Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

Started May 10, 2012 | Discussions
Dominique Dierick Veteran Member • Posts: 4,494
YOU may have a credibility problem at hand

At first I thought your question was genuine, but the posting history and this answer makes me think you may run into a credibility problem.

First of all, let me assure you we are not all idiots as you seem to imply with this phrase:

'I find it hard to believe that there are people out there that have camera's that are not affected by this AF issue. Either they haven't checked, or are unaware.'

Looking at your timeline, an incredible fortune to find 5 D800's in 10 days, an incredible misfortune to have them all fail.

Ordered 10 (!!!!) from Amazon in Feb (posted April 20), was still waiting for a D800 (April 24 - 26), did not yet get one from Pro Photo (Arpril 30), finally got one there May 01, found assumed AF problem with tabletop pics (May 02), returned it, canceled some outstanding D800 order (May 05), wrote you got your 4th faulty D800 (May 07) from various stores 'testing them all extensively' and returned them all for refund, and on May 10 gets your fifth D800 with problems.

Indeed waiting it out seems the better idea.

-- hide signature --

Nikon NPS member
D3s/D800/450D-IR/60Da/LX5

 Dominique Dierick's gear list:Dominique Dierick's gear list
Fujifilm X100S
antoineb Veteran Member • Posts: 6,627
how credible is it that you get all those D800's ;-)

if I read correctly, in one paragraph you mention that you have returned your second D800. And in another paragraph you say "like all the other D800's I have had".

sorry, with a camera that is in such short supply, then as far as I'm concerned this rules your credibility out.

as far as the (purported) issue per se, my reaction is:

  • high res sensors make it appear ever more clearly how obsolete PDAF is for the digital age

  • it is nevertheless totally unacceptable that anyone paying over $3'000 for a mere camera body, should end up having to harbour tons of worries around whether the AF is good enough. Because in the meantime users of an iPhone or other smartphone, or any compact camera, or any mirrorless camera, are getting always very precise AF that needs zero adjustment and is lens-indpendent. Still these people paid only very small amounts of money for their cameras - so what gives?

  • the 36mp images from the D800 in best shooting conditions do look nice (and so should thez at this price for the body plus lenses, and how inconvenient and heavy the whole gear is). But they're not that different from what one can get from a D7k or a D5100 or a 60D or a NEX-7, and neither is the resolution that much higher when you're comparing 36mp with 24mp.

  • when I read all this, it becomes ever clearer to me that after my D7000 bought in 2010, I will NEVER buy another DSLR again. My next big system camera - IF I ever buy one because it may well be that further progress in the iPhone fulfill 99.9% of my photo needs - will be MIRRORLESS and use the more civilized CDAF.

 antoineb's gear list:antoineb's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Olympus TG-610 Nikon D7000 +5 more
GMack Senior Member • Posts: 2,928
Re: YOU may have a credibility problem at hand

Does sound fishy, huh?

What dealer has 5 D800's sitting around to exchange, much less on a daily or even weekly basis? Mine cannot even get enough in to satisfy the down payment orders and maybe only one a week which lasts for as long as the guy takes to get there to pick it up.

Aside, I am not in favor of returning for another of the same lot. Dealers will sell the thing again in some form (eBay, repackaged, open box, refurb, new, auction, whatever - They ain't gonna fix it as they are cheap and it costs them.) and we may end up reading about the same item again. Just send the thing in and get a second pair of quality control eyes to examine it and hopefully fix it. If not, then do it again until they give you a new one. I've sent in one body and two brand new lenses last year and no issues with the fixes, and one took newer parts in the new lens too.

Com'on. Five D800 cameras exchanged? What dealer has them all so I can get one if they are that plentiful there? Heck. I'll make an offer on one of your returns and send it in to Nikon.

Mack

Richard Spangler Contributing Member • Posts: 913
Re: how credible is it that you get all those D800's ;-)

Yea try shooting anything that moves with an iPhone. Sorry ill take a dslr anyday over mirrowless. I hate shooting with an LCD screen. I love looking through the viewfinder and hearing the click. Yes some of us will have to send our camera to Nikon to software calibrate the focal points as it seems they left this out when originally shipping the cameras but that is the price early adopters pay.

Cenk
Cenk Senior Member • Posts: 1,608
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

+1

Michael Otis wrote:

I'm always surprised by how so many people go out an purchase new model releases and then complain about their camera having problems. Why not wait a few months till the bugs have been worked out, the reviews and field test done, and then buy the camera. Every new Nikon, Canon, Fugi , etc when first released have had some problems... just wait.
Magpie

 Cenk's gear list:Cenk's gear list
Nikon D700 Nikon D5000 Canon EOS 7D Nikon 1 V1 Canon EOS 70D +25 more
tach32000 Regular Member • Posts: 146
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

Your putting yourself through a lot of extra stress and wasted time. It stinks they were shipped with this issue, but...

Do yourself a favor and send it to the Nikon Service Center and they will fix the issue.

-- hide signature --
antoineb Veteran Member • Posts: 6,627
not everything moves and a DSLR is cumbersome ;-)

like I said, I own a DSLR, and even some good glass, and here are three things that the iPhone will not do:

  • the D7k will do 6fps with continuous AF. Which incidentally is better than wha the D800 does, by a margin. HOWEVER, to film action, I find that I often prefer FILMS, to a series of stills. Luckily the iPhone does film, with AF, and with quite good quality stereo sound - as opposed to my D7k with films, but can't AF while filming, and captures unacceptably low-quality mono sound.

  • the D7k will deliver good IQ in low light and at high ISO. The iPhone can't do that. HOWEVER, it's not so clear cut. If I go to a dark restaurant with friends, I WOULD get better IQ from my D7k with my 85mm f1.4 - only this is big and cumbersome and conspicuous so it stays at home, wheras the iPhone gets the shots.

  • the D7k will deliver me nice shallow DOF portraits with great bokeh using the 85mm f1.4. Of course it had better when the body alone was over $1'000 and the lens alone was over $1'500 and the gear does nothing else when the iPhone is also a phone, Web browsing device, MP3 player, GPS with live maps (you need to buy an extra accessory to get this on a DSLR and you don't get the maps of course), calendar, etc.

So what happens at the end of the day?

  • I have my iPhone with me at all times, in all kinds of weather, on any travel, sport etc. So it gets tons of shots in all circumstances where it would just be either very inconvenient, or impossible, to take my DSLR. Some DSLRs are more or less weather-resistant, but who cares when my iPhone can stay inside my pocket and I can take it out as needed, in a snow storm up on a mountain, then put in back in - that's just way more practical.

  • when I want a bit of compositional flexibility I take a pocketable superzoom camera. It's IQ is a bit lower than that of my D7k (and markedly so in lower light), but it's nice to be able to go from macro 1cm away to tele on some distant wildlife where a DSLR would require a special purpose lens for either (and you'd need to carry it on the side, too). It also does film, unlike the DSLR. And I can carry it in a pocket.

  • I use my D7k only in places that I can get to by car, and typically only "events" where I'll photograph family members or friends with my 85mm f1.4 - in which case I get nice results, but I also miss a good share of the fun.

So what happens next?

  • in my view, apart from a very small niche of ultra-enthusiasts and pros, no one needs a DSLR and the current iPhone 4S satisfies the needs of most people, most of the time. And when that thing gets a 3x or 5x zoom, it will satisfy even more people, even more of the time.

  • but if some people want to pay lots of money, and lug super-heavy gear which hinders their creativity, that's fine by me - I just hope they get paid for it.

 antoineb's gear list:antoineb's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Olympus TG-610 Nikon D7000 +5 more
Joesiv Veteran Member • Posts: 5,497
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

What's your test target? Just curious, could you post it?
--
Cloverdale, B.C., Canada
Currently shooting: Nikon D3S, D700
http://www.joesiv.com

 Joesiv's gear list:Joesiv's gear list
Nikon D700 Olympus E-510 Nikon D600 Nikon D750 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G +7 more
studio460
studio460 Contributing Member • Posts: 712
Re: YOU may have a credibility problem at hand

GMack wrote:

Does sound fishy, huh?

Com'on. Five D800 cameras exchanged? What dealer has them all so I can get one if they are that plentiful there? Heck. I'll make an offer on one of your returns and send it in to Nikon.

Mack

D800 bodies are gettable in major markets, if you know how (smaller authorized Nikon dealers, Best Buy OMS, etc.).

studio460
studio460 Contributing Member • Posts: 712
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

tach32000 wrote:

Do yourself a favor and send it to the Nikon Service Center and they will fix the issue.

Why do you people continue harp on this recommendation when no one here has yet reported that either a US, Canadian, or Australian Nikon service center has successfully resolved the asymmetrical AF problem? Would you want your $3,000 USD camera tied up at a service depot for a week or more, only to find upon its return that the issue still hasn't been resolved?

Art Jacks Senior Member • Posts: 2,893
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

There are some form of test shots in the OP's gallery but not enough information to know if they are D800 tests.
--

A selection of my images can be found at http://www.photo-genesis.net follow the galleries link then select the Jacks gallery

SergioSpain Contributing Member • Posts: 539
Re: not everything moves and a DSLR is cumbersome ;-)

I don't know why you felt compelled to turn this into a thread on the iPhone, but since you did:

just like the iPhone can sometimes do things that a much more expensive DSLR can do, so there are phones without fruits on them costing $200 that can often do the same things as your $500+ status symbol. So why don't you get one of those?

antoineb wrote:

like I said, I own a DSLR, and even some good glass, and here are three things that the iPhone will not do:

  • the D7k will do 6fps with continuous AF. Which incidentally is better than wha the D800 does, by a margin. HOWEVER, to film action, I find that I often prefer FILMS, to a series of stills. Luckily the iPhone does film, with AF, and with quite good quality stereo sound - as opposed to my D7k with films, but can't AF while filming, and captures unacceptably low-quality mono sound.

  • the D7k will deliver good IQ in low light and at high ISO. The iPhone can't do that. HOWEVER, it's not so clear cut. If I go to a dark restaurant with friends, I WOULD get better IQ from my D7k with my 85mm f1.4 - only this is big and cumbersome and conspicuous so it stays at home, wheras the iPhone gets the shots.

  • the D7k will deliver me nice shallow DOF portraits with great bokeh using the 85mm f1.4. Of course it had better when the body alone was over $1'000 and the lens alone was over $1'500 and the gear does nothing else when the iPhone is also a phone, Web browsing device, MP3 player, GPS with live maps (you need to buy an extra accessory to get this on a DSLR and you don't get the maps of course), calendar, etc.

So what happens at the end of the day?

  • I have my iPhone with me at all times, in all kinds of weather, on any travel, sport etc. So it gets tons of shots in all circumstances where it would just be either very inconvenient, or impossible, to take my DSLR. Some DSLRs are more or less weather-resistant, but who cares when my iPhone can stay inside my pocket and I can take it out as needed, in a snow storm up on a mountain, then put in back in - that's just way more practical.

  • when I want a bit of compositional flexibility I take a pocketable superzoom camera. It's IQ is a bit lower than that of my D7k (and markedly so in lower light), but it's nice to be able to go from macro 1cm away to tele on some distant wildlife where a DSLR would require a special purpose lens for either (and you'd need to carry it on the side, too). It also does film, unlike the DSLR. And I can carry it in a pocket.

  • I use my D7k only in places that I can get to by car, and typically only "events" where I'll photograph family members or friends with my 85mm f1.4 - in which case I get nice results, but I also miss a good share of the fun.

So what happens next?

  • in my view, apart from a very small niche of ultra-enthusiasts and pros, no one needs a DSLR and the current iPhone 4S satisfies the needs of most people, most of the time. And when that thing gets a 3x or 5x zoom, it will satisfy even more people, even more of the time.

  • but if some people want to pay lots of money, and lug super-heavy gear which hinders their creativity, that's fine by me - I just hope they get paid for it.

 SergioSpain's gear list:SergioSpain's gear list
Nikon D700 Nikon D4 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G ED-IF VR +5 more
Dominique Dierick Veteran Member • Posts: 4,494
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

Neither is complaining in a dpreview forum for weeks of course or try out 5 D800's in a week, without even willing to discuss method or tests done.

studio460 wrote:

tach32000 wrote:

Do yourself a favor and send it to the Nikon Service Center and they will fix the issue.

Why do you people continue harp on this recommendation when no one here has yet reported that either a US, Canadian, or Australian Nikon service center has successfully resolved the asymmetrical AF problem? Would you want your $3,000 USD camera tied up at a service depot for a week or more, only to find upon its return that the issue still hasn't been resolved?

-- hide signature --

Nikon NPS member
D3s/D800/450D-IR/60Da/LX5

 Dominique Dierick's gear list:Dominique Dierick's gear list
Fujifilm X100S
Raul Veteran Member • Posts: 8,267
If everybody was like you, Nikon would have fixed the problem! nt
-- hide signature --

"The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young."
O.Wilde

stany buyle Senior Member • Posts: 1,957
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

Cenk wrote:
+1

u007 wrote:

I'm sure they'll just be sealing the box back up and selling it to some other poor sucker on the waiting list.

That "poor sucker" might receive a perefct camera...

I absolutely don't believe the story of 5 defective D800 send to the same person.

-- hide signature --

Kindest regards.
Stany Buyle
http://www.nikonuser.info

I like better one good picture in a day than 10 bad ones in a second..

 stany buyle's gear list:stany buyle's gear list
Nikon D1
stany buyle Senior Member • Posts: 1,957
Re: Received and possibly returning ANOTHER D800

Michael Otis wrote:

I'm always surprised by how so many people go out an purchase new model releases and then complain about their camera having problems. Why not wait a few months till the bugs have been worked out, the reviews and field test done, and then buy the camera. Every new Nikon, Canon, Fugi , etc when first released have had some problems... just wait.

There are no problems.

Magpie

-- hide signature --

Kindest regards.
Stany Buyle
http://www.nikonuser.info

I like better one good picture in a day than 10 bad ones in a second..

 stany buyle's gear list:stany buyle's gear list
Nikon D1
marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: not everything moves and a DSLR is cumbersome ;-)

antoineb wrote:

like I said, I own a DSLR, and even some good glass, and here are three things that the iPhone will not do:

  • the D7k will do 6fps with continuous AF. Which incidentally is better than wha the D800 does, by a margin. HOWEVER, to film action, I find that I often prefer FILMS, to a series of stills. Luckily the iPhone does film, with AF, and with quite good quality stereo sound - as opposed to my D7k with films, but can't AF while filming, and captures unacceptably low-quality mono sound.

  • the D7k will deliver good IQ in low light and at high ISO. The iPhone can't do that. HOWEVER, it's not so clear cut. If I go to a dark restaurant with friends, I WOULD get better IQ from my D7k with my 85mm f1.4 - only this is big and cumbersome and conspicuous so it stays at home, wheras the iPhone gets the shots.

  • the D7k will deliver me nice shallow DOF portraits with great bokeh using the 85mm f1.4. Of course it had better when the body alone was over $1'000 and the lens alone was over $1'500 and the gear does nothing else when the iPhone is also a phone, Web browsing device, MP3 player, GPS with live maps (you need to buy an extra accessory to get this on a DSLR and you don't get the maps of course), calendar, etc.

So what happens at the end of the day?

  • I have my iPhone with me at all times, in all kinds of weather, on any travel, sport etc. So it gets tons of shots in all circumstances where it would just be either very inconvenient, or impossible, to take my DSLR. Some DSLRs are more or less weather-resistant, but who cares when my iPhone can stay inside my pocket and I can take it out as needed, in a snow storm up on a mountain, then put in back in - that's just way more practical.

  • when I want a bit of compositional flexibility I take a pocketable superzoom camera. It's IQ is a bit lower than that of my D7k (and markedly so in lower light), but it's nice to be able to go from macro 1cm away to tele on some distant wildlife where a DSLR would require a special purpose lens for either (and you'd need to carry it on the side, too). It also does film, unlike the DSLR. And I can carry it in a pocket.

  • I use my D7k only in places that I can get to by car, and typically only "events" where I'll photograph family members or friends with my 85mm f1.4 - in which case I get nice results, but I also miss a good share of the fun.

So what happens next?

  • in my view, apart from a very small niche of ultra-enthusiasts and pros, no one needs a DSLR and the current iPhone 4S satisfies the needs of most people, most of the time. And when that thing gets a 3x or 5x zoom, it will satisfy even more people, even more of the time.

  • but if some people want to pay lots of money, and lug super-heavy gear which hinders their creativity, that's fine by me - I just hope they get paid for it.

Way off topic, and full of misinformation. The D7000 AFs fine in video mode, but it's images are not even close to as good as the D800s IQ. D800 has significantly better high ISO performance than all the cameras you named and IQ. If this doesn't matter to you, fine. But don't presume DSLR or PDAF are obsolete. What's more, you're embarrassing yourself with the contention that it is the iPhone that is making DSLRs obsolete. Having fun on Facebook, uploading some faux artsy shot you made in Instagram is not my idea of photography. If it's your, knock yourself out. But your dreadfully long rants filled with wild proclamations about what camera with satisfy most people are way off the mark, and quite frankly, megalomaniacal drivel.

