Tethering the new iPad to Nikon DSLRs

Started Mar 8, 2012 | Discussions
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,396
Re: What I consider weak is...

Michael Firstlight wrote:

I am using it with my tablet - so I don't understand you comment that it doesn't work with tablets.

Now if you consider Windows tablets not to be tablets, then that is another story. Are you saying that only iOS are tablets? Andriod? There are millions of Windows tablets from multiple makers - and that is not beginning to explode and Win tablets will quickly become dominant simply due to the overwhelming Windows base. That is why Apple stock is dropping now.

Actually, I think that is pretty unlikely. There is a market survey here that sees the 'doze portion of the tablet market rising from 2.9% this year to 10.2% in 2016. That essentially means nowhere, and it will die. I would be very surprised if it did even that well. Apple stock is dropping in the main due to what is seen as the threat from Android. The dynamic will be somewhat the reverse, with tablets (non 'doze') ultimately taking over the desktops.

So to generalize and say the solution doesn't work with tablets? I don't think so.

It doesn't work with 97% of tablets. Better?

-- hide signature --

Bob

Michael Firstlight Veteran Member • Posts: 3,687
Re: What I consider weak is...

Yes, 97% is better.  But don't underestimate the Win market....it will likely grow and I think quite substantially - there are a lot of folks that want their Win apps and a tablet.

Mike

 Michael Firstlight's gear list:Michael Firstlight's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D850 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR +29 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,396
Re: What I consider weak is...

Michael Firstlight wrote:

Yes, 97% is better. But don't underestimate the Win market....it will likely grow and I think quite substantially - there are a lot of folks that want their Win apps and a tablet.

I don't believe that I am underestimating the 'Win market'. I think it will decline with the conventional desktop PC. Already, you see around more MacBooks than Wintel Laptops, and that is even with a substantial price premium. There may be a lot of folks that want their MS apps on a tablet, but I think in the end most realise that is not an attractive option, firstly because the apps are not designed for a tablet and don't work well (one of the reasons that MS's own Tablet PC initiative bombed) with a keyboardless, mouseless, apparently fileless UI, secondly because better cheaper apps are available on Apple and Android markets (and remember, you have to buy a new licence to run the app on your tablet) and finally, because every attempt at a phone or tablet OS that MS had tried so far has been so terrible that it bombs before it can gain any traction in the marketplace. See how it is now dragging down Nokia. The effect is twofold, firstly the apps that are now only on 'doze become quickly available on other OS and also people think hard about whether it really is worthwhile to have something so awful just to run an app or two.

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Bob

Michael Firstlight Veteran Member • Posts: 3,687
Re: What I consider weak is...

Well, as a SW developer for multiple platforms, I can assure there exists a massive installed base on WinTel.  Add to that a massive corporate/enterprise base that is mostly WinTel - and you've got a serious market for Win tablets - it is that sample, not just the business end, but the derivative purchases made by employees wanting to remain compatible with their employer's platforms. If you look at it from only a consumer view you are seeing only a partial picture.

It is not a matter of what you or I think is better, it is what the market wants.  Guess we'll see in the next year or two just how big the Win Tablet market will be and what percentage it will take in that market.  Predict away and we'll revisit it next year at this time

Regards,
Mike

 Michael Firstlight's gear list:Michael Firstlight's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D850 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR +29 more
slidewilson Regular Member • Posts: 248
Re: What I consider weak is...
1

Hi Michael,

I've been following this thread since its inception but some of the tech-speak is a bit past my knowledge. If I'm right, I think we're comparing two different wireless/tethering systems (or more?) that offer differ things. Could you confirm or correct for me the wireless/tethering options as being:

1) Camranger (discussed previously): Positives: Some great features for connectivity that seem to have the answer for what a lot of professionals want when tethering/wireless controlling. An iOS app that seems to be very well-designed. Downside: price @ $300. Are there other perceived downsides to this product? Strength of signal as well?

2) Your wireless option: a stronger network at a much lower price ($130?). Downsides: A fair amount of knowledge required and some DIY. Not entirely clear what tablets are supported and how that works.

3) Another option?

