5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

Started Mar 3, 2012 | Discussions
D E Mitchel New Member • Posts: 7
5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

I am at a tipping point where I can buy either a Canon 5d mk III or a Nikon D800. My two interests are architecture and landscape.

Most of the time I shoot at about 24mm.
Very seldom do I use a telephoto.

I want intuitive camera controls, as when I am stressed by the controls my creativity goes away completely. My Canon T2i drives me insane looking for specific menu settings. My old Canon F1 still produces better images for me than the T2i because it is so simple.

Subjects I typically shoot:

1)Industrial architectural documentation photography -- need high detail in highlights and shadows.

2)Cathedral interiors (stained glass and masonry very high contrast subjects) but shutter noise is a big problem to people who are there to worship--no flash ever. ;

3)After sunset desert landscapes with a near/far relationship of objects in the foreground and hard rock mountains in the distance.

In most situations I will have a tripod/monopod so no need for speed. If I shoot multiple shots it is for HDR.

Images will be digested in Photoshop.

Here is how I see the trade-offs:

The new Canon has four architectural lenses available, 17, 24, 40, 90. Hopefully, it will correct wide angle color fringe errors in camera. Weather sealed?

The Nikon may have a sensor with a bit more lattitude. Pixel size about at the limit of good optics. Is known to be able to correct for color fringe errors. Nikon has high quality wide angle zooms. One architectural 24mm lens. Weather sealed?

Which to choose?

Your advice much appreciated.

D E Mitchel

 D E Mitchel's gear list:D E Mitchel's gear list
Sony Alpha a7R
Canon EOS 550D (EOS Rebel T2i / EOS Kiss X4) Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 5D Mark III Nikon D800
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hunk
hunk Veteran Member • Posts: 3,227
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

In your specific case the question is, do you go for the 800 or the 800e?

The Nikon has an an amazing 14-24 available and is €600,- cheaper.

The Canon could be your choice if you want one of the great ts-e lenses available.

D E Mitchel wrote:

I am at a tipping point where I can buy either a Canon 5d mk III or a Nikon D800. My two interests are architecture and landscape.

Most of the time I shoot at about 24mm.
Very seldom do I use a telephoto.

I want intuitive camera controls, as when I am stressed by the controls my creativity goes away completely. My Canon T2i drives me insane looking for specific menu settings. My old Canon F1 still produces better images for me than the T2i because it is so simple.

Subjects I typically shoot:

1)Industrial architectural documentation photography -- need high detail in highlights and shadows.

2)Cathedral interiors (stained glass and masonry very high contrast subjects) but shutter noise is a big problem to people who are there to worship--no flash ever. ;

3)After sunset desert landscapes with a near/far relationship of objects in the foreground and hard rock mountains in the distance.

In most situations I will have a tripod/monopod so no need for speed. If I shoot multiple shots it is for HDR.

Images will be digested in Photoshop.

Here is how I see the trade-offs:

The new Canon has four architectural lenses available, 17, 24, 40, 90. Hopefully, it will correct wide angle color fringe errors in camera. Weather sealed?

The Nikon may have a sensor with a bit more lattitude. Pixel size about at the limit of good optics. Is known to be able to correct for color fringe errors. Nikon has high quality wide angle zooms. One architectural 24mm lens. Weather sealed?

Which to choose?

Your advice much appreciated.

D E Mitchel

 hunk's gear list:hunk's gear list
Leica M9 Canon Extender EF 2x II Sony 135mm F2.8 (T4.5) STF Sigma 14mm F1.8 Art
svenler Junior Member • Posts: 37
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

In the past I would have said either Nikon or Canon will serve you well.

However, looking at the sample pictures from the 5D Mark III, I would not recommend that camera to anyone. Unless the 5D performs much better in real life than in those samples, it's an epic fail.

