Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

Started Mar 29, 2012 | Discussions
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philm5d Contributing Member • Posts: 681
Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

I've only had this effect visible once before on a guy's shirt, but these nursing students are a lot worse. How bad could this have been without an AA filter?

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joaquin100 Senior Member • Posts: 1,676
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

philm5d wrote:

I've only had this effect visible once before on a guy's shirt, but these nursing students are a lot worse. How bad could this have been without an AA filter?

well non AA filter can also get hit from Moiré in some situations.

Check the brown jacket from the Guy ..(scroll down) are samples from D800E, you can also see than D800E can do fabrics in most situations with no moiré if you check the other samples.

http://translate.google.com/...A%2F%2Fpcfoto.biz%2Fna-prvi-pogled-nikon-d800e

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpcfoto.biz%2Fna-prvi-pogled-nikon-d800e

hope the link works

J

Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 29,274
moiré ha ha! n/t
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zzapamiga Regular Member • Posts: 497
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

philm5d wrote:

I've only had this effect visible once before on a guy's shirt, but these nursing students are a lot worse. How bad could this have been without an AA filter?

Moiré occurs if a scene contains areas with repetitive detail which exceeds the resolution of the camera. The D800E is a much higher resolution camera than the D3 therefore the D800E taking the same shot could have less moiré or could even have none. The higher the resolution of the sensor the less moiré is produces. All I can say for certain is the D800E will produce a lot less moiré then a D3 with the AA filter removed.

J Mankila
J Mankila Veteran Member • Posts: 4,234
Was there moire at 100% magnification?

If there wasn't moire at 100% magnification, it's not an issue, at all. Downsampling to a smaller resolution can do that all by itself, and add a touch of sharpening and there you go.

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regards
Janne Mankila, Finland

mfbernstein Veteran Member • Posts: 6,518
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

philm5d wrote:

I've only had this effect visible once before on a guy's shirt, but these nursing students are a lot worse. How bad could this have been without an AA filter?

That's not caused by the camera or AA filter, that's caused by the downsampling algorithm/software.

Resize it in something else and you should have no trouble.

Genuine moire caused by the sensor is only visible at full or close to full magnification, which this is not.

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MFBernstein

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falconeyes
falconeyes Senior Member • Posts: 1,329
false info (nt)

......

KenEis Veteran Member • Posts: 4,047
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

Note how specific the beyond resolution criteria is applied. Only the back row has bad moire. The front row is just a tad closer to the camera so no moire but I assume the same shirt material.
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Ken Eis
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jean bernier Veteran Member • Posts: 3,171
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

IMO, moiré can happen with any resolution. I have seen it in the studio when shooting fabrics with 6 mpixels, 12 mpixels, 24 mpixels cameras. It just depends on a coincidence between the sensor regular pattern and the enlargement of the fabric's image on the sensor. When both closely match, moiré appears. As long as sensors will consist of regular rows of pixels instead of a random pattern, moiré will be a possibility.

Factors include: type of fabric (fine/coarse), perfect focus and aperture (parts of the garment that are in/out of focus), and mainly enlargement of the projected image (distance/focal lenght). Diffraction at small apertures can reduce the occurence.

For typical studio portraits, the more the pixels, the less the posibilities of moiré, as most fabric patterns will be resolved, but it will still happen, only at a different enlargement. Double the pixel count, and one could instead of seeing it on half torso shots, see it on medium shots, all else being equal...
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J Mankila
J Mankila Veteran Member • Posts: 4,234
Just how? :)

Just how was that false info? You mean the all of it? I certainly don't think so. The only bit that I found inaccurate was that, indeed, at least colour moire will be visible when downsized.

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regards
Janne Mankila, Finland

Jarkko Haarla Jr Senior Member • Posts: 1,055
Re: Just how? :)

I allways shoot people with textured shirts with the camera tilted 5 -10 degrees. No moire, no problem.

With the D4 arriving to this money-forgotten-country, I can change the tilt into 3-4 degrees.

Yamo Junior Member • Posts: 43
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

mfbernstein wrote:

That's not caused by the camera or AA filter, that's caused by the downsampling algorithm/software.

Resize it in something else and you should have no trouble.

Genuine moire caused by the sensor is only visible at full or close to full magnification, which this is not.

+1 Sensor moire will show significant color problems (introduced in demosaicing). Downsampling moire won't show the color problems to a large degree.

Cheers,

-Yamo-

KenEis Veteran Member • Posts: 4,047
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

I would assume that the reference setup of these employees could cause moire with a D800(e) just by moving the camera further back until the cloth patterns were small enough in solid angle to cause the moire on the higher resolution focal plane. But it would be a very specific distance...not more or less. So just a little change would cut off the moire.
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Ken Eis
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UponQuai
UponQuai Contributing Member • Posts: 654
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

can't see moire

GlobalGuyUSA Senior Member • Posts: 1,726
Re: Worst moiré I have ever had - D3

The woman's shirt, on the right of the guy in white.
Moire city. As well as on others.

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Sincerely,

GlobalGuyUSA

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falconeyes
falconeyes Senior Member • Posts: 1,329
Re: Just how? :)

J Mankila wrote:

Just how was that false info? You mean the all of it? I certainly don't think so. The only bit that I found inaccurate was that, indeed, at least colour moire will be visible when downsized.

All of the post I replied to was false info.

Moiré is not created by downsampling here and by its very nature, Moiré is a low frequency pattern which normally survives some further downsampling. Of course, if downsampling enough, even the lower Moiré pattern frequency will be killed.

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