Am I on the right track? Would be interesting to make a straight pros-and-cons chart on this one. Please enlighten me.. and please use the "talk to me like I'm 5 years old" approach regarding the tech stuff

Thanks!

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,396
Re: What I consider weak is...

Michael Firstlight wrote:

Well, as a SW developer for multiple platforms, I can assure there exists a massive installed base on WinTel. Add to that a massive corporate/enterprise base that is mostly WinTel - and you've got a serious market for Win tablets - it is that sample, not just the business end, but the derivative purchases made by employees wanting to remain compatible with their employer's platforms. If you look at it from only a consumer view you are seeing only a partial picture.

I certainly am not looking at it from only a consumer point of view. I have been in and around the business long enough to know how the mighty fall, and how fast it happens. Tablets already have a huge inroad in corporate business, mostly Apple ones. That is without running Windows. It is unlikely and too late for windows tablets to supplant that, certainly too late for them to make inroads into the corporate mobile phone market. They simply have nothing to offer that the others  don't already. And you misunderstand how major corporations manage their software portfolios, it isn't a matter of some individual deciding that he'd like to run his apps on his tablet, in fact mostly corporations try to stop that.

It is not a matter of what you or I think is better, it is what the market wants.

Indeed, and to date the market, even the corporate ones, have shown no sign of wanting 'doze tablets. All the same arguments apply to smartphones, and the MS ones have comprehensively bombed.

Guess we'll see in the next year or two just how big the Win Tablet market will be and what percentage it will take in that market. Predict away and we'll revisit it next year at this time

Less than 10%. Probably much less.

-- hide signature --

Bob

Michael Firstlight Veteran Member • Posts: 3,687
Re: What I consider weak is...

The Wireless USB DIY option is only for Windows-based tablets, laptops, desktops etc (XP through Win8).  It is a relatively inexpensive DIY solution and far faster than anything else you can buy or make and extremely reliable.  It can transfer very large RAW and very large JPEG files fast enough to use in a real production environment - the others not so well. A down side it that it is great - up to say 30 feet and it has no support for iPad/iPhone/iOS/Mac.  What I am sharing is not something I invented; I learned about it from someone else's blog a long time ago (Pete's Ramblings) and it worked exactly as he Pete advertised.  One reason I push it on the forums is to continue generating enough interest that the camera makers or 3rd parties will finally pay attention and build us some decent wireless offerings. I've even lobbied Nikon for a few years directly.

ControlMyNikon works for both Windows and Apple devices, is professionally packaged (but a bit bulky too), had a plethora of really useful options, and works at greater distances than the DIY Wireless USB2 option.  It is however an wireless network (802.11n) based solution but seems pretty fast in the demos I've seen.

802.11n-based options have a top speed of 300Mbps.  Wireless USB2 has a top speed of 480Mbps. Most 802.11n based products I've seen don't get close to the 300Mbps spec - maybe ControlMyNikon does - but I don't own one to test it out.  What matters is how many seconds does it take to transfer a large RAW or large JPEG file (or both at the same time as I do).  he Wireless USB2 is really fast and transfers BOTH pairs in about 4-6 seconds within 20-30 feet.  That is fast - and I'd like to see any 802.11n based solution come close to that.

$200 for ControlMyNikon?  Man, I think that's a great price for what it does.  I have both a Windows-based tablet and an iPad3 and I plan to get the ControlMyNikon for my iPad.

I had the latest EyeFi and it just wasn't reliable and image transfer hung often, network drop outs and so on.  I sold it after trying to make it work reliably for months - and I know computer networking at very deep levels as a computer engineer.  The best I could do was have it work somewhat OK with only the very smallest or JPEG files from a 12MP DSLR - forget about large JPEGs or RAW file transfer unless you have extreme patience.

The Nikon WT-5a works for the D4 but even that is only 802.11n based and costs $800.

Some newer cameras are coming out with less expensive options but again, are mostly based on 802.11n WiFi.  I don't have anything against WiFi-based solutions as they do provide much greater working distance, but we need some real speed for the large files most of our cameras produce if you don't have time to wait upto a half a minute or more for a single large RAW or large JPEG file to transfer. Maybe these camera makers or the people that make what appears to be a winner product like ControlMyNikon will make faster versions sooner than later based on the new 802.11ac standard and we'll all enjoy wireless image transfer far faster than anything we can buy or build today.

