Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

Started Feb 27, 2012 | Discussions
Makkara Forum Member • Posts: 96
Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

They did what !?!

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/27/2827158/nokia-808-pureview-launch-pictures-video-preview

"The headline spec is that the brand new camera sensor inside it is composed of 41 million pixels, however as you might have surmised, this handset doesn't take full 41-megapixel stills. Instead, it oversamples — taking the image data from seven neighboring pixels and consolidating it into one pixel's worth — and generates pictures roughly 5 megapixels in size. That's still plenty of dots for most uses, and the image quality you can obtain from such a system is frankly ridiculous. Nokia showed me poster-sized samples captured with the 808 PureView (printed entirely unprocessed) that basically had zero noise in them."

Henrik Herranen Senior Member • Posts: 1,732
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

Makkara wrote:

They did what !?!

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/27/2827158/nokia-808-pureview-launch-pictures-video-preview

During the years I've participated at DPreview, I've seen endless speculation of what would happen if someone built a sensor with a pixel count ridicluously beyond diffraction limits, then created the final images by downsampling. No need for antialias filters, no Bayer interpolation artifacts, etc. I'd never had guessed that it would be Nokia who'd give us the answer.

The sensor of the beast is huge for a phone sensor: 1/1.2", or approx. 13.0x9.0 mm (aspect ratio 1.45). That's double the area 1/1.7" sensors like e.g. Canon S100 or G12. Also the lens is okayish fast at f/2.4.

http://europe.nokia.com/PRODUCT_METADATA_0/Products/Phones/8000-series/808/Nokia808PureView_Whitepaper.pdf

The jury is of course still out there, but I'm already impressed by this bold move. In this form factor I am almost ready to believe that this is a really clever solution.

Kind regards,

  • Henrik

PS. Although I am generally against off-tangent news, I believe this piece of news should make DPReview headline news. I also believe that this camera should be tested on this site. It is, after all, never-before-seen, perhaps even revolutional camera technology.

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Jon Rty Veteran Member • Posts: 3,838
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

And with a 1/1.2" sensor. The successor of the N8 is here.

Spencer Goh New Member • Posts: 1
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

Here's the whitepaper:

http://europe.nokia.com/PRODUCT_METADATA_0/Products/Phones/8000-series/808/Nokia808PureView_Whitepaper.pdf

I think for once DPR should look at a full review of this camera. Given the huge fuss they made over the iPhone 4/4S launch in respect of the camera, they should at least post a news item about this. It's heralds a massive shift in phone photography and is newsworthy imo.

OP Makkara Forum Member • Posts: 96
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor
OP Makkara Forum Member • Posts: 96
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor
rgarijo Junior Member • Posts: 43
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

This is revolutionary. Nokia has just killed the compact camera market.

Anada Senior Member • Posts: 1,500
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

Well, for several years already Nokia has been by far the biggest camera manufacturer in the world. Much bigger than Canon or Nikon or.....

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Jon Rty Veteran Member • Posts: 3,838
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

They are official Nokia samples.

EDIT: Jeesus those are unbelievably good.

Makkara wrote:

And more:
http://c-album.com/kuvat/n808/n80812mp-.jpg/full
http://c-album.com/kuvat/n808/n8086mp-.jpg/full

http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Archive2.zip

Gotta get this phone if those are real.

rvalle Regular Member • Posts: 189
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

This is absolutely fantastic!

I have been waiting for YEARS for a camera-phone that could replace a compact. This can become the 2nd ever phone to achieve that, after the N8, but what a leap in image quality!
The sensor is much larger than the Lumix LX-5, Canon S100, or even the Fuji X10!
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snake_b Veteran Member • Posts: 4,680
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

...and thensome. It will certainly take a bite out of Prosumer cameras, which are in a tough position of being very good, but in a highly threatened position.

Jon Rty wrote:

And with a 1/1.2" sensor. The successor of the N8 is here.

snake_b Veteran Member • Posts: 4,680
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

So how do we sign up to try one?

Anada Senior Member • Posts: 1,500
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

Very well,

The fact seems to be if you're into photography, you have to have a N-class camera, sure NOT any C-class. (LOL)

ps. a happy D300 and N8 owner

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rvalle Regular Member • Posts: 189
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

The sensor in the Nikon J1/V1 is only 1,5 times the size of this Nokia 808.
That tells you something right there.

From my math, it is about 2 stops smaller than a DX sensor, so without zoom the 808 is about equivalent to a 18mm f/5.6 lens in Nikon DX, in terms of DOF and field of view, but with the luminosity of the f/2.4 lens.

If you fully zoom in (1:1 pixels, no binning), then it is about equivalent in Nikon DX to 50mm f/5.6, with the luminosity of the f/2.4 lens. That's better than my 18-55 kit lens!