Waldemar Senior Member • Posts: 1,196
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

I´ve got the 17mm TS-E with 5D II and it´s a great combination. One of the best lenses I´ve ever used (including medium format and Plaubel ProShift).
-----------------------------------------------------------

Waldemar

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 57,709
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

hunk wrote:

In your specific case the question is, do you go for the 800 or the 800e?

The Nikon has an an amazing 14-24 available and is €600,- cheaper.

The Canon could be your choice if you want one of the great ts-e lenses available.

Nikon has PC-E lenses at 24, 45 and 85. They can't match the Canon 17mm TS-E.
--
Bob

stephenmelvin Veteran Member • Posts: 4,547
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

D E Mitchel wrote:

I am at a tipping point where I can buy either a Canon 5d mk III or a Nikon D800. My two interests are architecture and landscape.

Most of the time I shoot at about 24mm.
Very seldom do I use a telephoto.

I want intuitive camera controls, as when I am stressed by the controls my creativity goes away completely. My Canon T2i drives me insane looking for specific menu settings. My old Canon F1 still produces better images for me than the T2i because it is so simple.

The 5D series is much, much more intuitive than the Rebels. Want to see a horrendous user interface? Look at the Nikon D3000 sometime.

The higher end Nikons, like the higher end Canons, have superior user interfaces. I personally prefer Canon's, finding it easy to use. But that's a matter of personal preference, to be sure.

Subjects I typically shoot:

1)Industrial architectural documentation photography -- need high detail in highlights and shadows.

How much detail? On paper, the D800 ought to hold the advantage here. Testing will confirm or deny this. What's unknown is the dynamic range of the two sensors. Sample pics from the D800 show posterization in the shadows, but those are jpegs, so we don't know whether that affects the raw images or not.

My guess is that they won't, and that the camera will produce excellent images.

2)Cathedral interiors (stained glass and masonry very high contrast subjects) but shutter noise is a big problem to people who are there to worship--no flash ever. ;

Canon's Live View mode is great for this. I think Nikon finally modernized their live view mode for the D800 and D4 to be comparable. Previous Nikons have had clunky live view modes.

3)After sunset desert landscapes with a near/far relationship of objects in the foreground and hard rock mountains in the distance.

In most situations I will have a tripod/monopod so no need for speed. If I shoot multiple shots it is for HDR.

Images will be digested in Photoshop.

Here is how I see the trade-offs:

The new Canon has four architectural lenses available, 17, 24, 40, 90. Hopefully, it will correct wide angle color fringe errors in camera. Weather sealed?

Nobody makes a weather sealed T/S lens. The Canon 24 (version II) is spectacular, and the 17 is unique. The camera does have built-in lens corrections, though Canon's new TS-E lenses probably don't need it. They're that good.

Come to think of it, I don't think it's possible to correct a T/S lens in camera, because of all the variables.

The Nikon may have a sensor with a bit more lattitude. Pixel size about at the limit of good optics. Is known to be able to correct for color fringe errors. Nikon has high quality wide angle zooms. One architectural 24mm lens. Weather sealed?

Nikon's WA zooms are definitely better than Canon's. I have no idea how well the 24mm T/S lens performs, but I suspect it's very good. The zoom will be sealed, but not the tilt-shift. As noted, the zooms will be correctable, but not the T/S lenses.

Which to choose?

The D800 would seem to hold the detail advantage and be tailor-made for your needs, assuming it performs better in the shadows than the samples so far have shown. I think it will.

Canon has a larger TS lens lineup, and for your needs, the built-in HDR mode could be something to look at very, very closely. It looks like a very impressive in-camera solution.

The question you need to answer is whether 22mp will satisfy your needs, or do you really need 36mp?

Your advice much appreciated.

D E Mitchel

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chopsteeks Senior Member • Posts: 1,443
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

This is a no brainer....

D800 ---- cheaper and more megapixels....

Canon lens prices getting jack'd up by Canon lately too.....

