Canon have got it right with 5d3... from ex-Canon user

Started Mar 2, 2012 | Discussions
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Digital Click Regular Member • Posts: 323
Canon have got it right with 5d3... from ex-Canon user

Hi All

I had been using Canon digital for years but changed to Nikon system because MY requirements for photography were mainly for low light/no flash and needed good iso and also fast and better AF - I have problem with my eyes and really rely on camera. The 5d2 did not offer the benefits of Nikon D700 except high res and video.

However with this new 5d3 claiming better AF and initial report of 2 stops better iso capability this is the ideal camera. 22 MP is more than enough and for many means existing storage facilities/workflow etc will remain the same but you will overall get a much better camera - apart from some niggles, the 5d2 is still top rate SLR.

With the Nikon D800, a fine camera I am sure, but at 36MP people just keep talking about that iso is as good as D700 when downsampled. I much rather have a 22mp than gives me better iso than having to downsample to lower MP!

Whatever digital workflow we use, digital image post-production takes time - my MacPro system will handle the RAw 12MP files I am using... not sure about 36 though. I always keep the original RAW images after conversion to jpg but don't like the idea of having to cater for x3 more storage and having to possibly spend more money on faster processor - Macs are not cheap!

I think you Canon guys have it good with the new 5d - certainly if this camera was available 2 years ago I would not have changed - just loved my Canon 70-200 F4is lens and Nikon have no equivalent which is a shame.

If Nikon had a 22mp D800, with even the same iso performance of the D700 without downsampling to get it, I would have been in line for one.

Wonder how many potential buyers of Canon 1dx might now opt for 5d3.

TK

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Peter 13 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,301
Re: Canon have got it right with 5d3... from ex-Canon user

Digital Click wrote:

With the Nikon D800, a fine camera I am sure, but at 36MP people just keep talking about that iso is as good as D700 when downsampled. I much rather have a 22mp than gives me better iso than having to downsample to lower MP!

You do not have to downsample anything . Those claims are coming from people stupid enough to compare images at 100% zoom.

kimvette
kimvette Senior Member • Posts: 1,293
Re: Canon have got it right with 5d3... from ex-Canon user

Peter 13 wrote:

Digital Click wrote:

With the Nikon D800, a fine camera I am sure, but at 36MP people just keep talking about that iso is as good as D700 when downsampled. I much rather have a 22mp than gives me better iso than having to downsample to lower MP!

You do not have to downsample anything . Those claims are coming from people stupid enough to compare images at 100% zoom.

. . . or from people who need a 100% crop (think astrophotography, wildlife, etc).

But even then, both cameras are fine. Contrast that to the 5D mk II or the 7D, where ISO 3200 is the highest usable setting (and usable is a stretch unless exposure is spot on), ISO 6400 works in a pinch, and 12,800 in an "emergency" where you're going to downscale by 75% or more.

If the 5D mk III delivers what the specs promise, it will be a fantastic camera. The same will be true of the D800 as well, I'm sure. Either one is a great choice.

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bronxbombers Forum Pro • Posts: 18,226
don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

do not believe the 2 stops better, that is just because of JPG NR making watercolors out of the images

and they mention no low iso DR improvements so the 36MP might potentially be almost 2 stops better DR at ISO 100.

Digital Click wrote:

Hi All

I had been using Canon digital for years but changed to Nikon system because MY requirements for photography were mainly for low light/no flash and needed good iso and also fast and better AF - I have problem with my eyes and really rely on camera. The 5d2 did not offer the benefits of Nikon D700 except high res and video.

However with this new 5d3 claiming better AF and initial report of 2 stops better iso capability this is the ideal camera. 22 MP is more than enough and for many means existing storage facilities/workflow etc will remain the same but you will overall get a much better camera - apart from some niggles, the 5d2 is still top rate SLR.

With the Nikon D800, a fine camera I am sure, but at 36MP people just keep talking about that iso is as good as D700 when downsampled. I much rather have a 22mp than gives me better iso than having to downsample to lower MP!

Whatever digital workflow we use, digital image post-production takes time - my MacPro system will handle the RAw 12MP files I am using... not sure about 36 though. I always keep the original RAW images after conversion to jpg but don't like the idea of having to cater for x3 more storage and having to possibly spend more money on faster processor - Macs are not cheap!