Of course, at 1:1 pixel zoom the quality can't be the same as with pixel binning, but still...

rvalle

rvalle wrote:

This is absolutely fantastic!

I have been waiting for YEARS for a camera-phone that could replace a compact. This can become the 2nd ever phone to achieve that, after the N8, but what a leap in image quality!
The sensor is much larger than the Lumix LX-5, Canon S100, or even the Fuji X10!
--
Portfolio: http://rvalle.zenfolio.com/
Blog: http://tripodkicks.blogspot.com/

Henrik Herranen Senior Member • Posts: 1,732
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

rvalle wrote:

The sensor in the Nikon J1/V1 is only 1,5 times the size of this Nokia 808.
That tells you something right there.

Exactly!

I provided a calculation earlier in this thread of what the sensor size of the 808 would be, but apparently it was incorrect. The right number seems to be in the ballpark of 10.7 x 7.5 mm (Nikon 1 system is 13.2 x 8.8 mm).

From my math, it is about 2 stops smaller than a DX sensor, so without zoom the 808 is about equivalent to a 18mm f/5.6 lens in Nikon DX, in terms of DOF and field of view, but with the luminosity of the f/2.4 lens.

Exactly 2 stops smaller would make it the equivalent to a DX / crop 1.5 lens of 16 mm f/4.8 (8 mm x 2 = 16 mm, 2.4 x 2 = 4.8).

If you fully zoom in (1:1 pixels, no binning), then it is about equivalent in Nikon DX to 50mm f/5.6, with the luminosity of the f/2.4 lens. That's better than my 18-55 kit lens!

This is, however, incorrect. At 5 MPix 4:3 mode you get about 2.3x zoom, or in other words, an additional crop factor of 2.3 (7152 / 3072 = 2.3). As always with cropping, you have to multiply both focal length and aperture for equivalence. Thus, you'd get the equivalent blurring capabilities of 16mm*2.3 f/(4.8*2.3) = 37mm f/11 on a DX/crop 1.5 lens.

(The reason for this is that when you crop, the physical aperture doesn't change: it stays at 8 mm / 2.4 = 3.3 mm. Everything else follows from that.)

-

Not to take anything away from the new module. This new 808 camera module is stunning, even revolutionary. If it as good as it seems from the 38 Mpix example pics (which of course have been taken in perfect light), I might end up selling my PowerShot S90 and doing the unthinkable: buying my first mobile phone (all my earlier phones have been free prototypes or equally free leftovers).

Kind regards,

  • Henrik

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rvalle Regular Member • Posts: 189
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

Your're right.
I forgot to multiply the aperture because it is a crop.

rvfalle

Henrik Herranen wrote:

This is, however, incorrect. At 5 MPix 4:3 mode you get about 2.3x zoom, or in other words, an additional crop factor of 2.3 (7152 / 3072 = 2.3). As always with cropping, you have to multiply both focal length and aperture for equivalence. Thus, you'd get the equivalent blurring capabilities of 16mm*2.3 f/(4.8*2.3) = 37mm f/11 on a DX/crop 1.5 lens.

(The reason for this is that when you crop, the physical aperture doesn't change: it stays at 8 mm / 2.4 = 3.3 mm. Everything else follows from that.)

Kind regards,

  • Henrik

Gadgety New Member • Posts: 1
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

I totally agree this needs to be headline news at dpreview because this product changes the competitive landscape. It would be interesting to get a review of the 808 and see how it stacks up against dedicated pos cameras.

Henrik Herranen wrote:

PS. Although I am generally against off-tangent news, I believe this piece of news should make DPReview headline news. I also believe that this camera should be tested on this site. It is, after all, never-before-seen, perhaps even revolutional camera technology.

nRequimM Regular Member • Posts: 135
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

The full 38mp shots are stunning even at pixel level.

Hello my next phone/camera!

Menneisyys Senior Member • Posts: 1,458
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

Mine too! I'm writing this from MWC (reporting from here). Handled the 808 (albeit I was not allowed to shot resolution charts or even send over the shots via BT to my handsets). The 808 seems to be a BEAST.

Will post my half-hour-long, very interesting interview with a Nokia Imaging guy this evening - just preparing my report of the camera.

nRequimM wrote:

The full 38mp shots are stunning even at pixel level.

Hello my next phone/camera!

rvalle Regular Member • Posts: 189
Re: Nokia 808 Pureview - 41mp downsampling sensor

Cool!
Will you post the link here in this thread?

rvalle

Menneisyys wrote:

Mine too! I'm writing this from MWC (reporting from here). Handled the 808 (albeit I was not allowed to shot resolution charts or even send over the shots via BT to my handsets). The 808 seems to be a BEAST.

Will post my half-hour-long, very interesting interview with a Nokia Imaging guy this evening - just preparing my report of the camera.

nRequimM wrote:

The full 38mp shots are stunning even at pixel level.

Hello my next phone/camera!

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