OP D E Mitchel New Member • Posts: 7
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

Thanks, I did not know about the 45 and 85mm tilt shift. DEM

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OP D E Mitchel New Member • Posts: 7
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

Thank you for your considerate response. Should have said D800E.

DEM

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LMCasey Contributing Member • Posts: 851
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

If you dont have a big investment in EF lenses, the decision may not be so hard.

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gdanmitchell
gdanmitchell Veteran Member • Posts: 7,730
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

Buy your next camera from whichever brand you already use.

Dan

stephenmelvin Veteran Member • Posts: 4,547
D800E and Architecture

D E Mitchel wrote:

Thank you for your considerate response. Should have said D800E.

DEM

You're welcome.

I would under no circumstances recommend the D800E for architecture. That is a recipe for quality-destroying aliasing and moiré. On this account, it's a much easier call. Get the standard D800 or the 5D Mk III (or perhaps even the Mk II).

-- hide signature --
clk_walker Senior Member • Posts: 1,045
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

Is the Canon T2i adequate? If not why did you buy it? Are you making money being a photographer using a Canon T2i ? You make up your own mind. Coming to this forum will never, well all most never, provide you any useful info own camera bodies particualarly C vs N.
--
A bird in the viewfinder is worth...

Seaclam Senior Member • Posts: 1,703
Wait for Canon to come out with a high MP model

That's what I'm doing. The 5D3(actually should be a 5D2n and at $2700) shows me that Canon either has another model lined up with more MP's OR their current sensor technology is not up to anything more and it may be some time before a new sensor technology is introduced after Canon is through milking the current one.

-- hide signature --

Photography, like many other hobbies, persuits and art forms, is first and foremost about having fun and exploring.

kewlguy
kewlguy Senior Member • Posts: 1,942
Re: D800E and Architecture

I use my M9 extensively for architecture, moire is not a problem (only a few occassionaly), D800E will be even less problematic I guess (it still has AA filter)
--

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Mike K Veteran Member • Posts: 5,525
Re:Canon Vs Nikon Tilt Shift for landscape and architecture

bobn2 wrote:

The Canon could be your choice if you want one of the great ts-e lenses available.

Nikon has PC-E lenses at 24, 45 and 85. They can't match the Canon 17mm TS-E.

The Niikon PCE lenses do not have the capability to independently rotate the shift and tilt axes with respect to one another. I find this an important feature present in both the 24 TSE II and 17 TSE lenses that dramatically increases their capability as landscape-architecture tools. to me this is significant enabling capability that the Nikon lens stable does not have, and I use shift and tilt lens movements on at least half of my landscape-architecture shots.

Of course Nikon does not have an equivalent to the Canon 17 TSE.

Also seems to me the 24 TSE II is a bit better optically than the Nikon PCE 24, but I dont recall seeing tests of the Nikon PC E lenses. The lack of CA on the Canon 24 TSE is pretty remarkable. See the lens test on DPR.

Another feature of the Canon bodies that is very useful for tilt shift lens use is a good Live View shooting mode which improves upon MLU. In Canons LV Silent Shooting mode, fine adjustments of tilt and focus are done with LV SS at 5-10X magnification, by moving the magnification rectangle about anywhere in the frame, like a loupe on the back of 4x5 ground glass. This is super critical to get this right, comparing the sharpness of the foreground corner to the background, and a crisp LV presentation on the LCD really helps. When you shoot from this mode the camera grabs exposure from the sensor (the magnification area) and neither the mirror nor shutter move. Thus electronic first curtain has less vibration than the corresponding Nikon MLU. In the Nikon implementation of LV shooting, the mirror has to descend to allow the exposure sensor to grab a reading. This causes mirror slap, so MLU with a 2 sec delay must be added. In the Nikon system the shutter opening begins the exposure, whereas in the Canon system its fully electronic.

I have not read anything to verify if the D800 has changed its LV shooting from previous Nikon bodies, but I assume not as it means abandoning the exposure sensor.
Mike K

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PicPocket Veteran Member • Posts: 3,865
Re: do you have a date?

Seaclam wrote:

That's what I'm doing.

how long will you do that?
Besides, if someone wants a camera now, waiting indefinitely isn't going to help

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Nic Granleese New Member • Posts: 1
Re:Canon Vs Nikon Tilt Shift for landscape and architecture
1

I think the D800 creates a dilemma because it's one hell of a camera for architectural photography with incrediable shadow detail almost matching medium format cameras (check out this comparison http://youtu.be/9UBTE4xpvpk), but the Nikon live view is poor (important for acute focusing) and the Nikon tilt shift lens line up is lacking compared to Canon's (no 17mm TSE in the Nikon range, not to mention independent movements).

So do you go for shadow detail and pixels or for lenses and live view / focusing?

I'm currently a Canon shooter and have seriously been considering the switch because of the D800. I have investigated using canon lenses on a Nikon body but it turns out that it only works the other way (Nikon lenses can use adapters for canon bodies, but it doesn't work in reverse). I'm not holding my breath for canon to match the Nikon D800 as canon seems to be focusing on speed and Iso. My best compramise at the moment is to get a D800 with a 24mm TSE and a Canon 5D iii with 17mm TSE. It's definitely not a cheap option, but the best DSLR kit I can come up with for architecture.

riknash Veteran Member • Posts: 6,866
Re:Canon Vs Nikon Tilt Shift for landscape and architecture

Nic Granleese wrote:

I think the D800 creates a dilemma because it's one hell of a camera for architectural photography with incrediable shadow detail almost matching medium format cameras (check out this comparison http://youtu.be/9UBTE4xpvpk), but the Nikon live view is poor (important for acute focusing) and the Nikon tilt shift lens line up is lacking compared to Canon's (no 17mm TSE in the Nikon range, not to mention independent movements).

So do you go for shadow detail and pixels or for lenses and live view / focusing?

I'm currently a Canon shooter and have seriously been considering the switch because of the D800. I have investigated using canon lenses on a Nikon body but it turns out that it only works the other way (Nikon lenses can use adapters for canon bodies, but it doesn't work in reverse). I'm not holding my breath for canon to match the Nikon D800 as canon seems to be focusing on speed and Iso. My best compramise at the moment is to get a D800 with a 24mm TSE and a Canon 5D iii with 17mm TSE. It's definitely not a cheap option, but the best DSLR kit I can come up with for architecture.

Wow! Although still relevant, I'm not sure the OP is still hanging around  indecisively waiting to make up their mind.

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Dan_168 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,300
Re: 5d3 or D800 for landscape and architecture

D E Mitchel wrote:

I am at a tipping point where I can buy either a Canon 5d mk III or a Nikon D800. My two interests are architecture and landscape.

If resolution and Dynamic Range is high on your list then it's a no brainer to go with the D800E as landscape cam, at least that's what I do as a dual system user and landscape shooter, previously 5D2, 1DS2 and D3 shooter and now shooting with D800E only for landscape and everything else with 1DS2, 1DS3 and 1D2. 5D3 is not even on my consideration list as landscape cam after playing with it, coming from 5D2, the so called "improvement " on the 5D3 doesn't provide me any benefit at all to my landscape work, AF improvement is one major update on the 5D3, but I am shooting with Zeiss and TSE 99% of the time for landscape work, so that AF improvement is useless for me, high ISO is also useless for me as I shoot ISO 100 on tripod 99% of time for landscape, what I want to see is huge step up in the DR and ISO 100 shadow performance department, which is exactly where I found in the the D800E. However, for architecture the TSE 17 and TSE 24 II is a good reason to stick with the Canon system, at least until Nikon come up with a PC-E 17 and a updated PCE24,  I don't do architecture but love those two TSE for landscape works, so my two TSE is  taking a short vacation in the closet now until the next Canon high resolution high DR FF body arrives, if that will ever happened.

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