Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Started Mar 16, 2012 | Discussions
electrosim2001 Forum Member • Posts: 69
Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

review continued

I own a Panasonic SDT750 as well, also with optical image stabilisation, but I can detect jitter on the screen from its fast vibrating OIS system whereas I can't detect any jitter from the 3D1's OIS. The quality of the OIS is to me a real boon as it is so easy to get really smooth steady shots that are so important when videoing in 3D. The camera has variable focal length lenses but you have to set up your ( 4X zoom lenses ) prior to recording when in 3D video mode. However this is perhaps a benefit as it will stop the annoying video produced by the average amateur who insists on regular zooming, along with hosepipe panning.

Panasonic haven't found a way to deter panning except that it really doesn't look great when you pan the 3D1 camera too quickly. I guess 3D will not handle speedy pans whatever camera is used. Certainly my Samsung TV doesn't like sideways pans.

The colours are accurate and the video is sharp and smooth and of a different order of quality even from that of the excellent Sony Bloggie 3D, being pretty much noise-free. I would say that the video ' is ' noise-free but I haven't any equipment to test the camera and I am just going off my subjective perception from viewing the video on my 51" TV. The stereobase is 30mm and I find this absolutely perfect for good depth and a produces a really natural 3D experience when viewed on TV. The camera is fully automatic when in 3D mode, but fortunately it has an exposure adjustment so that you can reduce/increase exposure in 1/3 stops quite simply. The 2D touch screen camera allows you to put a couple of 'favourite' short-cuts to menus on it and I have this 'exposure control' together with a 3D depth control short-cut, available for instant access. I found the default zero setting gave rise to a little over-exposure in sunlit conditions, so backing off to minus 1/3rd or 2/3rds or a stop even ( up to two stops possible ) can easily sort this out. Conversely, notching up on the plus side will help with back-lit shots.

The other shortcut I use, the 3D depth control, makes possible the forward backward movement of the stereo window. I like the window close so that it appears when viewing the video that you are looking 'into' the scene. The 3D depth control has plus and minus settings and is a very useful and practical feature. Some of the Youtube videos have obviously used the default zero setting so near-to objects jut out of the screen with resultant windows violations and near-to backgrounds appear flush with the screen. I was pleased to discover that this is so easily remedied.

Having a 2D screen obviously means that you have to use your 'expertise' somewhat to gauge the 3D effect but in the main I have found it not to be too difficult although I have had window violations but I'm sure this will be minimised with a little more practise. There is a 3D warning given by the camera when you get too close, and I did overdo the nearness sometimes to get a handle on what happens when you ignore the warning.

The 2D LCD screen is ( surprise, surprise ) not particularly easy to view in bright sunlight, but its being 2D has an advantage for me in that I can use a viewfinder loupe to view the screen and I get to see a clear 2D magnified image which is much better than viewing the Sony Bloggie's lined 3D screen with the loupe. Sound is important for me, and here the Panasonic is no slouch. It records clear stereo audio and doesn't raise background sound as I find happens with the Sony Bloggie 3D when videoing in quiet conditions. I recorded some electronic organ playing and it handled this difficult to record instrument quite well with no overload, although not so well as a Zoom Q3 will do.

The 3D stills that I have taken are of excellent quality but as far as I know you are stuck with recording 2D jpegs alongside the mpos, and this doesn't seem to be able to be disabled in the menu as you can do with the W3. I also found that Magix editor didn't recognise the mpos when I tried to import them, but this could well be me doing something wrong and I haven't really checked this out properly yet. I will have another try and then add my findings to this review. ( see below )

All in all I am absolutely delighted with my purchase and it will be my camcorder of choice, and ( Magix problem being sorted out ... see below ) my camera of choice too to add 3D stills to my video timeline as the 3D ( depth-wise ) is good for both video and stills plus I find also that it is easier to produce anaglyphs that don't need re-aligning than when I use the W3. I will continue to use the W3 for deeper depth 3D stills.

addendum.........I have now managed to import the mpo stills from the 3D1 into Magix video editor, but not natively. I first had to run them through SPM and save as either 960 X 1080 mpos after resizing to anamorphic 50% squashed SBS format or 1920 X 1080 stereo images ( full width SBS )

Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1
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Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,554
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Thanks for the informative, and informed, review.

Can you post a video? Even better, a video raw file from the camera?

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
OP electrosim2001 Forum Member • Posts: 69
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Markr041 wrote:

Thanks for the informative, and informed, review.

Can you post a video? Even better, a video raw file from the camera?

I will upload a file to Youtube this evening. It is a short edited video of stills and video ( mp4 converted from mpos AVCHD using Magix 18 3D editor )

Just the first outing with the camera. Hopefully it give some idea of the quality and in particular the steadiness obtained from the built-in OIS on a fairly windy day too.

I will leave a link this evening.

Herman Dijkhuis Contributing Member • Posts: 873
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Thanks for part 2 !
--
Best regards, Herman
Twitter @hermandijkhuis

Keith Senior Member • Posts: 1,920
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Thought I'd post my own thoughts here after receiving my 3D1 yesterday. I started another topic after noticing some occasion blurriness problems in the right eye/lens, but here goes for my comments :

  • nice compact and light format

  • don't get the need for an on/off button when the camera won't turn on if you don't have the sliding lens cover open in the front...

  • makes for a clean design but not a big fan of the near complete lack of buttons. Two biggest problems : keep tapping the screen by accident so it changes the focus area (can't see a way to disable that) - when I first connected it to my 3DTV via HDMI there were no buttons on the screen to control it as Panasonic think you're going to connect it to their Veira TV (solved in the settings)

  • the miniHDMI (and "microUSB) connectors are behind a small trap door that is hard to open and doesn't flip open completly so I'm not sure how long the small rubber hinges will last before getting teared. That door had a much better design on my TZ7

  • 2D wide angle of 25mm is great, unfortunately in 3D it goes down significantly, 50mm possibly ? This is not great for indoor pictures

  • the 2D dual mode, left/wide and right/x4 zoom is pretty clever, unfortunately you just get two separate pictures, there is no in-camera "stitching"

  • a sweeping panorama mode like on the Sony cams would have been nice

That's all for now

Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,554
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

"2D wide angle of 25mm is great, unfortunately in 3D it goes down significantly, 50mm possibly ? This is not great for indoor pictures."

You are correct that the widest focal length goes up in 3D, but the range in 3D stills is 33 - 132 mm (not 50mm).

For video, the range is 27 - 108 mm in 35mm equiv. That is a trvial difference from 25 mm.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
Keith Senior Member • Posts: 1,920
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

33mm, really ? Can't see it mentioned in the manual but it does appear on Google. Certainly seems like a lot more, possibly because it's in 16:9 so a lot of the top and bottom are cut compared to a 4:3 at 25mm.

Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,554
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

You can shoot 3D in 4:3, in which case the widest angle is 30mm - a far cry from 50mm.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
OP electrosim2001 Forum Member • Posts: 69
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Keith wrote:

  • don't get the need for an on/off button when the camera won't turn on if you don't have the sliding lens cover open in the front...

This feature is potentially useful for three reasons that I can think of.

1. When out and about videoing or taking pics, it saves keep using the sliding panel that could wear out in time. Leave the panel open and just use the on/off button.

2.It is also easier I find to power on and off with the single button press rather than moving the camera down to use both thumbs where I need to hold the camera in a different position to perform the on/off action. Having to change holding positions also gives rise to potential mishap like dropping the camera.

3.If Cycloptical decide to produce an adaptor for the camera it will be possible to fit one over the camera with the panel left open and it will still be possible to switch the camera on and off.

Not related to the above, but separately, another useful design feature is the camera's mics' postions, on top of the camera where it is possible to fit a furry windjammer.

I think that the one design feature where Panasonic did drop the ball is the LED flash siting ( centre of the two lenses ). I took some pics in a ten-pin bowls hall where the lighting was quite gloomy, and mostly where the flash fired, it caused a streak of finger-shaped white-out on the right-hand pictures. The 'finger' extended from the top of the right-hand side of the right-hand picture frames to about three-quarters way down the pictures. On one pic the white streak appeared on the left-hand picture.

On one or two pics there were brightly coloured orbs (in 3D too which is worse than 2D orbs ) where the flash picked up dust particles.

As the camera is very small in size I am not sure whether a re-siting of the LED would have made much difference, but further away from the lenses might have helped. I am surprised that this hasn't been mentioned by others, guessing that this isn't just a fault on my camera.
Any-one else had this problem?

Keith Senior Member • Posts: 1,920
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Yes, you'd mentioned that but I must say I haven't seen that problem in my pictures, the only flash related problem being the fact that it sometimes catches some specs of dust that appear on the pics but I've had that will all my cameras at one time or the other.

"Cycloptical" - not familiar with them, what type of adapter might they offer for the 3D1 ?

Keith Senior Member • Posts: 1,920
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Markr041 wrote:

You can shoot 3D in 4:3, in which case the widest angle is 30mm - a far cry from 50mm.

