NEX OVERHEATING:It's Time to Ask Sony

Started Mar 18, 2012 | Discussions
NEX Marc New Member • Posts: 19
NEX OVERHEATING:It's Time to Ask Sony
1

[see the latest test results here]

http://moreissaidthandone.blogspot.com/2012/03/sony-nex-overheating-final-tests.html

After numerous tests and re-tests my conclusions are the following:

There are ways (some more obtrusive than others) to lower the surface temperature of my NEX.

None of these methods individually or taken together modify the following, essential characteristic of my NEX:

From cold the camera will heat up, display the thermal warning, and then may or may not make it to the 30 minute mark (at which point the camera reaches its maximum 30 minute segment record time.).

If the camera records to the 30 minute mark, then trying to record again immediately will result in thermal shutdown after a few minutes.

If in either case, if one allows the camera to cool for 4 to 5 minutes, then the camera may record one or two more additional 30 minute segments (allowing for cool down in between), most often without displaying any warnings, even though the recorded surface temperature is well above the point where shutdown previously occurred.

The best strategies for increasing the chances of making it to the initial 30 minute mark are, in order of effectiveness:

  1. Use the Sony 32 GB Memory Stick PRO-HG Duo Media

  2. Use the AC adapter instead of the battery.

The following offer only marginally small improvements to cooling and/or record time.

Keep the LCD open and use a small, portable fan.

Remove the rear label and apply heat sinks and use a fan.
.
.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

Yes it's true that the NEX is sold as a still camera, and what a great still camera it is. And yes it's true that one might regard the video functions as a kind of "bonus" feature that is a "nice to have," but not worth too much time and attention if they don't work exactly as expected. Although I do not agree with these assertions, even if I did, I would still find fault with my camera as is. Here's why.

The behavior of the camera is paradoxical.

  1. Why does it report thermal distress at temperatures that seem far below temperatures at which it will later operate with out a fuss?

  2. Why does it not report thermal distress prior to shutdown at higher temperatures?

  3. Why does the camera's surface temperature continuously rise in spite of serious counter-measures?

  4. Why does using the Memory Stick format seem to reduce the operating temperature?

It seems to me that even if the essential characteristics of the camera cannot be altered, some practical changes would make the camera more usable:

Determine if the thermal distress indicator is functioning correctly.

Ensure the thermal distress indicator functions consistently.

Determine if the camera triggers thermal shutdown appropriately.

Provide guidance on maximizing record time (Examples: Memory Stick, AC adapter, waiting periods between recordings).

Add a countdown timer to recording (from 30 minutes) so that users know that there is a maximum record time independent of card size.

Improvement on these items would make camera operation more predicable and the user experience more enjoyable.

.
.

IT IS TIME TO ASK SONY

It's time for Sony to acknowledge this as an issue and work toward a solution. I intend to send these comments to Sony in a letter. I urge others to do the same or to simply file a question with Sony customer support.

https://s01.esupport.sony.com/US

Gary H Senior Member • Posts: 2,543
Re: NEX OVERHEATING:It's Time to Ask Sony

I returned my NEX-7 due to overheating and have another one coming. I was thinking that possibly the sensor was not properly passing heat to the body due to improper assembly.. ie leaving out thermal paste.. or some such thing.

I use a 45Mb/sec Sandisk SDHC card, so why would I go with a memory stick Pro-HG Duo?

 Gary H's gear list:Gary H's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X100S Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a7 +28 more
rishi o' Senior Member • Posts: 1,462
Re: NEX OVERHEATING:It's Time to Ask Sony

Do let us know if the new one makes a difference. Mine overheats in about 15 minutes on the first run and less than 4 minutes on each press of record after. It's really the worst thing about the camera.

Gary H wrote:

I returned my NEX-7 due to overheating and have another one coming. I was thinking that possibly the sensor was not properly passing heat to the body due to improper assembly.. ie leaving out thermal paste.. or some such thing.

I use a 45Mb/sec Sandisk SDHC card, so why would I go with a memory stick Pro-HG Duo?

-- hide signature --
Gary H Senior Member • Posts: 2,543
Re: NEX OVERHEATING:It's Time to Ask Sony

Will do... I also ordered a Garitz half-case with the metal baseplate. I'm curious to see if the heat insulation provided by the leather, or the heat sinking properties of the base will either shorten up time, or lengthen it. Mine bombed at five minutes. Opening the LCD panel helped a bit.

 Gary H's gear list:Gary H's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X100S Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a7 +28 more
OP NEX Marc New Member • Posts: 19
Why Memory Stick?

Gary H wrote:

I use a 45Mb/sec Sandisk SDHC card, so why would I go with a memory stick Pro-HG Duo?

Gary,

In my tests, all posted on my blog, I confirmed on my NEX-5N (as others had reported) that the Memory Stick runs cooler. In some situations or perhaps with some cameras, this may be the margin needed to improve recording times.

http://moreissaidthandone.blogspot.com/search/label/NEX%20Overheating

relate2 Contributing Member • Posts: 930
Re: Why Memory Stick?

You are wasting your time with your bold shouting at Sony on this forum. They make a great video camera if you want more than 30 minutes of video.

Sony is not going to listen to the 5 people out there who want more than 30 minutes of continuous video.
--
http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2

Shield3 Senior Member • Posts: 2,440
Re: Why Memory Stick?

As one who was dumb enough to invest 2x the cost for Memory Duo cards to alleviate this problem, I can tell you the Duo cards are more narrow than the regular SDHC cards; perhaps it allows more ventilation somehow?

I don't really see much of a difference with the pro duo either.

 Shield3's gear list:Shield3's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 35mm F1.4L USM Canon EF 85mm F1.2L II USM Canon EF 135mm F2L USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM +2 more
jjjaaammm Regular Member • Posts: 153
Re: Why Memory Stick?

i believe the sony MSs have an additional connection pin and allow for less bottlenecking during data transfer.

Gary H Senior Member • Posts: 2,543
Re: Why Memory Stick?

relate2 wrote:

You are wasting your time with your bold shouting at Sony on this forum. They make a great video camera if you want more than 30 minutes of video.

Sony is not going to listen to the 5 people out there who want more than 30 minutes of continuous video.
--
http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2

I agree that Sony wont be reading this thread. They don't even bother to get SonyStyle under control, so pleasing consumers doesn't seem to be at the top of their list.

Your statement above make it clear that you haven't read the thread starter. The main issue is that the camera overheats. The camera in question is the NEX-5. My Nex-7 bombed at 5 minutes and yes, I purchased it so that I could also take video. It supposedly allowed this up to the (E.U. Imposed taxation) limit of 30 minutes. I put down my $1349 plus California tax and I want the camera to function properly, or I want Sony to get things straight. I think it is reasonable to expect the camera to perform as advertised. Personally, I own a very expensive and large three chip camcorder and I don't want to lug it around.

 Gary H's gear list:Gary H's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X100S Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a7 +28 more
relate2 Contributing Member • Posts: 930
Re: Why Memory Stick?

Gary H wrote:

I agree that Sony wont be reading this thread. They don't even bother to get SonyStyle under control, so pleasing consumers doesn't seem to be at the top of their list.

Your statement above make it clear that you haven't read the thread starter. The main issue is that the camera overheats. The camera in question is the NEX-5. My Nex-7 bombed at 5 minutes and yes, I purchased it so that I could also take video. It supposedly allowed this up to the (E.U. Imposed taxation) limit of 30 minutes. I put down my $1349 plus California tax and I want the camera to function properly, or I want Sony to get things straight. I think it is reasonable to expect the camera to perform as advertised. Personally, I own a very expensive and large three chip camcorder and I don't want to lug it around.

I hear you Gary but other than releasing some steam here nothing will happen until people start returning their cameras. Companies usually only react to their bottom line.
--
http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2

richg101 Regular Member • Posts: 226
Re: Why Memory Stick?

thanks for the heads up on the pro duo sticks. been considering going to a sony card. id bet it uses a different transfer process while recording, and wouldnt be surprised if it improves write speed over a class 10 card, while freeing up processor headroom in the process.

my findings have shown the lens mount ring actually gets warmer then my heatsink arrangment since i added heatsinks and removed the sticker behind the lcd.

i intend on adding a custom heatsink to the metal e-mount ring soon, and am sure it will add to the cooling process.

what so many seem to forget is that the nex 5n is a canon 7d killer for video use. baring in mind the 7d is the first choice for commercial video makers using dslr's. why not try and make the 5n more durable for more demanding applications?