Regards,
Mike

 Michael Firstlight's gear list:Michael Firstlight's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D850 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR +29 more
Michael Firstlight Veteran Member • Posts: 3,687
Re: What I consider weak is...

Guess we will see!

Regards,
Mike

 Michael Firstlight's gear list:Michael Firstlight's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D850 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR +29 more
Ralf Ronander
Ralf Ronander Contributing Member • Posts: 796
Re: Alternaives

And not forgetting the superiorLV implementation in Canon´s.

The D800 LV really makes tehtered shooting a pain.

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,396
Re: Alternaives

Ralf Ronander wrote:

And not forgetting the superiorLV implementation in Canon´s.

The D800 LV really makes tehtered shooting a pain.

I'll report back when I've tried it. The LV is something Nikon could fix in a firmware release, so it's worth tracking to see if they feel moved to do so.

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Bob

Ralf Ronander
Ralf Ronander Contributing Member • Posts: 796
Re: Alternaives

bobn2 wrote:

Ralf Ronander wrote:

And not forgetting the superiorLV implementation in Canon´s.

The D800 LV really makes tehtered shooting a pain.

I'll report back when I've tried it. The LV is something Nikon could fix in a firmware release, so it's worth tracking to see if they feel moved to do so.

I´m sure they could fix 2 of the 4 major problems - buffering and exposure simulation - in a FW update - but after all these months I´m starting to lose hope they ever will.

The 3rd - shutter lag - I don´t think they can fix, I think it´s a HW limitation. The 4th - zooming interpolation - I don´t know.

Dewcal Regular Member • Posts: 401
Using Oliadata W USB

Finally got the package from the German shop link that was posted earlier in this thread - many thanks.

Installation of the wireless USB drivers on a Win 7 64bit laptop was painless - despite the fairly rudimentary start up guide - literally put in the small CD and follwo the instructions.

Have tried the dongles out on both a Canon G10 and and Nikon D4 to good effect with PSRemote and NKRemote software from Breeze Systems.  Connection is fairly instant and first trails showed that a 33Mb raw file would download from the D4 in about 8 seconds.  This seems slower than others have reported so I will be looking at this again - may be software related?

Have just downloaded a trial of "Control my Nikon" so will see if there is any difference there.

I use both the above cameras during the photo course I give so being able to avoid a couple of cables around a floor will be a great help in avoiding people tripping over them (they can just kick the tripod legs instead....)!

Have a USB power brick, so am now waiting for a USB to 3.5mm barrel plug to arrive to avoid using the supplied mains adaptor.

Will be experimenting with the distance I can transmit / receive over the next few days to see if it will go down the garden or for use in the field.

Thanks again to those who helped me get to this stage.

HTH

Dave

GMack Senior Member • Posts: 2,928
Re: Using Oliadata W USB

Dewcal wrote:

... Have just downloaded a trial of "Control my Nikon" so will see if there is any difference there.

I have that software and it works fine indoors.

However, outside in the desert it is a major pain to use in sunlight.  Cannot even see the screen to try and focus.  I cranked the brightness up full on the Fujitsu laptop and it still wouldn't be bright enough.  I resorted to going under my black-lined jacket (like some old 4x5 view camera cloth) in the 105 heat and it was still too washed out and cumbersome to use. Then the camera's shot capability drops dramatically due to the use of Live View, as well as struggling to see the computer screen with the brightness cranked to full.

I doubt if any color LCD screen in the desert sun would work, especially for trying to discern focus or any color issues without some sort of hood that works.  Fwiw, I cannot use the PCB CyberCommander wireless flash trigger in the desert either (Its color LCD screen is a total washout in sunlight - and its batteries die too quick with it cranked up to full brightness too.).

Meanwhile, back to the viewfinder...  Ugh!

Mack

michaeladawson Forum Pro • Posts: 13,112
Re: Using Oliadata W USB

Dewcal wrote:

Finally got the package from the German shop link that was posted earlier in this thread - many thanks.

Installation of the wireless USB drivers on a Win 7 64bit laptop was painless - despite the fairly rudimentary start up guide - literally put in the small CD and follwo the instructions.

Have tried the dongles out on both a Canon G10 and and Nikon D4 to good effect with PSRemote and NKRemote software from Breeze Systems. Connection is fairly instant and first trails showed that a 33Mb raw file would download from the D4 in about 8 seconds. This seems slower than others have reported so I will be looking at this again - may be software related?

33 MB for a D4 raw file?  Are you shooting uncompressed RAW?  My D800 files are lossless compressed raw and are around 42 MB.  And they take about 8 seconds to transfer.  Rough estimate

Have just downloaded a trial of "Control my Nikon" so will see if there is any difference there.

I use both the above cameras during the photo course I give so being able to avoid a couple of cables around a floor will be a great help in avoiding people tripping over them (they can just kick the tripod legs instead....)!

Have a USB power brick, so am now waiting for a USB to 3.5mm barrel plug to arrive to avoid using the supplied mains adaptor.

Will be experimenting with the distance I can transmit / receive over the next few days to see if it will go down the garden or for use in the field.

I don't think you should expect much range.  I am experiencing a range of about 25 feet tops indoors.  More like 20 feet.  I think the specs only state something like 33 feet don't they?

I'm using the Cables Unlimited set but I think they are basically the same hardware.

Also worth noting to those interested...  I have installed the drivers on a Windows 8 tablet and the receiver does not work.  It actually appears like it's working but is unable to detect and recognize the transmitter device in the camera.  Another forum member on here has confirmed my findings on his Windows 8 device.

Thanks again to those who helped me get to this stage.

HTH

Dave

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Mike Dawson

 michaeladawson's gear list:michaeladawson's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D7200 Nikon D5 Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm X-H1 +30 more
Michael Firstlight Veteran Member • Posts: 3,687
Re: Using Oliadata W USB

Michael and I have confirmed the same thing - the solutions are likely based on the same technology from WisAis Corp (which appears to be the OEM for both).  The wireless USB solution works well up to 25 feet which is fine for most indoor studios but not beyond that distance.  I've revered to Windows 7 for exactly the reasons Michael cites - the drivers work fine on Windows 7 (32 or 64-bit), but don't work on Windows 8.  Since WisAir is still in business and the OEM I wrote WisAir to see if they can have the driver updated for Win8 and awaiting a response.

Regards,
Mike

 Michael Firstlight's gear list:Michael Firstlight's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D850 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR +29 more
Dewcal Regular Member • Posts: 401
Re: Using Oliadata W USB

GMack, Michael & Michael,

Many thanks for comments.

Control my Nikon not yet tried - still have Xmas relatives so little opportunity for play! Hopefully next week. I have been very happy with NKRemote from Breeze Systems - I was wondering if CmyN was any quicker for download, which is only reason I downloaded it.  No idea how it works in the desert sun - here in the UK more likely to try it as a submersible with the rain we have had for the last while!

Was trying an uncompressed D4 raw file only - worst case scenario.  If it works across the studio / lecture rooms then I will be quite content.  I have USB 2 cable that goes to about 60 feet when required for my telescopic mast.  Thanks for your download times, it seems we are not too far apart.

Thanks for heads up about not working with Windows 8 - am still on Win 7 but have just started main PC as dual boot with Win 8 and now that I have got rid of the tiles and can go straight into desktop, I will be checking it out a bit more.  Will be interested if they ever issue updated drivers for Win 8.

Thanks again for comments.

Dave

E Nonymous
E Nonymous New Member • Posts: 7
Re: Tethering the new iPad to Nikon DSLRs

Doubt the Eye-Fi would allow you any access beyond rudimentary HTTP or FTP support without some custom coded shenanigans. Someone said Ipad has problem with the Raw format, just to contrast that info, I tested an X2 Pro unit today and the Droid app works great on a galaxy tab 2 with 10 inch screen. Images came out clear and easy to see in raw format using a Nikon D800E.

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