Certainly doesn't feel like 30mm compared to my 28mm FX100, but since the right lens on my 3D1 isn't working properly I'm sending it back and can't investigate at this time.

Is 30mm something you've calculated yourself using the size of the sensor or comparing with another camera set to 30mm or you're going by some specs?

OP electrosim2001 Forum Member • Posts: 69
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Keith wrote:

Yes, you'd mentioned that but I must say I haven't seen that problem in my pictures, the only flash related problem being the fact that it sometimes catches some specs of dust that appear on the pics but I've had that will all my cameras at one time or the other.

"Cycloptical" - not familiar with them, what type of adapter might they offer for the 3D1 ?

Check out http://www.cyclopital3d.com/FUJI-W3-3D-CAMERA.html

adaptors made for Fujifilm's W3.... but maybe similar might be made for the 3D1

I will have to check out the flash aberration again on my 3D1. Maybe it's a problem just with my camera. I did check it out in two different locations and observed the same problem, but I will try again. Thanks for reporting back that you haven't seen the same thing happen.

Keith Senior Member • Posts: 1,920
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2

Thanks for the link, quite a few interesting (and expensive!) accessories but I didn't see one that I'd require with my, admittedly, limited needs

Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,554
3D1 Flash

My suggestion is to forget flash for 3D; it it almost always bad from all cameras. Indeed, flash pictures to me always look bad compared to natural light in 2D and 3D from any camera.

The 3D1 really does well in low light, because one can use very slow shutter speeds with almost no blur (the OIS is really good). Here is the worst example from a dimly-lit museum series - ISO640 at 1/8th shutter:

While you can see some grain and NR, there is absolutely no lack of sharpness due to blur. And in 3D one does not even notice the grain.

Here is another, at 1/13th shutter, ISO400, where you can read the letters to check blur:

Almost all the shots required shutter speeds between q1/8th and 1/15th. I will post the 3D later from the series in a Youtube video slide show of the 3D stills.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
OP electrosim2001 Forum Member • Posts: 69
Re: 3D1 Flash

Markr041 wrote:

My suggestion is to forget flash for 3D; it it almost always bad from all cameras. Indeed, flash pictures to me always look bad compared to natural light in 2D and 3D from any camera.

The 3D1 really does well in low light, because one can use very slow shutter speeds with almost no blur

Your shots are excellent. I won't be using flash again : ))

Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,554
Re: 3D1 Flash

For animate objects - kids posing or candids - flash may be necesary, but the look to me is not very good (deer in headlights, red-eye, etc.).

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
Keith Senior Member • Posts: 1,920
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2 - Updated

So I had to give the 3D1 another try after the first one that had a blur in the right "eye".

No such problems with this one (refurbished) although at first it refused to complete the 3D calbration...a factory reset solved the problem for some reason.

Having had the W3 for 2 months now I think I'm in a good position to compare both. My biggest problem with the W3 is it's lack of a real wide-angle with its 39mm 3D in 16:9, that's really a problem when we've been spoilt by 25mm for some time now. No such problem with the 3D1 of course and if you really need the max WA for some interior photography, a switch to 2D/4:3 gets you there.

Video is of course better than on the W3 too with the much more efficient AVCHD codec. It's ligter and smaller as well although it doesn't make a huge difference in the field.

It would be perfect if :

  • it had a 3D screen

  • if had more 3D depth, but that's why there is more WA so I can compromise, at times the depth doesn't appear as "natural" as on the W3 too.

  • it didn't often display "blooming" in high contrast situations with the resulting picture giving the impression of having been "blinded" by headlights. The W3 doesn't have that problem so I suppose Panasonic are using a sensor with limited dynamic range.

That last problem is what's keeping me from considering it as a "keeper" for now.

Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,554
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2 - Updated

Can you show us (2D is fine) one of the "blooming" examples?

I have not noticed it in my pictures, but maybe I missed this.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
Keith Senior Member • Posts: 1,920
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2 - Updated

Yes, let me put some comparison pictures together.

Keith Senior Member • Posts: 1,920
Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1 short review... part 2 - Updated - Blooming

Blooming top left on 3D1

Comparison 1: W3 - 2:3D1 : I'm not sure what's going on exactly, (more sharpening on W3 ?) but the W3 picture is a tad more "pleasing" to me...

I think I'm going to have to make up my mind to stick to one camera because it's rather confusing to shoot pictures with several cameras. The 3D1 is clearly more versatile but it's 4x zoom is a tad short...I' be happy even with some intelligent digital zooming it would help. If not I'll have to keep dragging along my Sony HX5V...that also has a built-in GPS, too many choices !

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