your suggestion about heat being lower while using the ac adaptor makes perfect sense. as the battery discharges, the voltage drops from around 8.4v (2x fully charged li-ion cells in series), down to a lot lower voltage of maybe as low as 6.8v. assuming the camera was run on a fully charged battery (650mAh) and the camera is consuming an estimated 7watts continuous (RMS), at full charge the current running through the circuit boards will be 0.8333A (833mA). when the battery is discharged to around 6.8v the current rises to 1.03A (1030mA) in order for the lower voltage to provide the required estimated 7watts to run the camera. assuming the camera consumes 10watts, the difference becomes even greater.

a jump of almost 200mA current going through the very tight printed circuit board electrical 'pathways' within the tiny enclosed space is sure to add more heat and this is magnified by the fact the camera case is struggling to dissipate the heat from the processor and sensor arrangement.

richg101 Regular Member • Posts: 226
Re: Why Memory Stick?

and of course, heat will continue to increase as long the heat created is being done so faster than it is dissipated. the more heat, the higher the resistance in the pcb tracks. and thus more heat.

LSHorwitz1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,524
Re: Why Memory Stick?

Having owned both a NEX 5 as well as an a55 since their initial introduction, as well as the more recent a77 and NEX-7, I am here to tell you that all of this is YESTERDAY's news.............Sony has been dealing with short video recording time and thermal cycling issues for the entire 1 year and 10 months since the a55 came out.

No doubt, Sony has the engineering prowess to design any type of performance they want from a thermal stand-point. It is NOT rocket science to provide better heat dissipation methods, select higher performance parts, or modify the design in ways which mitigate the problem. I say this as an electrical engineer with 40+ years of design experience.

Marketing decisions regarding which cameras perform which functions is fundemental to the way Sony does business. They sell a ton of video equipment, and have done so FOR DECADES before still cameras were being offered.

My point here is that Sony does what is BEST FOR SONY......and this has been shown over and over again with the way they offer BluRay, PS3, DRM, rootkits, software, cameras, etc.

It is entirely and altogether comical to post here telling Sony how to redesign their cameras.

It entirely ignores and overlooks the fact that Sony has been selling video cameras since the 1960s (my first home video equipment was a 1/2 inch Sony reel-to-reel EIAJ black and white recorder and camera circa 1969.....). Their engineers knew how to take direction from marketing 43 years ago when they designed those Sony video cameras, and have continued to do so for the next 43 years in designing HUNDREDS of other video cameras................

They know COMPLETELY when, how, and why they will either incorporate or DELIBERATELY NOT INCORPORATE specific features.

The assumption that this is something which Sony is likely to change in response to newsgroup or other complaints belongs in the category: ROFLMAO

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=roflmao

Larry

rishi o' Senior Member • Posts: 1,462
Re: Why Memory Stick?

I'm asking for just 10 minutes of continuous video recording without overheating. I don't think that's too much to ask.

relate2 wrote:

You are wasting your time with your bold shouting at Sony on this forum. They make a great video camera if you want more than 30 minutes of video.

Sony is not going to listen to the 5 people out there who want more than 30 minutes of continuous video.
--
http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2

-- hide signature --
rishi o' Senior Member • Posts: 1,462
Re: Why Memory Stick?

Sounds like you would ok and understanding if Sony limited the NEX 7 to just jpeg (no RAW mode) so it didn't compete with the A77.

I'm not okay with them putting out there that the nex 7 can do 30 minutes of video and compete with the panasonic gh2 or canon 60d in video mode where in reality it's falling short because of 3 minute record times.

LSHorwitz1 wrote:

Having owned both a NEX 5 as well as an a55 since their initial introduction, as well as the more recent a77 and NEX-7, I am here to tell you that all of this is YESTERDAY's news.............Sony has been dealing with short video recording time and thermal cycling issues for the entire 1 year and 10 months since the a55 came out.

No doubt, Sony has the engineering prowess to design any type of performance they want from a thermal stand-point. It is NOT rocket science to provide better heat dissipation methods, select higher performance parts, or modify the design in ways which mitigate the problem. I say this as an electrical engineer with 40+ years of design experience.

Marketing decisions regarding which cameras perform which functions is fundemental to the way Sony does business. They sell a ton of video equipment, and have done so FOR DECADES before still cameras were being offered.

