Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

Started May 10, 2012 | Discussions
antoineb Veteran Member • Posts: 6,650
you seem a bit mis-informed sorry

let's see:

  • you write "The D7000 AFs fine in video mode"

Ooops, no, sorry. The D700's CDAF is veeerrrrryyyy slooooow and can't be used while filming. It's also so poorly done that even when it has focus and the target doesn't move and neither does the camera, it often decides to do a check and in so doing, moves way OUT of focus. It's pathetic.

And of course while attempting to AF it also makes big noises that are picked up by the camera's poor mono mike.

So all in all, in video, and unless you shoot manual focus and use the external microphone, the D7k is pathetic, and clearly behind most smartphones or compact cameras.

  • I never said the IQ on the D7k was "as good as" the D800 IQ.

But clearly, unless shooting conditions are perfect, and the AF has been perfectly tuned, the IQ on the D800 won't be significantly better if at all.

Not to mention on DP Review test shots where they use f11 where diffraction is big enough that a 36mp sensor has barely any advantage.

  • the D800 does not have "significantly better" high ISO performance. Even a D7k is quite good up to ISO 3200, and can deliver quite decent results up to ISO 400 or maybe 5000. So maybe the D800 is as good at ISO 6400. Does it really matter? If most of your shooting is done in jazz clubs maybe.

  • say what you want about smartphones. The FACT is that they cover most people's photo needs, and are always with you so that many pros like them, and even organise exhibits of shots done only with their iPhone. I say "fact" because compact cameras are shrinking - why bother with an extra device whose IQ won't be better than that of the phone you already have with you.

Sure mirrorless is also taking share but it's expensive and again you do need an extra device and charger and lenses - so same inconvenient "solution", only a tad smaller.

  • I love to photograph. I simply find that my D7k even coupled to great glass, is big and bulky and heavy and so gets in the way and so often stays home. Some people, actually not very many people, are happy to lug big things just to take a photograph. I hate it - even though I DO sometimes manage nice portraits with my 85mm f1.4G.

  • I think PDAF stinks: if I enjoy photography, why should I have to waste time fine-tuning the AF, per lens, and the result won't even be perfect because in theory one should have a different adjustment for different distances, and for different focal lengths in the case of a zoom. Come ON! I then pick up my iPhone or my compact superzoom, and wow, focus is always perfect and I didn't need to spend time fine-tuning it! Wow!

You claim I'm wrong. If you're right, then we should:

  • see the share of iPhone photos drop on various hosting sites, such as Flickr. But the opposite is actually happening

  • see the market share of DSLRs, in the overall photo market, grow - but it's actually shrinking

 antoineb's gear list:antoineb's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Olympus TG-610 Nikon D7000 +5 more
antoineb Veteran Member • Posts: 6,650
the D800 focuses while filming - what a joke?

I've read reviews, sorry: the D800 has a slooow CDAF in LV, and thus can't film with AF, and makes funny noises while attempting the thing.

But, yes, the GH2 can achieve that wonderful feat! Funny, camcorders, even those with large-ish sensors, have been doing this forever.

P.S. I know that most serious films are shot in MF - but they require rehearsed actor and camera movements, and there's one full-time person just in charge of the focus. And even so, some scenes do include things unwillingly going out of focus at times.

 antoineb's gear list:antoineb's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Olympus TG-610 Nikon D7000 +5 more
marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: the D800 focuses while filming - what a joke?

antoineb wrote:

I've read reviews, sorry: the D800 has a slooow CDAF in LV, and thus can't film with AF, and makes funny noises while attempting the thing.

You read the reviews, but I have a D800, and I use AF quite a bit when I don't feel like bringing my follow focus with me. It does at least as well as the GH2, probably better because it doesn't hunt nearly as much. And I'm not basing any of these thoughts on reviews, I have both cameras.

With the D800 one could conceivably use only AF for certain films/home movies. In video mode if AFs significantly better than any previous Nikons like the D7000. Some DSLR makers like Canon don't even attempt to implement AF in video mode. Nikon has done a great job with CDAF on the D800. What you are not understanding is with a large sensor DSLR, especially a FF, DOF is great. Like a GoPro, and iPhone doesn't really have to focus much at all as the sensor is so tiny DOF is enormous so everything is in focus all the time. That's not photography and that's not videography. If there is no separation of the subject and the background the video looks like garbage. Why do you think no serious videographer uses small sensor camcorders anymore. They are all using DSLRs or pro video cameras with Super 35 sensors like Sony F3, RED, or Canon C300. Video from these cameras look cinematic, video from cheesy camcorders and iPhones looks, well like video.

But, yes, the GH2 can achieve that wonderful feat! Funny, camcorders, even those with large-ish sensors, have been doing this forever.

GH2 hunts all the time in AF. Not sure what you're talking about. Anyone who uses a GH2 has it on a rig, tripod or stabilizer, and is using MF. Why? Because the continuous hunting and noise from the lenses can ruin the take.

P.S. I know that most serious films are shot in MF - but they require rehearsed actor and camera movements, and there's one full-time person just in charge of the focus. And even so, some scenes do include things unwillingly going out of focus at times.

Yet you remain focused on AF (no pun intended) as if it were important. Canon didn't even think it was worth it to implement AF, as it knew most users would be using MF. Still, of the DSLRs that do AF, the D800 is one of the best I've ever used, and that includes the GH2 (though it's not technically a DSLR).

