an NPS member, Nikon tester and run four different systems. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to make objective comments.

You've once said this is a gear forum. So fine, keep your comments to gear, and stop attacking me personally. It's rude, unprofessional, and frankly, makes you look bad.

snake_b wrote:

Your "unbiased" post and support for Leica, despite you mentioning you're a Leica tester.

LULZ to be had.

drpix wrote:

Whats´s so funny? Enlighten me!
Andrzej
http://www.audiomix.se/photo

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Ming Thein OP Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
I don't have the timing gear for this...

...but subjectively, I think it's at least 50% faster. Enough to make the difference between impatience and just being able to get the shot with no fuss.

Put it this way: I sold my X1 because it was too slow. I don't think the X2 is too slow (it's not the fastest either though, that's the OM-D.)

vbhr wrote:

Sorry if it's been answered elsewhere but quantifiably speaking, how much faster is the X2 to the X1?

e.g. indoor autofocus at dusk. The X1 can hunt around for ages if you let it.

What other specific relative speed increases would you say contributes to your much more positive view?

Maybe I'll upgrade, maybe I won't this time around, but speed is the #1 demerit of the X1 (though usually it's nothing beyond a minor irritation for my uses), and it'll be good to know. Thanks.

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