After all, the OM-D sensor is Panasonic and ..

Started Apr 30, 2012 | Discussions
peppermonkey Veteran Member • Posts: 4,571
Re: I have a very different theory

That does make sense...for future cameras...

I don't think there has been enough time for Oly to incorporate a Sony sensor in relation to the article. Not that it's not a Sony sensor since Oly may have just gone and asked for sensors from Sony ages ago (with no relation with the article).

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

Mal_In_Oz wrote:

acahaya wrote:

The only reason i can come up here is that the sensor is built by a company that until now doesn't have the reputation to build good sensors and if that is the case, it might have been in Oly's interst to keep silence to avoid discussions.

This is the only plausible explanation I have heard. If this was a Samsung sensor made to Olympus specifications, it would likely be better for Olympus to keep the Samsung name out of the marketing material. Samsung sensors are doing Ok, even at 20 megapixel, but the public perception might be different.

. . . Well since we're all just guessing here, I think that there's an upcoming announcement coming later this month about Olympus entering in to an alliance with Sony and that Sony might have sweetened their offer by selling to Olympus a sensor for the OM-D.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-03/olympus-gets-capital-alliance-offers-from-sony-fujifilm-terumo.html

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peppermonkey Veteran Member • Posts: 4,571
Re: As a fan of this format, I hope...

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

To me Aptina and and Toshiba are better candidates, Sony will not make a 4/3 sensor to compete with the NEX, Dalsa is good but I am not seeing them doing such kind of sensor

This is a wrong assumption (though it could turn out to be correct). Sony already sells its sensors for cameras that compete with Sony's camera. The Pentax K5, Nikon Dsomethingorother etc...

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Hubert

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StephanSchmidt Regular Member • Posts: 211
Re: After all, the OM-D sensor is Panasonic and ..

Yes there is. The very existence of this thread and the strong opinions expressed illustrate that there is a definite marketing advantage to having people think that there is Olympus special sauce in this sensor (as there might be). Same resoning as Nikon never comes clean about getting sensors from Sony.

Marketing for 0.1% of users? And who is buying the M5 because he does not know what sensor it has? Does not make sense.

More than a hint. Previous practice. But no hard evidence either way. Which works both ways.

If it was previous practice, they'd just say it's a Panasonic sensor and move on.
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StephanSchmidt Regular Member • Posts: 211
Re: Not a Panasonic sensor I'm afraid....

Curious, has Olympus ever actually admitted(officially announced, stated etc.) to using a Panasonic sensor in their other cameras? Just asking because I don't recall them saying so (even though we all know they have been).

Yes, it was in every press release when they switched sensors to Panasonic.

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No, f2 is f2 is f2.

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Detail Man
Detail Man Forum Pro • Posts: 16,688
Re: Well, it has worked for marketing

TrapperJohn wrote:

By being coy about the sensor, these sorts of discussions are being encouraged. A bit of mystery, a puzzle to ponder.

I agree. The very audience obsessed with this largely trivial question fails to note their own gullibility to the hype which has enchanted them into (as a result of the tease of "the unkown stranger") blabbering endlessly about the camera within which it is incorporated. Marketing genius.

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The truth is rarely pure and never simple .

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Gary Stallones Senior Member • Posts: 1,310
Re: What a fuss over nothing, just go out and take pictures (nt)
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Revenant Forum Member • Posts: 51
Re: 16.6 does nto equal 16.9

bobn2 wrote:

The image forming area is less than the total area, and it is quite common for companies using the same sensor to choose slightly different border masks. For instance, Nikon's and Sony's often have different pixel counts. One reason is that different companies pattern noise measures need different numbers of black masked pixels.

But we're not talking about the effective pixels here. There's a difference in the total number of photo sites. Can this number vary if the sensor is the same?

Panasonic G3
Effective pixels: 15.8 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors: 16.6 megapixels

Panasonic GX1
Effective pixels: 16.0 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors: 16.6 megapixels

Olympus E-M5
Effective pixels: 16.1 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors: 16.9 megapixels

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 53,173
Re: 16.6 does nto equal 16.9

Revenant wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

The image forming area is less than the total area, and it is quite common for companies using the same sensor to choose slightly different border masks. For instance, Nikon's and Sony's often have different pixel counts. One reason is that different companies pattern noise measures need different numbers of black masked pixels.