Anyway, this is most likely the most boring, off-topic side digression ever, and as I have better things to do than defend a D800 from someone who has never even used one, see ya. I'll be posting a link to a short video I'm finishing now, and you tell me if the AF seems sloooooow or noisy. I can tell you, with the lenses I have, it's neither.

 marike6's gear list:marike6's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Nikon D800 Fujifilm X-E1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +7 more
studio311 Contributing Member • Posts: 553
Re: What I've gathered from reports here...

OP...thanks for sharing this. It brings clarity for my options.

I too have the AF issue. After sending sample images that clearly show a significant problem, Nikon USA responded. They didn't acknowledge looking at my images or that there is any problem with my D800. They did suggest I send in the camera for service. Why would I do that if they won't acknowledge there's an issue?!?

I also provided links to Nikonians and Lumo labs where further tests reconfirmed the issue. Lumo Labs posted Nikon had a calibration "fix" as "Breaking News". Nikon USA directly responded to that claim of "Breaking News".... saying there is no known issue or fix.

At least one person had their D800 serviced in the Netherlands with fantastic results. Many others seem to get their D800 back with the problem unresolved...and they're out $125 for insured shipping.

I'm done. After clicking "post", I'm calling Amazon to get a return authorization and refund....if it isn't too late.

Fantastic IQ...a shame.

Robin Casady wrote:

There was a report from Europe that the AF problem was fixed by software the service center downloaded from Nikon a few days ago. I got the impression that this was calibration software, not camera firmware. So, this issue may just be getting resolved at Nikon.

I wonder what Nikon does with the cameras that are returned for replacement, rather than for repair?
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

studio311 Contributing Member • Posts: 553
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

tach32000 wrote:

Your putting yourself through a lot of extra stress and wasted time. It stinks they were shipped with this issue, but...

Do yourself a favor and send it to the Nikon Service Center and they will fix the issue.

Tach...for me, that's the question...will they fix the issue? So far, other than in the Netherlands, it "appears" they are NOT fixing it...returning cameras to owners with the issue unresolved.

Nikon USA asked me for images to demonstrate the issue...and then never acknowledged looking at them in the responses to me. Are they just unwilling to publicly acknowledge the issue but suggest I send in my camera ? I have no idea.

studio460
studio460 Contributing Member • Posts: 712
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

Dominique Dierick wrote:

Neither is complaining in a dpreview forum for weeks of course or try out 5 D800's in a week, without even willing to discuss method or tests done.

I'm not here to have anyone vet my testing methodology, nor am I asking anyone to "prove" theirs. I made direct comparisons with the same lenses using my D3s and the suspect D800. The results were convincing enough for me--overwhelmingly so. With the 24mm f/1.4G mounted on my D3s, 99% of my left-AF acquisitions were spot-on. With the same lens on the D800, 0% of left-focus point acquisitions were correctly focused. Zero-percent.

I am not here to whine without purpose. I am attempting to communicate with other owners to determine which service centers have successfully/unsuccessfully repaired their affected D800s, and gather other information related to the issue.

studio460
studio460 Contributing Member • Posts: 712
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

And, if I were lucky enough to have acquired an unaffected D800e, I would be out shooting with it right now, and certainly wouldn't be wasting my time here. And, regardless, I certainly wouldn't be spending any time here for any reason, posting comments critical of others' testing methodologies. I mean, why waste your time? Who cares?

MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,152
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

JoeR wrote:

Chris wrote:

Seriously? Have you considered a tutor for your bad spelling?

And compulsive disorder. Joe needs that too.

I mean, what a way to feel sorry for what you're going through.
--
Thierry

 TOF guy's gear list:TOF guy's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D850 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
Art Jacks Senior Member • Posts: 2,956
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

I don't think yours and others testing methods are being questioned but for new D800 owners like me a visual example of the results you are getting would be an aid when I do my own testing, some of the replies have been long on words and short on photographs showing the faults, photography is a visual medium after all
--

A selection of my images can be found at http://www.photo-genesis.net follow the galleries link then select the Jacks gallery

Dominique Dierick Veteran Member • Posts: 4,494
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

and in UK, and in Germany, and in France as it seems from the reports here in the meantime. Seems service centers in Europe are more up to speed with this?

-- hide signature --

Nikon NPS member
D3s/D800/450D-IR/60Da/LX5

 Dominique Dierick's gear list:Dominique Dierick's gear list
Fujifilm X100S
Dominique Dierick Veteran Member • Posts: 4,494
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

I was definitely not referring to you, but to the original message, relax.

studio460 wrote:

Dominique Dierick wrote:

Neither is complaining in a dpreview forum for weeks of course or try out 5 D800's in a week, without even willing to discuss method or tests done.

I'm not here to have anyone vet my testing methodology, nor am I asking anyone to "prove" theirs. I made direct comparisons with the same lenses using my D3s and the suspect D800. The results were convincing enough for me--overwhelmingly so. With the 24mm f/1.4G mounted on my D3s, 99% of my left-AF acquisitions were spot-on. With the same lens on the D800, 0% of left-focus point acquisitions were correctly focused. Zero-percent.

I am not here to whine without purpose. I am attempting to communicate with other owners to determine which service centers have successfully/unsuccessfully repaired their affected D800s, and gather other information related to the issue.

-- hide signature --

Nikon NPS member
D3s/D800/450D-IR/60Da/LX5

 Dominique Dierick's gear list:Dominique Dierick's gear list
Fujifilm X100S
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads