Has anyone abandoned the X10 for the G1X?

Started Feb 26, 2012 | Discussions
a l b e r t Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: X10 is the better camera

G1x is soft at f/2.8 and worse (lose contrast) if shot with close focus distance.

GaryJP wrote:

NOBODY but Albert believes this. Read almost every review out there.

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a l b e r t

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GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Re: X10 is the better camera

Ha ha ha

a l b e r t wrote:

G1x is soft at f/2.8 and worse (lose contrast) if shot with close focus distance.

GaryJP wrote:

NOBODY but Albert believes this. Read almost every review out there.

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jimr Forum Pro • Posts: 11,405
Diversion......

The fact that the X10 has the orbs has nothing to do with the Canon.

Skip that excuse as it is an irrelevant diversion from the Canon's average p&s AF in a $800 camera...You should expect better from Canon than average for that price...

IQ is very important but does not substitute for other expected performance issues at that lofty p&s price...

GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Re: Diversion......

Don't buy one then.

So far, I haven't seen anyone who has who is unhappy.

Unlike with my X10.

Your money, your choice. That's how it works.

jimr wrote:

The fact that the X10 has the orbs has nothing to do with the Canon.

Skip that excuse as it is an irrelevant diversion from the Canon's average p&s AF in a $800 camera...You should expect better from Canon than average for that price...

IQ is very important but does not substitute for other expected performance issues at that lofty p&s price...

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jimr Forum Pro • Posts: 11,405
Re: Diversion......

For $600 I'd buy it in a heartbeat....

I've seen cancelled Canon orders mentioned more than a few times because of what they have read/seen....

DC Alford Veteran Member • Posts: 4,144
Re: Albert

Albert wrote:

The G1x is supposed to have much better high ISO performance due to the sensor size, but I don't find it to be any better than the X10, especially when X10 is shot using EXR mode.

Your iso comparison shot is very surprising! If this result is repeatable then that is unacceptable from a camera with a sensor the size of the G1X.

I also found the skin tone much better on the X10. G1x's skin tone is on the 'flat' side and they tune the algorithm to pull out a lighter complexion on the skin tone. Not realistic and not what the subject looks like at the time of the shot.

This is much easier to judge because it's there for all to see.

Not only color in regards to skin tone but overall color depth & accuracy as well, also G1X DR is surprisingly bad from this size sensor from what I've seen.

Poor macro performance is also a deal breaker for me.

Me too. For an $800 all in one camera that I have to buy add on lenses, adapters & carry a tripod to even shoot simple semi macro pics is unacceptable. For $800 they should at least include the lens adapter & a 250D in with the bundle.

I think for pocketable cam, Fuji took the right approach. Use a smaller sensor, but optimize the lens with a larger aperture.

Yep I agree.

The X10 is the better camera? Also agreed. Once you add in EXR DR & Fuji color, the G1X falls "flat" in comparison literally.

Although it has not been an issue for me the only caveat to consider is the potential X10 orb-sensor bloom issue. My advice to prospective X10 buyers, that hopefully will prevent future histrionics, is to do your homework & if after that you are unsure of how this issue might affect your style of shooting don't buy an X10 without a return window.

Dan

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GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Zzzzzzz..

Just look at comparative user satisfaction

It's not brain surgery

But like I said, you get to choose for yourself
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FrancoisXavier C Regular Member • Posts: 161
Re: Pretty much

GaryJP wrote:

The IQ is much higher and the lens is hardly slow, particularly given the low noise.

Photofreak7 wrote:

... I love the larger sensor but the slower lens is hard to swallow. Just curious how many are willing to give up the faster lens (and orbs) of the X10 to get the G1X which appears to have usable results even at ISO6400 (and poss. 12800)?

Is the viewfinder more like the G12 or the X10 ?

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jimr Forum Pro • Posts: 11,405
User Satisfaction Of A Defective Sensored Camera Compared To The

Canon and that justifies the $800 average p&s AF how????

So if X is defective and owners are unhapppy then it is o.k. for Y to overcharge for average AF performance ...

GaryJP wrote:

Just look at comparative user satisfaction

It's not brain surgery

But like I said, you get to choose for yourself
--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

DC Alford Veteran Member • Posts: 4,144
Re: Photofreak

I don't have the G1X but I had one pre-ordered, looked like the all in one I'd been waiting for until I found out there was no real macro capability available on the camera.

Sure I could buy the lens adapter & add on lenses of my choice, then carry a tripod to offset the slow lens at the telephoto end where the close up lens would be most useful but why?

If I'm paying this kind of money, need to carry a tripod, have to deal with lens adapters & add on lenses...might as well bring a dslr.

Not that I'm a serous macro shooter either, but I at least want the capability to shoot a true close up if I see an opportunity, especially if I'm carrying an all in one camera.

Anyway I bought an X10 instead & it has exceeded my expectations.
In fact it has retired my F200 & EP2.

I'm actually relieved that I didn't get the G1X. Aside from the non macro capability the DR & color depth are really poor from what I've seen.

Dan.

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sznajder Regular Member • Posts: 197
Re: Samples

GaryJP wrote:
http://www.pbase.com/garyp/g1_x

Blow them up as big as you like

Personally I have had enough of the crap of the X10 which is the worst of the current compacts I own.

Your mileage may vary

Photofreak7 wrote:

You can of course shoot at a lower ISO with the X10 - that's why I mentioned the faster lens of the X10 under advantages. Those on the Canon forum even mention the slower lens of the G1X. But it's looking pretty good in nearly every other aspect.

a l b e r t wrote:
I played with G1x over the weekend. X10 is the far better camera.

I was shooting G1x at ISO 640 and it has got more shadow noise than X10 @ ISO 400.

The lens is not sharp enough to resolve all 14MP. X10's lens is able to resolve more detail and is more contrasty.

The larger sensor does not bode well at 112mm. At the tele end, it is 2-stop slower than X10's lens. So instead of shooting ISO 400, now you have to shoot at ISO 1600. And G1x at ISO 1600 is definitely more noisy than X10 at ISO 400.

Marco is poor, you can't shoot very close. You'll need another camera for marco.

X10 is lighter and more refine in everyway in actual use. The only problem is orbs in specular highlights and nite shots. Can work around it somewhat, and if it wasn't of the orbs problem, it'd have been the perfect P&S.

Photofreak7 wrote:

Looking at both it appears the G1X advantages are:

  • much higher resolution vari-angle LCD

  • larger sensor

  • better IQ and at -full- resolution - especially at high ISO

  • built-in ND filter

  • presumably better video

  • motorized zoom mechanism (may be an advantage to some)

  • no more orbs - could be a disadvantage for some

disadvantages compared to X10:

  • slower lens

  • non-manual focus ring

  • slower focus (?)

Based on pictures you attached sharpness and color are not even near X10...it looks like you just defending your camera choice...definitely not worth few hundreds more over X10 .....I know.. there is you and your camera...happy images...

OP Photofreak7 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,707
Re: Diversion......

100% agreed - for the price the G1X should be the best thng since sliced bread ... AF, IQ, etc..,

jimr wrote:

The fact that the X10 has the orbs has nothing to do with the Canon.

Skip that excuse as it is an irrelevant diversion from the Canon's average p&s AF in a $800 camera...You should expect better from Canon than average for that price...

IQ is very important but does not substitute for other expected performance issues at that lofty p&s price...

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a l b e r t Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: Someone finally got the eyes to agree

DC Alford wrote:

Your iso comparison shot is very surprising! If this result is repeatable then that is unacceptable from a camera with a sensor the size of the G1X.

Yes, I'm surprised that the G1x's high ISO performance is not up to the size of the sensor. Canon has been behind on this nowadays. Both Nikon and Sony have done better in high ISO department for APS-C size sensor.

I've done numerous other shots with same ISO 400 and compared to my X10, same result. Lots of shadow noise and colors were muted in comparison to X10.

This is much easier to judge because it's there for all to see.

Not only color in regards to skin tone but overall color depth & accuracy as well, also G1X DR is surprisingly bad from this size sensor from what I've seen.

Bingo! The color depth and accuracy of G1x leaves much to be desired.

Me too. For an $800 all in one camera that I have to buy add on lenses, adapters & carry a tripod to even shoot simple semi macro pics is unacceptable. For $800 they should at least include the lens adapter & a 250D in with the bundle.

Marco is virtually nonexistent. For $800, one may think about NEX5N instead.

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GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Re: User Satisfaction Of A Defective Sensored Camera Compared To The

It's so amusing to see you harping on about "cost" when on this forum we've had, time after time, "Why are people so obsessed with the cost of the X10?"

I'm not out to convince anyone. I rather like it when other photographers like to use a worse tool than I do.

Photofreak asked a specific question. I answered it. Now he has the information he needs to make his own decision.

jimr wrote:
Canon and that justifies the $800 average p&s AF how????

So if X is defective and owners are unhapppy then it is o.k. for Y to overcharge for average AF performance ...

GaryJP wrote:

Just look at comparative user satisfaction

It's not brain surgery

But like I said, you get to choose for yourself
--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

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GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Anyone ...

... whole believes his X10 and its interpolated 6mp has better IQ than this image, deserves his X10.

I certainly cannot take him seriously.

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Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Not a bad stab...

I think Canon should be praised for doing it a decent sized sensor in a camera like this.

On the other hand whist the high ISO looks good (from what I have seen) I'm not sure the lens is up to it..and the price hmmm that's quite pricey really

It might take a few goes to nail this one down £700 is too much for a camera of this type though.

You might pay £350 ish for a G/P series something with the small sensor (but still a step up from the tiny ones in most compacts) I can't see the justification in double the price though.

I'd pass myself even if someone gave me the cash it's too much I could spend it better elsewhere!

DC Alford Veteran Member • Posts: 4,144
Re: Well ...

Other than it is a sharp image shot at ISO 100 f4.5 & 8 sec., there is nothing else to really be said here Gary.

What exactly is supposed to have set this image apart from the X10? Apart from the sickly color that is?

Dan.

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GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
"For the price"

So funny. I can't say how many times people on this forum have said of the X10: "Stop reviewing the price. If people can afford it they can afford it."

What I can tell you is that the camera is flying off the shelves in places it's already on sale, the user satisfaction of those who have actually bought it is among the highest I have seen in a compact, and that some have even paid up to 25-30% OVER list price to get it in their hands sooner.

Where I am the price is somewhat cheaper. $750. It's worth it. Personally, even without the orbs, for a RAW shooter I consider my X10 an unreliable toy. With the emphasis on "unreliable". 6mp in this day and age is a farce for some of us. I's okay for a play snap shooter who prefers JPEG though I guess.

Anyhow you have information from both sides. What you do with it is your affair.

Fujifilm fan central seems a strange place to ask about a camera they view as the devil incarnate though if you TRULY want an assessment. Every review of the X10 I have seen, even with reservations, belies "Albert's" eyes.

People want to duck the X10 orbs issue here, and the red over-saturation, the noise at high ISOs (which I consider crap), the dodgy on-off switch in the lens, and - in my direct experience - Fuji's famous "Focus Error" message flaw. Design decisions and manufacturers' flaws are two different things.

If the design decisions don't suit you, of course you shouldn't go for it, but use your OWN eyes. You might also try DPReview's comparison tests, where even on its "soft edges" the G1X lens destroys the X10 on the batteries in the bottom left of the picture.

I, on the other hand, will be leaving my X10, GX1, and GF2 on the shelf more and more. EXCEPT when I am going out ONLY to shoot macros. It's annoying, because I spent a lot more money on bodies and lenses for my m43 system than I did for the G1X. In fact, I think just TWO of those lenses cost more than my G1 X, and m43 doesn't work better for me.

I found and find my X10 a lot of fun to use. It's just when I look at the pictures later I am tempted to weep.

Photofreak7 wrote:

100% agreed - for the price the G1X should be the best thng since sliced bread ... AF, IQ, etc..,

jimr wrote:

The fact that the X10 has the orbs has nothing to do with the Canon.

Skip that excuse as it is an irrelevant diversion from the Canon's average p&s AF in a $800 camera...You should expect better from Canon than average for that price...

IQ is very important but does not substitute for other expected performance issues at that lofty p&s price...

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jimr Forum Pro • Posts: 11,405
Re: Not a bad stab...

Agreed Barry...Canon has made a good first step and should be praised for that...but it is not nearly enough to justify its price...

Now they need to improve the performance in other crucial areas...

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

I think Canon should be praised for doing it a decent sized sensor in a camera like this.

GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
It makes sense ...

... to judge image quality without having had the camera in your hands for a considerable time.

Maybe it's just me, but to me it makes much less to talk authoritatively about handling issues when you have not.

jimr wrote:

Agreed Barry...Canon has made a good first step and should be praised for that...but it is not nearly enough to justify its price...

Now they need to improve the performance in other crucial areas...

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

I think Canon should be praised for doing it a decent sized sensor in a camera like this.

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