You are on one of the most popular camera sites in the world, where thousands of photographers of all types share their passion for photography, and you've, through some questionable logic and faulty reasoning, concluded that an iPhone is all people really need.

 marike6's gear list:marike6's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Nikon D800 Fujifilm X-E1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +7 more
marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: YOU may have a credibility problem at hand

Dominique Dierick wrote:

At first I thought your question was genuine, but the posting history and this answer makes me think you may run into a credibility problem.

First of all, let me assure you we are not all idiots as you seem to imply with this phrase:

'I find it hard to believe that there are people out there that have camera's that are not affected by this AF issue. Either they haven't checked, or are unaware.'

I also find this statement to be indicative of the OP trolling. It's almost as if he's a plant, but surely Canon wouldn't put someone up to something like this. But the logic of the statement is incredible: the OP got 5 imaginary D800s that all had AF issues so all the other real D800s in the world must have AF issues or the users aren't testing them as rigorously as he tested his pretend D800s. No but seriously, this kind of self-centered logic is amazing to behold.

Looking at your timeline, an incredible fortune to find 5 D800's in 10 days, an incredible misfortune to have them all fail.

Ordered 10 (!!!!) from Amazon in Feb (posted April 20), was still waiting for a D800 (April 24 - 26), did not yet get one from Pro Photo (Arpril 30), finally got one there May 01, found assumed AF problem with tabletop pics (May 02), returned it, canceled some outstanding D800 order (May 05), wrote you got your 4th faulty D800 (May 07) from various stores 'testing them all extensively' and returned them all for refund, and on May 10 gets your fifth D800 with problems.

Hmmm. So in the US where D800s are incredibly scarce, the OP had the ability to get multiple D800s? This fact calls into question his entire post. All this "left AF" talk prompted me to test my D800 (a camera that I am extremely happy with) and I have found that all the images are identical with the same acutance regardless of AF point used. (It annoys me that I actually took time to do this test, but the paranoia of these forums is infectious).

But a request for the OP, for arguments sake, could you post the images of your test along with a description of your testing method?

 marike6's gear list:marike6's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Nikon D800 Fujifilm X-E1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +7 more
antoineb Veteran Member • Posts: 6,627
risk avoidance

true there are cheaper phones out there

and there are phones with better cameras, such as a Nokia model or a Sony model

but they all have issues of stability, of browser issues (typically on Nokia), you name it.

and then comes the simple network externality, i.e. the fruit has that ecosystem whose philosophy is unbearable (world dominance, many customers behaving like the faithful in some sick cult), but which has some advantages.

I don't care so much about iPhone or not - but I think that the camera of the future is certainly not some big, bulky, heavy, noisy thing which can't film and can't properly AF without having been fine-tuned (and still won't be perfectly precise even after that fine-tuning).

 antoineb's gear list:antoineb's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Olympus TG-610 Nikon D7000 +5 more
marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: risk avoidance

antoineb wrote:

true there are cheaper phones out there

and there are phones with better cameras, such as a Nokia model or a Sony model

but they all have issues of stability, of browser issues (typically on Nokia), you name it.

and then comes the simple network externality, i.e. the fruit has that ecosystem whose philosophy is unbearable (world dominance, many customers behaving like the faithful in some sick cult), but which has some advantages.

I don't care so much about iPhone or not - but I think that the camera of the future is certainly not some big, bulky, heavy, noisy thing which can't film and can't properly AF without having been fine-tuned (and still won't be perfectly precise even after that fine-tuning).

For someone who doesn't care about the iPhone, you seem to be going on and on about it. It's way off topic. Either you have stock in Apple or you've convinced yourself that people here care about phones are serious cameras. Whatever the reason for your singular focus, this thread has zero to do with camera phones.

And I hate to indulge you, but I'm not sure what cameras you think can't film. My GH2 and my D800 take better video than an iPhone could ever hope to, and they both AF in video mode. (Not that it's my preferred method for focussing while filming). In fact, neither has any AF issues whatsoever. You've decided that DSLRs have issues where the reality is, in general, they have none. Why do you think DSLRs are the mainstay of AF critical areas of photography like sports, adventure, etc?

Wow, this forum is turning into a veritable zoo, with so much nonsense going on, it's making DPR, which used to be one of my favorite websites/forums to visit for info, a total bummer, with seemingly endless cringe-worthy threads.

 marike6's gear list:marike6's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Nikon D800 Fujifilm X-E1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +7 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads