Nex-7 a bridge too far....

Started Feb 27, 2012 | Discussions
uhoh07 Senior Member • Posts: 1,580
Nex-7 a bridge too far....

I had one ordered twice! TY god they were delayed. First time i just got a 5n. Second delay i just got cold feet

now we start to see thaere are issues with a wide variety of lenses:

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1904-sony-nex-7/

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1992-sony-nex-7-2nd-sample-results/

Not a single online review I know of caught this issue, including our esteemed hosts.

see also
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/sony/34781-nex-7-problem-cz85.html

and hints here too i think:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1086422/0?keyword=la-ea2#10351506

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nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 17,149
Must take people a long time to click on huh

uhoh07 wrote:

I had one ordered twice! TY god they were delayed. First time i just got a 5n. Second delay i just got cold feet

now we start to see thaere are issues with a wide variety of lenses:

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1904-sony-nex-7/

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1992-sony-nex-7-2nd-sample-results/

Not a single online review I know of caught this issue, including our esteemed hosts.

see also
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/sony/34781-nex-7-problem-cz85.html

and hints here too i think:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1086422/0?keyword=la-ea2#10351506

Thats actually fairly old news and was reported by an online review with extreme wides. Where ya been

I only shoot over 300mm, so not an issue. Extreme wide angles. The question is, would you know it if you took a shot and printed it.

All the best.

Danny.
...........................
m4/3 macro
http://www.macrophotos.com/g2macro

m4/3 feathered flying gadgets
http://www.macrophotos.com/avian/avian.html

Worry about the image that comes out of the box, rather than the box itself.

OP uhoh07 Senior Member • Posts: 1,580
Re: Must take people a long time to click on huh

nzmacro wrote:

uhoh07 wrote:

I had one ordered twice! TY god they were delayed. First time i just got a 5n. Second delay i just got cold feet

now we start to see thaere are issues with a wide variety of lenses:

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1904-sony-nex-7/

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1992-sony-nex-7-2nd-sample-results/

Not a single online review I know of caught this issue, including our esteemed hosts.

see also
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/sony/34781-nex-7-problem-cz85.html

and hints here too i think:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1086422/0?keyword=la-ea2#10351506

Thats actually fairly old news and was reported by an online review with extreme wides. Where ya been

I only shoot over 300mm, so not an issue. Extreme wide angles.

No danny boy, where are you...right now? Oz? Did you read the links?

No we are not talking about WAs. Unless 85mm is wide for you.

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blue_skies
blue_skies Forum Pro • Posts: 11,945
Re: Nex-7 a bridge too far....

I am not sure what the underlying issue here is. But I can see these finding having an impact.

I see just another report that tells us that a 24Mp sensor does not have the same ISO sensitivity as a 16Mp sensor - of the same generation.

I agree with you that all the past talk about downsampling, showing that both 7 and 5N essentially have the same ISO performance, is somewhat pulled into question: These reports suggest that the 7 looses real IQ under lowlight - also with non-wide RF lenses (yes, fast tele A mount lenses)!! This is new data, it limits the use of the 7.

We know that the 5N has a better sensitivity, and this resulted in a sharpening of particularly wide angle RF lenses. The 7 is expected to behave more like a 5 did, due to its lower (per pixel) sensitivity. On the 5 we see the same vignetting, magenta show and corner smear that early pictures of the 7 showed us as well.

In spite of all the talks about micro-mirrors, AA filters, top layer thickness, I think it comes down to the actual pixel sensitivity.

The 5N spoils us, with WA RF lenses, and a 7, even downsampled, cannot match it. This is another report emphasizing that there is a real difference.

Or, to say this differently. The previous generation sensors' lowlight performance topped out around 10-12Mp, and current generation sensors seem to hover around 16-18Mp.

This puts both the 5 and 7 as being too aggressive, with edge sensitivity fall-off as a result. I am sure that there are formulas for this (per pixel). In-camera software can correct the LoCA, vignetting, lens profile distortion, but not the smearing effect that we see as well, resulting in loss of IQ if there is insufficient light on the sensor.

I have a feeling that the 5N will be more sought after than the 7 in the near future, as it definitely accepts more HQ glass and has better lowlight/high ISO performance.

Still, the 7 has other usages where this does not matter. I guess the 7 is NOT a high ISO camera with certain lenses

Now, when is that Nex-6N going to be announced?

uhoh07 wrote:

I had one ordered twice! TY god they were delayed. First time i just got a 5n. Second delay i just got cold feet

now we start to see thaere are issues with a wide variety of lenses:

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1904-sony-nex-7/

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1992-sony-nex-7-2nd-sample-results/

Not a single online review I know of caught this issue, including our esteemed hosts.

see also
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/sony/34781-nex-7-problem-cz85.html

and hints here too i think:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1086422/0?keyword=la-ea2#10351506

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

There are two kinds of photographers: those that are interested in what a camera can't do, and those that are interested in what it can do.

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nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 17,149
Re: Must take people a long time to click on huh

What would I be doing in Aussie :).

Steve Huff reported this issue with WA only ages ago. Yes I've had a look and a read and trust me, anything under 300mm is WA for me

Danny.
...........................
m4/3 macro
http://www.macrophotos.com/g2macro

m4/3 feathered flying gadgets
http://www.macrophotos.com/avian/avian.html

Worry about the image that comes out of the box, rather than the box itself.

OP uhoh07 Senior Member • Posts: 1,580
Re: Must take people a long time to click on huh

nzmacro wrote:

What would I be doing in Aussie :).

Steve Huff reported this issue with WA only ages ago. Yes I've had a look and a read and trust me, anything under 300mm is WA for me

Danny.

No Daniel. Huff mentioned and showed only colorshift on a few wide angle RF lenses. He did not even bother to shoot anything with details at the edges, so edge sharpness was not even "in the picture".

If you think you are up to date based on what you know from huff....well I have a windows 98 CD for you

Looks like you are still shooting a 2x crop.....did anyone tell you there are bigger sensors now?

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,478
Re: Nex-7 a bridge too far....

NEX 7 issues with wide lenses and rangefinder lenses have been known for a long time. And now this. Was the flood really a Godsend for Sony, perhaps giving them an excuse not to ship what they knew to be a deficient camera? Roll-out of the anticipated NEX5F after the March 18 announcement may divert sales away from the unhappy NEX 7. Conspiracy theory or just good business?

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nick_webster
nick_webster Veteran Member • Posts: 7,623
Not keeping up ?
OP uhoh07 Senior Member • Posts: 1,580
Re: Not keeping up ?

nick_webster wrote:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1042&message=40729330

Note the camera and the poster

Nick

haha TY

I suggest you compare with 5n, danny, or at least stop that big glass down to see what happens.

This is not a "wide only" issue, I'm afraid. If it can happen on an 85 it can happen on a 300.

Are your shots as sharp as they should be?

I'm happy to be wrong about the whole issue, but the sources are strong.

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ET2 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,110
Re: Not keeping up ?

uhoh07 wrote:

This is not a "wide only" issue, I'm afraid. If it can happen on an 85 it can happen on a 300.

Nex-7 has been reviewed both by DPR and and Imaging-Resource. The studio shots on DPR were taken with 50mm Sony A-mount lens. The IR studio shots were taken with A-mount Sigma 70mm F2.8.

Both reviews were positive. Nex-7 got gold award on DPR. They took hundreds of photos.

Nex-7 was extensively reviewed by Luminous landscape who thought it was one of the best camera he ever used.

Nothing "exploded" and nothing is going to "explode"

Klaus, as a lens tester, is ultra tight ass. He had issues with K-5 too.

Funny he hasn't yet posted any samples, but nothing is going to "explode"

Just get over it .. and be happy with your 5n, if that's what you want.

OP uhoh07 Senior Member • Posts: 1,580
Re: Not keeping up ?

ET2 wrote:

uhoh07 wrote:

This is not a "wide only" issue, I'm afraid. If it can happen on an 85 it can happen on a 300.

Nex-7 has been reviewed both by DPR and and Imaging-Resource. The studio shots on DPR were taken with 50mm Sony A-mount lens. The IR studio shots were taken with A-mount Sigma 70mm F2.8.

Both reviews were positive. Nex-7 got gold award on DPR. They took hundreds of photos.

Nex-7 was extensively reviewed by Luminous landscape who thought it was one of the best camera he ever used.

Nothing "exploded" and nothing is going to "explode"

Klaus, as a lens tester, is ultra tight ass. He had issues with K-5 too.

Funny he hasn't yet posted any samples, but nothing is going to "explode"

Just get over it .. and be happy with your 5n, if that's what you want.

"I'm next to giving up lens testing on the NEX 7 now.

This sensor seems to be totally unsuitable for testing lenses and, frankly, I consider it to be an epic failure"
klaus chief editor photo zone yesterday
Oh yes, he's just hallucinating

LL shots with 50 lux showed described behavior weeks ago. Bad edges till f/8

I fear many may soon "get over" the n7 v1

Your denial does help Sony in the least, as they need to be on this right now.

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jalimb Regular Member • Posts: 301
Re: Nex-7 a bridge too far....

just crop the edges out of the -7 pics;
and it would still be sharper than a 5n.

check & mate.

GodSpeaks
GodSpeaks Forum Pro • Posts: 14,236
I am so happy...

... that you have vindicated your lack of decision to buy an NEX-7... to yourself ... LOL

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Najinsky Veteran Member • Posts: 5,739
Re: Oh No!

Now my bokeh is going to be blurred!

I think it is a genuine enough issue, and something else for the weary trade-off juggler to, er, juggle (dam I hate when analogies fall off the cliff).

But Klaus is doing a job as a lens tester, and so clearly this becomes a major issue for him, as it makes the 7 unsuitable for lens testing (which is all he is saying).

Will it affect your real world shooting, only you can decide (do you have ambitions to be a lens tester, or take photos of artwork for print reproduction)?

I'm not trying to justify, or excuse, the problem, I just try to be honest with myself about what impact an issue will have on me and my shooting style. For my personal assessment, based on the samples I've seen of this issue, I would downrate NEX 7 from say an 85% to an 82% but that still keeps it well above alternatives. Corners and edge sharpness plays a very small role in my regular photography.

I think the camera is a worthy Gold award and this issue hasn't taken it off my short list.

I hope you don't mind me saying, no offence is intended, it sounds like you've struggled with choosing a NEX 7 and this issue has made your decision easier. That probably means it's the right decision for you. I just hope you don't fall into the common forum trap of becoming over-critical of a product because you rejected it. Others will accept it despite some limitations, and don't deserve to be hounded about their choice any more than you do.

-Najinsky

jcharity Regular Member • Posts: 490
Re: Nex-7 a bridge too far....

jalimb wrote:

just crop the edges out of the -7 pics;
and it would still be sharper than a 5n.

check & mate.

Not this time. The clock ran out on you.

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GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 9,562
Re: Oh No!

Najinsky wrote:

...That probably means it's the right decision for you. I just hope you don't fall into the common forum trap of becoming over-critical of a product because you rejected it. Others will accept it despite some limitations, and don't deserve to be hounded about their choice any more than you do.

Good points. All cameras have their good and bad points. I guess some are "better" in more ways, but until there is one perfect camera for everyone, we have to choose. I don't mind people pointing out negatives as long as it is not just to be negative but part of a complete picture. Harping on a negative and implying that the camera is no good because of a particular issue is sometimes not helpful and may be misleading.

Perhaps Uhoh is just trying to counter all of the postive remarks about the Nex-7 which seem to imply that it's the "best" camera of all. Regardless, I also don't think it's helpful to be over-critical for this or other reasons.

-Najinsky

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Gary W.

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OP uhoh07 Senior Member • Posts: 1,580
Re: I am so happy...

GodSpeaks wrote:

... that you have vindicated your lack of decision to buy an NEX-7... to yourself ... LOL

I'm relieved, it's true, but I was hoping for a truely great nex-7, and have supported the camera against naysayers without evidence numerous times.

We should be clear: the issue is specific and does not mean good images cannot be made with the 7. However if Klaus is correct, at the moment the 5n is the better platform.

By august there will be new versions of everything---and what I really want is a full frame. So shoot the messenger if you like, but I know some will be grateful for a heads up.

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nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 17,149
NEX-7 is a keeper, are the sharp.....

uhoh07 wrote:
Are your shots as sharp as they should be?

Yes using both m4/3 and the NEX

Put it this way, I think they are pretty sharp or else the NEX-7 would be up for sale. Its a keeper.

A couple of what I would call heavy crops from the Canon FD 500mm F/4.5L

In flight heavy crop

From the Canon FD 300mm F/2.8L checking for feather details......

If you want more, just let me know. I'm certainly happy so far.

Those are just tests to check for sharpness from the NEX-7. Are they perfect, nope, but what is.

All the best and the NEX will not be going anywhere

Danny.
--
...........................
m4/3 macro
http://www.macrophotos.com/g2macro

m4/3 feathered flying gadgets
http://www.macrophotos.com/avian/avian.html

Worry about the image that comes out of the box, rather than the box itself.

nyckenj
nyckenj Regular Member • Posts: 154
Re: NEX-7 is a keeper, are the sharp.....

That seagull shot is wonderfully framed against that gray sky. It's a lovely shot.

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OP uhoh07 Senior Member • Posts: 1,580
Re: NEX-7 is a keeper, are the sharp.....

nzmacro wrote:

Put it this way, I think they are pretty sharp or else the NEX-7 would be up for sale. Its a keeper.

A couple of what I would call heavy crops from the Canon FD 500mm F/4.5L
If you want more, just let me know. I'm certainly happy so far.

Those are just tests to check for sharpness from the NEX-7. Are they perfect, nope, but what is.

All the best and the NEX will not be going anywhere

Nice shots. What apertures? Would be nice if you start to keep track and compare a bit.

This is a wide aperture issue--not an f/8 issue.

The n7 may be great with your glass--I hope so.

If you get a chance to shoot with a 5n--that would be a comparison very helpful to many.

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