Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Started Feb 27, 2012 | Discussions
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Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Many reasons..ultimately fairly frustrating ones at the best of times. Whilst the F70 plugs along just fine, it's quite difficult to find a Fuji camera I would like to actually buy right now..

Yes it is great to see "Fuji find their Mojo" as the Luminous Landscape put it. But what's the point if they don't know how to "use it"

X-10: Great idea but seems to fall a bit short of expectations and "orb issues" dampen that appeal down to a "no thanks" buying choice. The dream compact Fuji users wanted for a long time and they dropped the ball in style. And we waited oh so long as well.

X-S1: Lots of users (and Pannie ones) were looking for a "better high end" bridge type camera, certainly demand was there. Again ruined with "orb problems" tainted with "saggy lens issues" and now a laggotastic EVF mixed in.

Fujifilm X-Pro1: Too early to say on this one, it's pricey and a new ILC type mount might be a gamble. Focus by wire is something rather sad to see on such a camera. Leaving that aside it might be good, but will we be shocked if they "goof" something else up on that. It might be priced too far for the market as well. Or simply a niche product that does not take the mount to more affordable levels.

F5/6/7xx series models: Aside from the overly stuffed 16mp sensors that look pretty lousy at full resolution (fine we'll drop it down to 8mp then) you've a fairly slim chance of actually finding one that doesn't have a badly de-centred lens. In fact I've yet to see any samples with a lens that was actually good bar in the middle smeared out corners in some cases extending well into the frame. Not really acceptable for a "better" compact camera. Nice they put raw in most..but IMO the range is too big and they can't make a decent lens for it...what's the point then?

X100: Good idea and some like it, but the execution looked rushed with too many quirks that should have been ironed out before it hit the shelves.

The "too many models minor variations" problem as well lots of them out there but how many would you actually want to buy?

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/

The well used phrase "never mind the quality feel the width" springs to mind there.

Customer service: Need I say more let's ask Paul about his repairs On a more serious note the above issues damage the company and their reputation. Fuji need to "sort them out" they won't simply go away.

On the "they got is back pat" part. Yes Fuji have worked out that putting an OVF into some of their models is a good idea. Now can we have some models that are worth buying please?

Fuji need to sort their act out and fast. If they don't have the people in place who have the skills, vision and ability to do that..then hire some that do. This charade cannot be allowed to continue. Fuji must sort the problems out..get them fixed and re-build some kind of reputation. Just shoving out clearly flawed products in the vain hope that they'll sell enough to not care about returns isn't going to work.

Fuji's heart is in the right place, but to have some many obvious problems is beyond any kind of joke. And..for crying out loud, hire some real "field/beta" testers who know what they are doing, and can see problems "BEFORE" you start rolling products off the production line.

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evogt500 Contributing Member • Posts: 506
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

99% of their problem is due to lack of Quality Control and field testing.

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jakesan Regular Member • Posts: 148
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

I have to disagree.

These are design engineering problems, they are fundamental. They were all well know to the designers and engineers early in the process. They would have been obvious with the first few prototypes, long before (production) QC was involved.

It is not possible, speaking as a design engineer myself, that problems like these are suprises discovered in the field or by QC.

In other words, they signed off on them, compromises and all, betting that we would buy them "as is".

IMO

Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

. . .

Fuji need to sort their act out and fast. If they don't have the people in place who have the skills, vision and ability to do that..then hire some that do. This charade cannot be allowed to continue. Fuji must sort the problems out..get them fixed and re-build some kind of reputation. Just shoving out clearly flawed products in the vain hope that they'll sell enough to not care about returns isn't going to work.

Fuji's heart is in the right place, but to have some many obvious problems is beyond any kind of joke. And..for crying out loud, hire some real "field/beta" testers who know what they are doing, and can see problems "BEFORE" you start rolling products off the production line.

I'll bet that Fuji not only had field/beta testers, those testers also discovered and reported finding orbs in photos. It's more likely that upper management decided that sticking with the flawed sensors wouldn't present a significant risk. They've been in a "maximize profits at all costs" mode for the last year or two, probably chose to gamble and lost.

Sunshine_boy
Sunshine_boy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,823
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

Losing confidence in Fuji
Many reasons..ultimately fairly frustrating ones at the best of times.

I share your sentiment and thoughts Barry,
but I would have said " I lost confidence in Fuji" not "I am losing it.."

I am just hoping (and wish them luck in doing so) that they'll eventually manage to produce some models that are worthy of some of their past compacts, bridges and dslrs that attracted me (and so many others) to the Fuji name. It is actually tragic to see them becoming a laughing stock, going down in quality and reputation without even realizing it themselves (I don't think). I believe however that they'll eventually make a comeback after they are made to feel the heat of their recent failures.
--
Best Regards
Sunshine

ps If you see someone without a smile on, give him one of yours...

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GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,344
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Fuji's street service outlets in Hong Kong are part of a cheap photo-processing chain of the type that gives you budget prints in an hour. That's where I had to go to replace a lost X10 lens caps.

It somehow fits the overall image at this point, at least in terms of what they think user expectations of the X10 should be.

I know SOME good photographers use Fuji. But it's kind of hard for me to take Fuji seriously right now.

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Silent Oracle
Silent Oracle Senior Member • Posts: 2,913
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Barry, I agree with you. There is nothing that is inspiring me to purchase a Fuji anything these days.
--
Jada

http://silentoracle.weebly.com/blog.html

Barry Fitzgerald OP Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Billx08 wrote:

I'll bet that Fuji not only had field/beta testers, those testers also discovered and reported finding orbs in photos. It's more likely that upper management decided that sticking with the flawed sensors wouldn't present a significant risk. They've been in a "maximize profits at all costs" mode for the last year or two, probably chose to gamble and lost.

Maybe you are right but it would be a bit of a gamble to knowingly sell a defective product. Surely the returns will be significant..not to mention the "cost" of leaving users hung out to dry.

Portuense New Member • Posts: 11
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

Billx08 wrote:

I'll bet that Fuji not only had field/beta testers, those testers also discovered and reported finding orbs in photos. It's more likely that upper management decided that sticking with the flawed sensors wouldn't present a significant risk. They've been in a "maximize profits at all costs" mode for the last year or two, probably chose to gamble and lost.

Maybe you are right but it would be a bit of a gamble to knowingly sell a defective product. Surely the returns will be significant..not to mention the "cost" of leaving users hung out to dry.

That is called fraud.

Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

Billx08 wrote:

I'll bet that Fuji not only had field/beta testers, those testers also discovered and reported finding orbs in photos. It's more likely that upper management decided that sticking with the flawed sensors wouldn't present a significant risk. They've been in a "maximize profits at all costs" mode for the last year or two, probably chose to gamble and lost.

Maybe you are right but it would be a bit of a gamble to knowingly sell a defective product. Surely the returns will be significant..not to mention the "cost" of leaving users hung out to dry.

Not much of a gamble the way you're seeing it, because I'm assuming that they didn't consider the orbing sensors to be defective, and the gamble was that for customers, orbs would be an insignificant problem, swamped by the X10's other appealing attributes. If we can have orb deniers in the forum, Fuji could have had orb deniers in their executive suites.

jimbo68 Senior Member • Posts: 1,274
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

The problem that Fuji is going to have is that dealers will be very reluctant to stock their products. Returns have to be taking their toll on the dealers margins.

GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,344
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

jimbo68 wrote:

The problem that Fuji is going to have is that dealers will be very reluctant to stock their products. Returns have to be taking their toll on the dealers margins.

Margins AND goodwill.

The kind of ill-will this situation creates muddies everyone who can be considered to be responsible for it.

Two dealers I know are deliberately warning their customers about this now, in the hope of not getting returns. What makes it harder for them is that many tourists like to buy cameras in Hong Kong. And who wants to get back home and discover you've got orbs and no chance for return and no warranty?

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Barry Fitzgerald OP Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Looking after the customer..

GaryJP wrote:

jimbo68 wrote:

The problem that Fuji is going to have is that dealers will be very reluctant to stock their products. Returns have to be taking their toll on the dealers margins.

Margins AND goodwill.

The kind of ill-will this situation creates muddies everyone who can be considered to be responsible for it.

Two dealers I know are deliberately warning their customers about this now, in the hope of not getting returns. What makes it harder for them is that many tourists like to buy cameras in Hong Kong. And who wants to get back home and discover you've got orbs and no chance for return and no warranty?

-- hide signature --

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

Comes first anything else is simply throwing away long term business.

I've seen Pentax do something similar (knowingly selling a dodgy product) and it was painful to see, but it would hate to see Fuji go down the same narrow minded customer walk away path.

If you have a problem you fix it..

This is a PR disaster of epic proportions for Fuji it's about time they found a solution.

painterdude
painterdude Senior Member • Posts: 2,857
Barry Fitzgerald

Kind of sad to see this all happening..I do believe one of those who commented here got it right ..The problems in Fuji's cameras are well known by the designers, technicians, and testers before release, but upper management simply pushed them to market, somehow thinking the problem would not be a big issue???

Must make the designers and others invloved in the creation of their cameras want to hide in shame. I would be like me having a gallery tell me that I must exhibit a painting by X date and if it is not quite finished or up to snuff ..so be it, its going out there anyways..
g

http://skylightvistas.weebly.com/index.html

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Luego
Luego Senior Member • Posts: 1,178
Re: Looking after the customer..

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

jimbo68 wrote:

The problem that Fuji is going to have is that dealers will be very reluctant to stock their products. Returns have to be taking their toll on the dealers margins.

Margins AND goodwill.

The kind of ill-will this situation creates muddies everyone who can be considered to be responsible for it.

Two dealers I know are deliberately warning their customers about this now, in the hope of not getting returns. What makes it harder for them is that many tourists like to buy cameras in Hong Kong. And who wants to get back home and discover you've got orbs and no chance for return and no warranty?

-- hide signature --

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

Comes first anything else is simply throwing away long term business.

I've seen Pentax do something similar (knowingly selling a dodgy product) and it was painful to see, but it would hate to see Fuji go down the same narrow minded customer walk away path.

If you have a problem you fix it..

This is a PR disaster of epic proportions for Fuji it's about time they found a solution.

I never had a problems with my Pentax for 43 years. Do you think Fuji's X100LE will last that long without repair?

Happy images

Luego

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snake_b Veteran Member • Posts: 4,680
Re: Looking after the customer..

OP forgot to include the failing aperture blades on the X100 and how Fuji just threw parts at the problem, which also happened to be defective.

Need a repair out of warranty? I saw some ridiculous pricing for it.

Barry Fitzgerald OP Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Quite common really

painterdude wrote:

Kind of sad to see this all happening..I do believe one of those who commented here got it right ..The problems in Fuji's cameras are well known by the designers, technicians, and testers before release, but upper management simply pushed them to market, somehow thinking the problem would not be a big issue???

Must make the designers and others invloved in the creation of their cameras want to hide in shame. I would be like me having a gallery tell me that I must exhibit a painting by X date and if it is not quite finished or up to snuff ..so be it, its going out there anyways..
g

I happens with many products esp software is infamous for it. Shove it out there patch it up later on. With cameras some makers rush to market and have not ironed out problems. The latest Fuji's are obvious examples. Problem here is I don't think Fuji can patch it!

Barry Fitzgerald OP Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: Looking after the customer..

Luego wrote:

I never had a problems with my Pentax for 43 years. Do you think Fuji's X100LE will last that long without repair?

The spotmatic was a classic from Pentax. Try buying a Pentax DSLR esp the K-r and you will notice problems. K-x had mirror slap issues too (which interfered with the SR system)

Pentax "used to make" really good cameras. That was some time ago

NikonScavenger Regular Member • Posts: 173
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

I still have my S5 Pro, made in the last hurrah days of the company. The camera can be at best described as quirky (to some level Sigma quirky) but never did those idiosyncracies actually get in the way of image quality--maybe part of it was that Fuji let Nikon do all the heavy lifting with the F-mount and the Super CCD was actually a real good photosensor, despite it being really a 6mp.

The quirks include:

-really slow start-up time (compared to near instant on for its D200 platform mate)
-incompatibility with Nikon batteries
-live view that isn't (to be fair no cameras had good live view at that time)
-real long image processing time (once again compared to near instant for D200)
-GIANT RAW files
-weird menus and switch placement despite being based off a Nikon body and OS

All of this could be lived with for a camera that produced awesome skin tones and excellent dynamic range that no CMOS sensor can reproduce without extensive post-processing. And the camera actually worked and was well put together. The current issues with Fuji's crap build quality and defective photosensors are indicative of a company that has tried to reinvent itself, but didn't put enough work into creating a new product line.

And they had better put up one hell of a goodwill gesture to buyers and dealers or join their old film rival Kodak in the grave.

NOLA JAMES Regular Member • Posts: 105
Re: Losing confidence in Fujifilm

Barry I could not agree more. A company that has knowledge of a defective product should immediately pull this product from the market. They should make a statement regarding this product defect and insure their customers that they are working to resolve this problem. In the event the problem is not resolved then the cameras should be recalled and refunds/rebates for another fuji camera issued. Saying nothing becomes a PR debacle.

I owned a manufacturing business for many years and I did have one product that we discovered a design flaw after distribution. Solution...We immediately acknowledged the problem and replaced all the defective units free of cost including shipping. After this my business grew rapidly as my our reputation of integrity spread quickly througout our industry.

We need companies like Fujifilm to survive and design innovative products. I personally have an Xpro 1 on order and I'm looking forward to producing quality images. Naturally I am concerned with quality issues and would feel much better if the Fujiguys would step forward and at least acknowledge they have a problem. Saving face is one thing.....but not at the cost of your reputation.

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