Reasons I should not buy a NEC Multisync PA241W-BK-SV

Started Feb 9, 2012 | Discussions
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Many Feathers Senior Member • Posts: 1,795
Reasons I should not buy a NEC Multisync PA241W-BK-SV

other than cost (which is a big one....but)

MF

Howard Moftich Veteran Member • Posts: 7,893
Re: Reasons I should not buy a NEC Multisync PA241W-BK-SV

none; it's a great monitor

Wayne Larmon Veteran Member • Posts: 9,403
Reasons to not buy the 'SV' bundle.
1

Many Feathers wrote:

other than cost (which is a big one....but)

The puck that is bundled with the SV package only works with NEC monitors. I recently bought a PA241W-BK, SpectraView II by itself, and an i1 Display Pro retail, so that I can use the i1DP (and the software that came with it) to calibrate other monitors. Such as the Samsung monitor that I use as a secondary monitor.

Also, some SV packages have the obsolete i1D2 puck. If you do get a SV package, make sure that it comes with the new MDSVSENSOR3
http://www.necdisplay.com/p/sensors/mdsvsensor3

puck (which is a locked down i1DP) It is about $50 more to buy everything separately so you can get a retail i1DP.

SpectraView II software by itself:
http://www.necdisplay.com/p/SVIISOFT-W

Other SV options:
http://www.necdisplay.com/support-and-services/spectra-view-II/Purchase

Wayne

lightreal New Member • Posts: 1
Re: Reasons to not buy the 'SV' bundle.

There is one other reason not to buy the SV bundle with NEC spectra sensor pro. If you are still using a power mac instead of an Intel mac, it simply will not work. I have a quad core power mac and haven't upgraded since I'm waiting for Apple to finally do a major upgrade this year. I read all the NEC info before getting the spectra sensor pro and NO mention was made that they only run on Intel macs. I had to call the NEC tech people who fessed up about it. You can't even make a profile of a monitor with an Intel Mac and transfer it to the power mac.

Rkelac Regular Member • Posts: 466
Re: Reasons I should not buy a NEC Multisync PA241W-BK-SV

Many Feathers wrote:

other than cost (which is a big one....but)

MF

Just to add on the cost factor, you may want to spend $150 more and get the 27 inch.

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Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Veteran Member • Posts: 6,472
Another vote for basic PA

I second others' suggestion to get the monitor, SV software, and Xrite i1 Display Pro sensor separately. As for the monitor itself, it's terrific. I've got the 27", and it's the best monitor I've ever worked with, by a large margin. I've compared it to Apple, older NEC, and high-end Eizo displays, and neutrals are noticeably cleaner. Compared to the PA, gray looks magenta/bronze on every other display.

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just Tony Senior Member • Posts: 1,291
Re: Reasons to not buy the 'SV' bundle.

Wayne Larmon wrote:

The puck that is bundled with the SV package only works with NEC monitors.

I found that to not be correct with the prior version of the puck, the NEC-branded Eye One Display 2. It worked quite well on a Dell monitor using the MacBeth software. I have the NEC-branded Display Pro but haven't tried it with those non-NEC products yet. Maybe they did lock down the new one.

Also, some SV packages have the obsolete i1D2 puck.

I wouldn't call the older one obsolete in a functional sense. It works with the current SpectraView software and continues to deliver good results. I agree that the new one is at least slightly preferable:

On the strength of your recommendation I picked up a used copy of the newer calibrator and found it to give a theoretically better calibration. My Delta-E's went from 0.8 average and 1.2 max down to 0.55 average and 0.75 max. Multiple sources advise that Delta-E values below 2 are what you want and don't obsess over differences below that. And sure enough I don't perceive any difference within Photoshop or Lightroom but I won't refuse technically better numbers. If anyone with better eyes than mine looks at my monitor I'm covered.

Wayne Larmon Veteran Member • Posts: 9,403
Re: Reasons to not buy the 'SV' bundle.

just Tony wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote:

The puck that is bundled with the SV package only works with NEC monitors.

I found that to not be correct with the prior version of the puck, the NEC-branded Eye One Display 2. It worked quite well on a Dell monitor using the MacBeth software. I have the NEC-branded Display Pro but haven't tried it with those non-NEC products yet. Maybe they did lock down the new one.

Will Hollingworth, Senior Manager, Product Development, NEC Display Solutions of America, Inc. said

Note that the NEC SpectraSensor Pro is not supported in the X-Rite software.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=55382.msg476865#msg476865

When I was researching my own system I read a lot of posts on the Luminous Landscape "Color Management" forum.  This questions was specifically asked and Mr. Hollingworth answered it.  Read his full response--he basically says what I had said, earlier.  (I was paraphrasing his post, from memory.)

Also, some SV packages have the obsolete i1D2 puck.

I wouldn't call the older one obsolete in a functional sense. It works with the current SpectraView software and continues to deliver good results. I agree that the new one is at least slightly preferable:

On the strength of your recommendation I picked up a used copy of the newer calibrator and found it to give a theoretically better calibration. My Delta-E's went from 0.8 average and 1.2 max down to 0.55 average and 0.75 max. Multiple sources advise that Delta-E values below 2 are what you want and don't obsess over differences below that. And sure enough I don't perceive any difference within Photoshop or Lightroom but I won't refuse technically better numbers. If anyone with better eyes than mine looks at my monitor I'm covered.

Yeah, "obsolete" was overstating it.  I should have phrased it more along the lines that the i1DP is better.  See the Dry Creek Photo test of Display Calibration Capabilities.  They concluded

Both of the newest devices on the market, the i1Display Pro and Discus, perform much better than any previously available instrument.

The Discus costs more than $1,000.  He also said

...any given Eye-One Display 2 may be much less accurate than average.  The newer i1Display Pro is another instrument entirely, and much more accurate.

The problem with color management calibration devices is that it is tricky to test accuracy.  Unless you are somebody like Dry Creek Photo that tests pucks by the hundred and tests them against $20,000+ lab grade instruments.  The best that we civilians can do is go by the recommendations of experts.

Wayne

PicOne
PicOne Veteran Member • Posts: 6,923
Re: Reasons I should buy a NEC Multisync PA241W-BK-SV

Leaving aside the aRGB compatibility for the moment, I'm curious how this newer monitor would really compare to my "old" 2490 wUXi model with SV?   I still think my monitor is awesome, would I notice a difference though with this newer model?

would I see a gain just getting latest SV software and the newer puck?

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just Tony Senior Member • Posts: 1,291
Re: Reasons to not buy the 'SV' bundle.

Wayne Larmon wrote:

just Tony wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote:

The puck that is bundled with the SV package only works with NEC monitors.

I found that to not be correct with the prior version of the puck, the NEC-branded Eye One Display 2. It worked quite well on a Dell monitor using the MacBeth software. I have the NEC-branded Display Pro but haven't tried it with those non-NEC products yet. Maybe they did lock down the new one.

Will Hollingworth, Senior Manager, Product Development, NEC Display Solutions of America, Inc. said

Note that the NEC SpectraSensor Pro is not supported in the X-Rite software.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=55382.msg476865#msg476865

When I was researching my own system I read a lot of posts on the Luminous Landscape "Color Management" forum.  This questions was specifically asked and Mr. Hollingworth answered it.  Read his full response--he basically says what I had said, earlier.  (I was paraphrasing his post, from memory.

My interpretation is that he's talking about the device on the left in my picture below. My 2-software success was with the one on the right which came in the full NEC bundle I bought some time back.

When I connect the puck on the right to the X-Rite software it self identifies as an X-Rite device, not NEC.

Another quote from Will was interesting:

"Due to the device "locking" mechanism implemented on the new sensors, each software application must be given the keys to access each different device. We will work with other software vendors on this issue as necessary, however our immediate priority is supporting the NEC device in the NEC software."

Those keys are apparently working behind the scenes with no user participation required. I bought the puck on the left above a few days ago, as a used product. I didn't see any key codes on the included CD, which I didn't use anyway. I installed a new version of SpectraView from the NEC website and my non-matched puck worked immediately.

See the Dry Creek Photo test of Display Calibration Capabilities.  They concluded

Both of the newest devices on the market, the i1Display Pro and Discus, perform much better than any previously available instrument.

The Discus costs more than $1,000.  He also said

...any given Eye-One Display 2 may be much less accurate than average.  The newer i1Display Pro is another instrument entirely, and much more accurate.

The problem with color management calibration devices is that it is tricky to test accuracy.  Unless you are somebody like Dry Creek Photo that tests pucks by the hundred and tests them against $20,000+ lab grade instruments.

Looking at the text that NEC added to those two pucks I suppose that NEC is telling us that they did some kind of added work, possibly motivated by the less precise calibrations coming out of X-Rite.

My take is that there is more hardware precision (possibly in the form of more selective spectral passbands) in the newer X-Rite devices. I also suspect that NEC has all along been providing some measure of additional value by performing calibrations of the X-Rite pucks on reference NEC monitors.

just Tony Senior Member • Posts: 1,291
Re: Reasons I should buy a NEC Multisync PA241W-BK-SV

PicOne wrote:

Leaving aside the aRGB compatibility for the moment, I'm curious how this newer monitor would really compare to my "old" 2490 wUXi model with SV?   I still think my monitor is awesome, would I notice a difference though with this newer model?

would I see a gain just getting latest SV software and the newer puck?

You might find all the reviews you need at tftcentral dot com.

Wayne Larmon Veteran Member • Posts: 9,403
Re: Reasons to not buy the 'SV' bundle.

just Tony wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote:

When I was researching my own system I read a lot of posts on the Luminous Landscape "Color Management" forum.  This questions was specifically asked and Mr. Hollingworth answered it.  Read his full response--he basically says what I had said, earlier.  (I was paraphrasing his post, from memory.

My interpretation is that he's talking about the device on the left in my picture below. My 2-software success was with the one on the right which came in the full NEC bundle I bought some time back.

The devices on the left is a re-badged i1 Display Pro.  This is the one that will only work with NEC software.

The device on the right is a re-badged Monaco (XRite) DTP-94.  I used a DTP-94 (with Monaco software) for years before I switched to my NEC PA241W/Spectraview II/i1DP.   Stock DTP-94s are (usually) sRGB only, so NEC definitely did something to make theirs be wide-gamut.

When I connect the puck on the right to the X-Rite software it self identifies as an X-Rite device, not NEC.

Another quote from Will was interesting:

"Due to the device "locking" mechanism implemented on the new sensors, each software application must be given the keys to access each different device. We will work with other software vendors on this issue as necessary, however our immediate priority is supporting the NEC device in the NEC software."

Those keys are apparently working behind the scenes with no user participation required. I bought the puck on the left above a few days ago, as a used product. I didn't see any key codes on the included CD, which I didn't use anyway. I installed a new version of SpectraView from the NEC website and my non-matched puck worked immediately.

Cool.  Any flavor of an i1DP should be real good.  Based on Dry Creek Photo.  And anything else I've read.

See the Dry Creek Photo test of Display Calibration Capabilities.  They concluded

Both of the newest devices on the market, the i1Display Pro and Discus, perform much better than any previously available instrument.

The Discus costs more than $1,000.  He also said

...any given Eye-One Display 2 may be much less accurate than average.  The newer i1Display Pro is another instrument entirely, and much more accurate.

The problem with color management calibration devices is that it is tricky to test accuracy.  Unless you are somebody like Dry Creek Photo that tests pucks by the hundred and tests them against $20,000+ lab grade instruments.

Looking at the text that NEC added to those two pucks I suppose that NEC is telling us that they did some kind of added work, possibly motivated by the less precise calibrations coming out of X-Rite.

My take is that there is more hardware precision (possibly in the form of more selective spectral passbands) in the newer X-Rite devices. I also suspect that NEC has all along been providing some measure of additional value by performing calibrations of the X-Rite pucks on reference NEC monitors.

I think that this was true for pucks earlier than the i1DP.  Reread what Dry Creek Photo says for all pucks earlier than the i1DP (not counting the Discus, which is in another class.

Note that Will Hollingworth didn't make any claims for the NEC badged i1DP.  He only said that it was $50 cheaper.  And was firmware locked so that it only worked with NEC monitors.   (All references are to links I gave earlier.)

Wayne

ZoranC Veteran Member • Posts: 5,569
Re: Reasons to not buy the 'SV' bundle.

Wayne Larmon wrote: I recently bought a PA241W-BK, SpectraView II by itself, and an i1 Display Pro retail, so that I can use the i1DP (and the software that came with it) to calibrate other monitors.

If I already have regular retail copy of i1 Display Pro and don't have NEC monitor would I get any benefit from getting SpectraView II software?

Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Veteran Member • Posts: 6,472
SV software only for NEC displays

ZoranC wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote: I recently bought a PA241W-BK, SpectraView II by itself, and an i1 Display Pro retail, so that I can use the i1DP (and the software that came with it) to calibrate other monitors.

If I already have regular retail copy of i1 Display Pro and don't have NEC monitor would I get any benefit from getting SpectraView II software?

No, the SpectraView software only calibrates NEC's pro-oriented displays. This is why people who own both an NEC PA display and a laptop or another brand of display are interested in getting the Xrite i1DP - because it can work with the SV software on the NEC display and can be used with the included Xrite software with other displays.

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Wayne Larmon Veteran Member • Posts: 9,403
Sorry, not a DTP-94

Wayne Larmon wrote:

The device on the right is a re-badged Monaco (XRite) DTP-94  I used a DTP-94 (with Monaco software) for years before I switched to my NEC PA241W/Spectraview II/i1DP.   Stock DTP-94s are (usually) sRGB only, so NEC definitely did something to make theirs be wide-gamut.

I was going from memory and my memory was wrong.  (I just now looked in my storage drawer and my old DTP-94 looks different.)  The device on the right isn't a DTP-94.  I think it is a rebadged i1 Display Pro 2.  But I think that I was correct that NEC did do some kind of recalibration to make it wide gamut.  I think that the stock i1D2 was only sRGB.   And I don't think that NEC does any kind of recalibration for i1DPs, because they are accurate for wide band out of the box.

Wayne

ZoranC Veteran Member • Posts: 5,569
Re: SV software only for NEC displays

Majikthize wrote:

ZoranC wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote: I recently bought a PA241W-BK, SpectraView II by itself, and an i1 Display Pro retail, so that I can use the i1DP (and the software that came with it) to calibrate other monitors.

If I already have regular retail copy of i1 Display Pro and don't have NEC monitor would I get any benefit from getting SpectraView II software?

No, the SpectraView software only calibrates NEC's pro-oriented displays. This is why people who own both an NEC PA display and a laptop or another brand of display are interested in getting the Xrite i1DP - because it can work with the SV software on the NEC display and can be used with the included Xrite software with other displays.

Thank you!

Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Veteran Member • Posts: 6,472
You're welcome!

ZoranC wrote:

Majikthize wrote:

ZoranC wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote: I recently bought a PA241W-BK, SpectraView II by itself, and an i1 Display Pro retail, so that I can use the i1DP (and the software that came with it) to calibrate other monitors.

If I already have regular retail copy of i1 Display Pro and don't have NEC monitor would I get any benefit from getting SpectraView II software?

No, the SpectraView software only calibrates NEC's pro-oriented displays. This is why people who own both an NEC PA display and a laptop or another brand of display are interested in getting the Xrite i1DP - because it can work with the SV software on the NEC display and can be used with the included Xrite software with other displays.

Thank you!

Thanks for the thanks. Glad I was able to help.

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Radu Tenenbaum
Radu Tenenbaum Senior Member • Posts: 2,866
Re: SV software only for NEC displays

Similar question but reverse situation.  If I already have the I1Display Pro with the i1Profiler software and get the NEC monitor (which I'm considering), would it be worthwhile getting the SV software?

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Radu
www.raduray.com

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Charles2 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,583
Re: Reasons I should buy a NEC Multisync PA241W-BK-SV

PicOne wrote:

Leaving aside the aRGB compatibility for the moment, I'm curious how this newer monitor would really compare to my "old" 2490 wUXi model with SV?

The aRGB color space makes a difference over sRGB in what you see with many images. It also lets you see pretty much what a quality inkjet photo printer will print.

You can compare the gamut of your monitor with this gamut reading from a PA241W:

Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Veteran Member • Posts: 6,472
Re: SV software only for NEC displays

Radu Tenenbaum wrote:

Similar question but reverse situation.  If I already have the I1Display Pro with the i1Profiler software and get the NEC monitor (which I'm considering), would it be worthwhile getting the SV software?

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Radu
www.raduray.com

I haven't had a chance to do a direct comparison. A friend of mine has a PA271 with the i1DP and both i1Profiler and SV software, so next time I'm at his place I'll check it out. I'd say the answer is yes, even if only for the conveniences. SV gives you the ability to create lots of custom profiles and save them in the monitor's circuitry, so that you can easily switch brightness levels and color spaces without having to recalibrate each time. Handy when you want to edit in aRGB, preview in sRGB, and then watch a movie. Also, once you've set your preferences and settings, calibrating is a one-click affair. Super-easy to use.

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