My point here is that Sony does what is BEST FOR SONY......and this has been shown over and over again with the way they offer BluRay, PS3, DRM, rootkits, software, cameras, etc.

It is entirely and altogether comical to post here telling Sony how to redesign their cameras.

It entirely ignores and overlooks the fact that Sony has been selling video cameras since the 1960s (my first home video equipment was a 1/2 inch Sony reel-to-reel EIAJ black and white recorder and camera circa 1969.....). Their engineers knew how to take direction from marketing 43 years ago when they designed those Sony video cameras, and have continued to do so for the next 43 years in designing HUNDREDS of other video cameras................

They know COMPLETELY when, how, and why they will either incorporate or DELIBERATELY NOT INCORPORATE specific features.

The assumption that this is something which Sony is likely to change in response to newsgroup or other complaints belongs in the category: ROFLMAO

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=roflmao

Larry

-- hide signature --
Gary H Senior Member • Posts: 2,543
Re: Why Memory Stick?

relate2 wrote:

I hear you Gary but other than releasing some steam here nothing will happen until people start returning their cameras. Companies usually only react to their bottom line.
--

Yup, I returned my NEX-7 to Amazon.. but ordered another.

I agree that Sony knows what it is and isn't doing. They don't seem to have any problem with their SonyStyle stores promising gross overestimated delivery schedules upon which customers base their decision to buy their product and they don't mind knowingly doing a bit of false advertising regarding the video capabilities of their cameras. Maybe there is a reason why people are buying Samsung TVs rather than Sony..etc.

 Gary H's gear list:Gary H's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X100S Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a7 +28 more
Gary H Senior Member • Posts: 2,543
Sony.. Make Believe

I just noticed the Sony ad at the top/right of the page... Sony .. make.believe

If that is their perspective, then I guess that we deserve what we get..

 Gary H's gear list:Gary H's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X100S Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a7 +28 more
mswlogo Senior Member • Posts: 1,029
Re: Sony.. Make Believe

I just tried my Nex-7 for grins.

It recorded 29:50 before it shut it off. I was not there when it shut off. I think it hit it's time limit. It's about 74 degrees and 34% Humidty in the house.

I'm using an SD Card, no case , OEM battery, 60i mode and it was on a Tripod.

Continuous focus was off.

LSHorwitz1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,524
Re: Why Memory Stick?

rishi o' wrote:

Sounds like you would ok and understanding if Sony limited the NEX 7 to just jpeg (no RAW mode) so it didn't compete with the A77.

I'm not okay with them putting out there that the nex 7 can do 30 minutes of video and compete with the panasonic gh2 or canon 60d in video mode where in reality it's falling short because of 3 minute record times.

Rishio

http://www.rishio.com

If Sony chose to only provide JPEG on the NEX-7 but did provide RAW on the a77, I personally would not likely buy the NEX-7, but I think Sony has every right to decide what features to offer and which ones to withold for use on their bigger, better cameras. Sony makes such marketing choices every day, and we, as consumers, make our purchases as a result of these choices.

If, however, they advertise and spec their NEX-7 to do 30 minutes of video yet it fails to meet that spec, then we are talking about an entirely different matter. Then I would say the camera is DEFECTIVE and return it, if my personal needs were to do video using the NEX-7. If all of them had this same fault, then this is the subject of class action lawsuits or mass returns of their products under warranty or both, to say nothing of the bad customer relations this would foster. Perhaps the NEX-7 does indeed claim to record 30 minute video without any warnings or caveats regarding temperature or other limitations but I highly doubt it. If so, I would be very surprised, since they have very well known temperature-related recording time limitations going back to the a55 and first NEX models and would be unlikely to conceal this.

Larry

Lightshow
Lightshow Veteran Member • Posts: 7,727
Re: NEX OVERHEATING:It's Time to Ask Sony

AVC-HD 24P 24M(FX) sn# 022xxxx Lexar 32GB pro 400x
23 minutes till a temperature warning, 29:51 Min:Sec till it ended.

The battery and SD card were not very warm, behind the LCD it was warmer, but not hot.

 Lightshow's gear list:Lightshow's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony a7R Leica Elmarit-M 24mm f/2.8 ASPH Leica APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH Voigtlander 15mm F4.5 Super Wide Heliar +20 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads