Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

Started Apr 10, 2012 | Discussions
PixelGigant
PixelGigant Contributing Member • Posts: 674
Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

I want to use my nice Elinchrome RX 1200 set for a high speed shoot ( 1/1000 sec. ) ...

I'm used to work with my Speedlite 580 EX II with high speed sync, but I haven't enough light.

Is this possible ?

Thanks !!

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Quantum Help Senior Member • Posts: 1,666
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

The elinchrom units are not dedicated like the Speedlight, so they are incapable of doing High Speed Sync.

However, they can shoot using a higher shutter speed on the camera. You would need to move the light closer to the subject, set it to full power and to shoot at a wide f/stop on the lens. This method is a different way than HSS on a camera works, but it can get you a somewhat decent exposure.

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Kraig Senior Member • Posts: 2,194
RX 1200 high speed sync...no but

I'm not sure what Quantum talking about maybe he will be more specific might be something the canon flash is doing and not referencing the Elinchrome

Your 5D mkII will sync at 1/200 sec with the Elinchromes or and commercial type strobe. It's a limit of the shutter type in the camera.

Not sure what you are tying to achieve here but the RX 1200 has a pretty short flash duration of 1/1450s (thats it's t=0.5 time google that it's good to understand if you don't already know) if you can keep your ambient light low enough that might be plenty fast for what you are after.

If you are out in the sun you will still be at that 1/200 sync limit so think about adding neutral density to your lens.

K'

Quantum Help Senior Member • Posts: 1,666
For Kraig

The way that a speedlight works in High Speed Sync is different that the way it works as a regular flash. In HSS, above the normal sync speed. the camera controls the flash and has the flash do a series of rapid fire lo power flashes, starting just before the front curtain begins to move and continuing all the way until until the rear curtain closes. As the shutter speed on the camera is increases, the number of flashes increases and the power level decreases, hence the severe light loss in HSS.

The Elinchrom flashes do not work like speedlights, so what I explained in my first post was a way around that.

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Shaun Bell Senior Member • Posts: 1,267
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

You could try a MiniTT1 and a Flex5 in hyper sync mode. Really depends on your flash power curve to determine how close you can get to 1/1000. Hyper sync also reduces you available power as well. I'm just setting up a set for my Photogenic Solairs and a few Lumedynes. I'll let you know how fast I can go. I hate reading manuals!

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Mark Astmann Junior Member • Posts: 36
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

Hi de rosten,

Yes you can achieve high speed sync using the Elinchrom RX 1200 and the PocketWizard Flex system along with their ST4 module. While the exact sync speed will vary depending upon your camera, we were able to get a 1/4000th with the RX600 and a Canon 5D MarkII. For more information about this type of set up follow Tom Bol's blog on HyperSync and the Rangers. (Here's the link to an article on Pocket Wizards site: http://blog.pocketwizard.com/?p=3216 . Even though it's about battery packs, the same concepts apply.

Mark Astmann
Lighting Product Manager
Manfrotto Distribution USA

de rosten wrote:

I want to use my nice Elinchrome RX 1200 set for a high speed shoot ( 1/1000 sec. ) ...

I'm used to work with my Speedlite 580 EX II with high speed sync, but I haven't enough light.

Is this possible ?

Thanks !!

-- hide signature --

Sincerely,

Mark Astmann

Darren_Birkin
Darren_Birkin Contributing Member • Posts: 561
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

I can't speak for the 1200 RX because I don't have one but I do have a Ranger which is similar-ish.

It all depends on the flash duration and that generally varies with power output. Generally a short flash duration is desirable to freeze movement but if you want/need to use a shutter speed higher than the cameras x sync speed you actually want a longer flash duration.

If you use the PW ST4 receiver with a TT1 or TT5 on camera you may find you are able to use a higher.than normal shutter speed due to the timing adjustments that the PW system can make.

Whe using my Elincrom Ranger in this way with the standard "A" head I can get clean sync at any shutter speed up to 1/8000th at any power level.

regards

Darren

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UKphotographers Veteran Member • Posts: 4,337
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

de rosten wrote:

I want to use my nice Elinchrome RX 1200 set for a high speed shoot ( 1/1000 sec. ) ...

I'm used to work with my Speedlite 580 EX II with high speed sync, but I haven't enough light.

Is this possible ?

Thanks !!

If you want a 'high speed shot' utilising a fast flash duration, then you shouldn't have a problem.

If you're wanting to use some HSS derivative then you're going to be challenged.

At 1/1000s I'd say that you will encounter banding with your setup.. all Hypersync setups do and particularly with the flash duration of the RX 1200 @ 1/1450. Shorter flash durations cause a brighter output over a short time span, consequently, when overlaying that output over your shutter duration you get a peak brightness surrounded by relative darkness.. so the banding is inevitable.

I could manage a Hypersync setup with a speedlight up to 1/800s with acceptable (ish) banding which provided MORE output to the flash ratio, but the banding really is a compromise. With the speedlight sample I could keep the aperture setting but increase the shutterspeed which provided advantage.. but as I said banding was evident and a real compromise. The flash duration of the speedlight was supposed to be around 1/1000s - but in reality its more in the region of 1/300s which helps with Hypersync.

A regular x-sync speed of 1/250s takes twice that time to complete from first shutter openning to second shutter closing.. near 1/125s. At the faster shutterspeeds of 1/8000s the duration is closer to the 1/250s duration, so having a flash duration between 1/125s - 1/250s is advantageous for minimal banding.

You need to be able to sync at your first shutter openning too.. this is the regular HSS/FP shutter timing which is not Hypersync specific, but easier to apply with Nikon equipment.

Of all the samples provided everywhere with Elinchrom lighting and Hypersync, none have ever illustrated any ratio advantage although many have illustrated banding. If you manage anything with your 1200, please show.

Often, the Elinchrom Ranger with 'S' head is the setup preferred for this type of use

as it provides the longer flash duration preferred for higher shutterspeed use. I have never seen any evidence of this setup retaining ratio between flash and ambient - and as previously posted - if this is the intention, or you want to overpower ambient, you're far better off just using the raw output at maximum x-sync shutterspeed and mix in some ND to reduce DOF.

If you link here http://www.commercialphotographer.co.uk/blog/?p=274 you'll find a lengthy blog post explaining some of this in more detail along with examples where at 1/8000s you can actually increase your flash ratio benefit using either Lumedyne or Quantum. Similarly to the Speedlight flash duration being longer than published, I think the Quantum and Lumedyne durations are shorter than 'for real' as the only explaination for obtaining greater output at faster shutterspeeds is a more matched/shutter efficient flash duration. (This does actually occur with speedlights using longer x-sync shutterspeeds, 1/60-1/125s being optimum, - although not beneficial in bright ambient- but I have yet to test this with the Quantums/Lumedynes). Reading through the blog post will give you an insight into the pitfalls and benefits.

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Ian.

http://www.commercialphotographer.co.uk

Theres only one sun. Why do I need more than one light to get a natural result?

UKphotographers Veteran Member • Posts: 4,337
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

Darren_Birkin wrote:

Whe using my Elincrom Ranger in this way with the standard "A" head I can get clean sync at any shutter speed up to 1/8000th at any power level.

I'd like to see some samples of that if you have any - also whether theres any power or ratio loss and also where there's no other ambient contributing.

Like I mentioned above - people say these things, but theres very little evidence of the capabilities or samples around anywhere.

The PW system with ST4 can transition from a 'Peak' hypersync at near 1/250s to a 'tail' hypersync at near 1/8000s. Do either of these offer any advantage over ambient at any point and where/what are the benefits, other than just being able to sync?

-- hide signature --

Ian.

http://www.commercialphotographer.co.uk

Theres only one sun. Why do I need more than one light to get a natural result?

Darren_Birkin
Darren_Birkin Contributing Member • Posts: 561
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner but I don't always check back on threads that I've posted to.

I haven't carried out very scientific testing or checked exactly how much, if any, loss of effective power there is at the higher speeds. I just checked to see if it was giving a clean frame without any dark areas, which it does. For my uses that's good enough and any loss of power can be compensated for by adjusting the aperture a bit if necessary.

I'm afraid I didn't bother to save or annotate the shots that I took when testing as it didn't seem necessary. The best option would be to try it for yourself and see if it works as you need it to.

Regards

Darren

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orc999 Junior Member • Posts: 38
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

Hi

the standart head are called "S" while the speed heads are called "A"(action).

Don't confuse this. So still there are people telling you need the A Head to get high speed sync, while others say you need the standart Heads.

Can somebody clarify?

thanks

Peter Berressem Forum Pro • Posts: 10,647
Re: Elinchrom Style RX 1200 high speed sync ???

orc999 wrote:

Hi

the standart head are called "S" while the speed heads are called "A"(action).

Don't confuse this. So still there are people telling you need the A Head to get high speed sync, while others say you need the standart Heads.

Can somebody clarify?

thanks

The A head gets you a shorter flash duration while the S head allows a higher speed sync due to it's longer duration ("hyper sync").

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cheers, Peter
Germany

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