But we're not talking about the effective pixels here. There's a difference in the total number of photo sites. Can this number vary if the sensor is the same?

Yes, because the effective pixels are the proportion of the total pixels that are not masked.

Panasonic G3
Effective pixels: 15.8 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors: 16.6 megapixels

Panasonic GX1
Effective pixels: 16.0 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors: 16.6 megapixels

Olympus E-M5
Effective pixels: 16.1 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors: 16.9 megapixels

And there are counting issues too.

E-M5 is 4608×3456 = 15925248 - 16.1 megapixels?
GX1 is 4592 x 3448 = 15833216 - 16.0 megapixels?
G3 is 4592 x 3448 = 15833216 - 15.8 megapixels!

The difference is 16 pixels horizontally and 8 pixels vertically - quite within tolerances for the same sensor - for instance:

G1 = 4000 x 3000 = 12000000 - 12.1 megapixels?
E-P1 = 4032 x 3024 = 12192768 - 12.3 megapixels?

So, this is quite consistent with what has been seen before with Olympus and Panasonic use of the same sensor in fact, rather less difference than before.
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Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,466
Re: After all, the OM-D sensor is Panasonic and ..

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Anders W wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Anders W wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Anders W wrote:

For the rest of us, no it's not the G3/GX1 sensor, if the sensor is defined so as to include the RAW readout circuitry.

sure, the same way as Pentax K5 and Nikon D7000 and whatever Sony Imaging managed are all different sensors and neither is produced by Sony Semiconductor

I am afraid you got that wrong. Those are indeed the same sensor the way I defined it. This stuff about on-chip column ADCs you know. Kind of hard and pointless to take that away, don't you think?

the difference between Sony Imaging and Pentax/Nikon is big enough even all 3 chips have on chip ADCs...

Is that so? Exactly what differences in the readout circuitry would you point to?

DxOMark tests are your friend - go and check... for 16mp APS-C (Sony cameras vs Pentax/Nikon).

Done that long ago already and it doesn't change my conclusion.

and 24mp FF sensors (A900 vs D3x)... not circuitry - everything from CFA to firmware as a whole system.

Those do not have on-chip column ADCs and are not the ones we are talking about. So why bring them into the discussion at this point?

Whether the silicon itself is the same as on the G3/GX1 or not is anybody's guess at this time.

indeed... but the main guess is whether it is from Panasonic or not, not so whether it is from G3 or not.

I guess the OP has the privilege of defining what the main question is for present purposes. And he says:

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

After all, my logical opinion (and some others) was right the OM-D sensor is Panasonic (same as on G3)

Besides: What other Panasonic sensor could it be? There is only one other Panasonic 16 MP MFT sensor that I am aware of, i.e., that in the GH2. And we know it's not that one.

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szlevi Contributing Member • Posts: 932
Re: A touch of OCD? -nt-

You need to visit your eye doctor if you cannot see the difference in the studio scene, seriosly.

marike6 wrote:

It's obviously the same sensor as the studio scene, better noise handling of the OM-D aside, images from the G3, GX1 and OM-D are identical.

Olympus obviously did a great job with it, just as Pentax did a great job improving on the 16mp Sony Exmor sensor found in the D7000, NEX-5N, K-5, et al.

Still knowing that it's the same sensor is relevant for users considering a purchase of the OM-D. Knowing what the G3 and GX1 are capable of, and the kind of images they can produce makes it easier to decide if the reviewer's claim that the OM-D IQ is as good as the best APS-C cameras on the market is accurate. Never having used the OM-D, but having shot extensively with the GX1 (and GH2), and having also used the D7000, D3100, X100, even though I think the OM-D is a beautiful camera, I'm not buying that it's on par or better than the best APS-C cameras. Knowing the basic performance of the 16mp LiveMOS, no tweaking in the world could make it as good as a sensor like the Exmor.

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