I think you Canon guys have it good with the new 5d - certainly if this camera was available 2 years ago I would not have changed - just loved my Canon 70-200 F4is lens and Nikon have no equivalent which is a shame.

If Nikon had a 22mp D800, with even the same iso performance of the D700 without downsampling to get it, I would have been in line for one.

Wonder how many potential buyers of Canon 1dx might now opt for 5d3.

TK

Ramjager Forum Member • Posts: 88
Re: don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

What about the disintegration of D800 images due to diffraction???

Take a shot with a Mk2 at F18 or F14 and see how you go then compare it to an eventual 36MP image.
Ill take the 21MP image anyday.

Seems a LOT of people in clammering over the D800 seem to have forgotten all about the huge degradation in IQ at big MP's when stepped down.

Two shots even when resampled down will not be as sharp as the non effected image.

Think Canon have got it right with the 22MP...if Nikon believed in 36 the D4 would be way higher than is spec.
36=Gimmick..

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Just a Photographer Senior Member • Posts: 1,368
Re: you let me laugh - 5D3 is just an AF upgrade

Its good to talk yourself into believing that the 22MP is fine and better...

But the samples that we have been seeing from Canon as from the 1D X are very disappointing. The 2 stop better ISO is only for JPEG compression mode and not for RAW.

Although I am sure both camera's will be good, I would have liked the 5D3 to be closer to the D800 then it is now.

I think its pathetic that Canon wants us to pay 3500 dollars just for an AF upgrade.

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aman74 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,002
Re: don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

You don't understand diffraction. You are never worse off with a higher MP sensor due to diffraction.

The OP doesn't understand downsampling either.

Such a shame this stuff persists.

pekr
pekr Regular Member • Posts: 482
OK, wait for the 6D

Kind of disappointed, especially about the price, and also about the misconfiguration of the system. What I want is:

  • FF

  • 5D3 AF and metering

  • Pop-up flash

  • swivel LCD for someones sake - this is a video camera too!

  • proximity sensor from Rebel line

  • don't add any other rudiculous buttons anymore - Print (noone uses) and Rate are really enough

  • not crippled high ISO - they crippled it only to not hurt 1Dx, otherwise there would be no 1 stop difference

  • 2500 $ at max

Then I might move to the FF. 3500 $ for the body - just insane ...

DaddyG Regular Member • Posts: 260
Re: don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

aman74 wrote:

You don't understand diffraction. You are never worse off with a higher MP sensor due to diffraction.

The OP doesn't understand downsampling either.

Such a shame this stuff persists.

The OP makes a great point re workflow and dealing with enormous files.

With minimal increase and 3 1/2 years sensor development, I'd say that there will be a noticable increase in high ISO performance. And not just JPEG.

Minimal MP increase is definitely welcome, let's hope for same strategy with APS-C

spidercrown Regular Member • Posts: 135
Re: don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

If the sensor technology is the same, then yes, lower mp will give better IQ. However, both sony and canon is using different technology, and who's ahead i do not want to comment. 36 is gimmick or not, i'm not sure, but the sample blew everyone away with it's finest detail and sharpness especially taking portrait. On the other hand, canon published detailess portrait sample for 5d3 (it's at iso100 mind you), ofcos i hope it's a mistake as 5d3 could be a very good all rounder option for everyone based on the spec.

As for D4, similar to 1dX, they opt for lower mp. There's a reason, they are not able to handle 36mp or 22mp at 10fps or 12fps. And the speed cannot be compromise as it is used mainly for fast shooter. Don't tell me 1fps is enough for you, cos that's just you.

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dominikov Senior Member • Posts: 1,099
Re: Canon have got it right with 5d3... from ex-Canon user

Digital Click wrote:

If Nikon had a 22mp D800, with even the same iso performance of the D700 without downsampling to get it, I would have been in line for one.

Shoot in 1.2x crop with a D800 and you'll have 25mp files with only a slight margin around the viewfinder masked out and you get 5fps and a larger buffer than the D700.

Of course you're losing a few mm off the wide end (17-35 = 20-42mm, 24-70 = approx. 28-85mm, etc.) but when it becomes an issue just switch back to FF mode.

Not a deal breaker in my opinion.

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Digital Click OP Regular Member • Posts: 323
Re: don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

I am always wary of pics posted by manufacturers - I will wait to see a number of reviews and users pictures to see how good all these new cameras really are. I am sure they are all good but how good and their faults will be revealed by such reports soon.

Re 1fps - for many this will always be enough! I understand your point re high MP and faster fps - I often need such fast speed for events and use a D3s but for general commisions the D700 suits me fine though I wish it had a bit more resolution like 5d2 or 5d3 at same iso levels.

I am neither a Nikon of Canon fanatic – I use what suits my needs. I love the Canon S90 and considering a GX1- nothing in the Nikon range suits my needs non DSLR wise and Sony NEX recently dismissed.

Anyway, back to 5d3.. I do think though the price is too high. In the UK, you could almost buy two 5d2 for the price of the 5d3!! The price will reduce after a few months but for all cameras, fromt he point of their official launch and actual availability seems so very long. Cannot remember but has it always been like this?

TK

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Digital Click OP Regular Member • Posts: 323
Re: Canon have got it right with 5d3... from ex-Canon user

Hi dominikov

Thank you for this - I am not a teccy person but this is interesting - also like the idea of 1.2x crop. I will now wait to see reviews and if I like, I will then check if I can afford to change!!

Makes a change that something says something very useful to educate and inform rather than an insult at someone's lack of knowledge

TK

dominikov wrote:

Digital Click wrote:

If Nikon had a 22mp D800, with even the same iso performance of the D700 without downsampling to get it, I would have been in line for one.

Shoot in 1.2x crop with a D800 and you'll have 25mp files with only a slight margin around the viewfinder masked out and you get 5fps and a larger buffer than the D700.

Of course you're losing a few mm off the wide end (17-35 = 20-42mm, 24-70 = approx. 28-85mm, etc.) but when it becomes an issue just switch back to FF mode.

Not a deal breaker in my opinion.

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ukat123 Contributing Member • Posts: 761
Re: Canon have got it right with 5d3... from ex-Canon user

I much rather have a 22mp than gives me better iso than having to downsample to lower MP!

Well mate. I don't want to disappoint you but have a look at the samples. You need to seriously downsize the 22mp pictures to have acceptable ISO. A D3S it is not!

rhlpetrus Forum Pro • Posts: 24,490
could be worse

bronxbombers wrote:

do not believe the 2 stops better, that is just because of JPG NR making watercolors out of the images

and they mention no low iso DR improvements so the 36MP might potentially be almost 2 stops better DR at ISO 100.

Estimates put base ISO DR for D800 above 15EV (normalized).

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hjulenissen Senior Member • Posts: 1,911
Nonsense... (nt)

Ramjager wrote:

What about the disintegration of D800 images due to diffraction???

Take a shot with a Mk2 at F18 or F14 and see how you go then compare it to an eventual 36MP image.
Ill take the 21MP image anyday.

Digital Click OP Regular Member • Posts: 323
Re: Canon have got it right with 5d3... from ex-Canon user

Thanks Ukat, I will try that. beginning to think that the only camera better than d3s for low light iso is possibly the D4. Still over time, users photos of real-life situations will reveal capabilities of all all cameras.

TK

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aman74 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,002
Re: don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

You quoted me yet wrote nothing that has anything to do with what I said...

mermaidkiller Regular Member • Posts: 443
Re: don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

Most important what I am missing is EF-S compatibility. Nikon FF cameras are DX (crop sensor) compatible.
If the 5d3 were EF-S compatible it could still shoot (22 / 1.62^2 8.6 MP.

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Digital Click OP Regular Member • Posts: 323
Re: don't believe the 2 stops hype and it might even have worse DR than D800

I think it is pretty obvious what daddyg meant - you have no idea how to answer tactfully but feel it ok to be offensive - some sort of superiority complex on knowledge I think going on here - if I don;t understand anything, I rather be told and learn rather than be told I don;t know what i am talking about- just plain simple courtesy.

i and many others find it hard to grasp certain things (personally have a slight learning difficulty) - really admire people who help others in these posts and have sent out private emails to 'clever' people int he past to explain certain things in an easy manner was was so grateful for their replies.

If you did not mean to be offensive, then sorry but maybe be more tactful in future - others may not fully understand what you do.

TK

aman74 wrote:

You quoted me yet wrote nothing that has anything to do with what I said...

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