Nikon Spanked By m4/3 in DPR Review?

Started Jan 21, 2012 | Discussions
ADSinger Senior Member • Posts: 1,707
Nikon Spanked By m4/3 in DPR Review?

Well at least by the numbers. We complained that DPR always seemed to give low 70's scores to all m4/3 reviews. So today they test the Nikons and they're scored in the 60's! I guess we can stop complaining about any perceived bias against m4/3.

Alan.
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jeffharris
jeffharris Veteran Member • Posts: 9,190
Re: Nikon Spanked By m4/3 in DPR Review?

ADSinger wrote:

Well at least by the numbers. We complained that DPR always seemed to give low 70's scores to all m4/3 reviews. So today they test the Nikons and they're scored in the 60's! I guess we can stop complaining about any perceived bias against m4/3.

Which Nikon cameras got slapped?

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Melbourne Park Senior Member • Posts: 2,683
Re: Nikon Spanked By m4/3 in DPR Review?

Strangely when one hits the comparison button at the final page, there is no GX1 listed.

Funny that.

There are so many things wrong with the Nikon, yet it rates very highly - if one follows DPR's numbers. Yet verbally, they do not actually recommend buying it, expect for moving action shots in good light.

The given comparisons compared it to the GF3, which has been out for some time. And the G3, which is about the same size and cost, was not actively compared to it.

But if one read the whole review, it was not full of praise.

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LincolnB Veteran Member • Posts: 4,377
"Spanked" is a little harsh
1

... but they were quite limited and specific in any praise. They did not like it as a general purpose camera nor as a 'downgrade' for current DSLR owners. Their recommendation was limited to P&S upgraders shooting fast moving objects in bright light. That's narrow.

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jalywol
jalywol Veteran Member • Posts: 9,637
Re: "Spanked" is a little harsh

Actually, I think spanked is pretty accurate....DPR really gives the impression that they truly did not like this camera, in this review.

I'm not sure I have read another review from them that was this negative. They are clearly trying to be fair about it, but it does not push any of the right buttons for them....

-J

Ray Sachs
Ray Sachs Forum Pro • Posts: 10,580
Narrow in one sense

LincolnB wrote:

Their recommendation was limited to P&S upgraders shooting fast moving objects in bright light. That's narrow.

Narrow in the sense of what photography can be and is for a lot of US, but probably a pretty huge market segment - anyone with active kids who wants something better than a P&S would be a good candidate. Narrow and broad at the same time.

-Ray
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micksh6
micksh6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,613
Re: Nikon Spanked By m4/3 in DPR Review?

jeffharris wrote:

Which Nikon cameras got slapped?

The ones that DPR reviewed today.

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Jorginho Forum Pro • Posts: 14,636
They adressed the right points

from my own, very limited experience but also compared to reviews in Dutch and GErmans magazines, some of which did people advise NOT to buy the cam (at that price)...

I have to say that I felt, after reading the review it shoud have scored 72-74 points.
So I find this review a bit harsh actually.

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Corkcampbell
Corkcampbell Forum Pro • Posts: 18,520
Huh? GH2 got (deservedly) 79. (nt)

no text

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s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 12,725
Re: Did Nikon misbehave on the carpet? (n/t)
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I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.

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LincolnB Veteran Member • Posts: 4,377
Re: Narrow in one sense

True, but they'd better be outdoor kids. DPR wasn't happy with indoor performance at all.

Ray Sachs wrote:

LincolnB wrote:

Their recommendation was limited to P&S upgraders shooting fast moving objects in bright light. That's narrow.

Narrow in the sense of what photography can be and is for a lot of US, but probably a pretty huge market segment - anyone with active kids who wants something better than a P&S would be a good candidate. Narrow and broad at the same time.

-Ray
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Jeremy_T Senior Member • Posts: 1,224
Re: "Spanked" is a little harsh

LincolnB wrote:

... but they were quite limited and specific in any praise. They did not like it as a general purpose camera nor as a 'downgrade' for current DSLR owners. Their recommendation was limited to P&S upgraders shooting fast moving objects in bright light. That's narrow.

They even specifically mention the lowly PM1 and GF3 as superior options in many respects.

I think one of the most telling points is where the reviewer mentions that DPR tries to avoid considering price in a review, and how difficult it was to do in this case considering how expensive they are. These things still score below much cheaper cameras even when trying to keep price out of the equation - ouch.

One must remember though that DPR is first and foremost an enthusiast site and the reviewers themselves are obviously enthusiasts. They can try to get in the headspace of P&S upgraders, but that's not always easy to do. Maybe the Nikon 1 shtick - focusing well on fast moving subjects in good light - really is worth the massive price premium for a lot of people (I wouldn't count on it myself, but you never know).

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OP ADSinger Senior Member • Posts: 1,707
What If They Were Samsungs?

Not to call out Samsung, but if these Nikons had come from a second tier manufacturer, they would be in jeopardy of being laughed off the market. At their price point and performance level they would be deemed unacceptable. But with the magic Nikon name they will undoubtedly sell well, perhaps better than the m4/3 models. Doebn't make 'em better though...

Alan.
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LincolnB Veteran Member • Posts: 4,377
The Nikon 1 problems

They have two problems.

1. The Nikon 1 is more a narrow niche camera than what they might have hoped.

2. Other mirrorless technologies have a big head start in market penetration. At current sales rates it will be a very long time before the number of Nikon 1 units sold approaches the number of Nex or M43 units in the market. It means Sony and M43 will have a larger base of lens owners to sell new cameras and new lenses to.

jalywol wrote:

Actually, I think spanked is pretty accurate....DPR really gives the impression that they truly did not like this camera, in this review.

I'm not sure I have read another review from them that was this negative. They are clearly trying to be fair about it, but it does not push any of the right buttons for them....

-J

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Everdog Veteran Member • Posts: 4,837
Good try...with a LONG way to go

It is a good size and has some nice ideas, but IMHO, we won't see any good lenses for a year or 3. It will take a while to work out the bugs..and Nikon will never let it hurt their DSLR sales.

Nikon fans will love it of course, but Nikon will never let it compete with their APS DSLRs, so it will always be crippled. DSLRs are Nikon's cash cow, and management there (like at Canon) is too scared to mess that up.

Nikon will alway want you think the 1 system is a stepping stone to bigger cameras, IMHO.

cococat Contributing Member • Posts: 502
Re: Nikon Spanked By m4/3 in DPR Review?

The Nikon iS not a bad camera but it is very expensive for what you are getting. Its great if you like to shoot in P mode!

The form factor is good and I hope Oly can build in a viewfinder into the EP-4 rangefinder style body (or OM) instead of the onboard flash.

A friend has one and the thing he dislikes most is the mode dial on the back is too easy to move accidentally.

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BoxWatcher

LincolnB Veteran Member • Posts: 4,377
Re: What If They Were Samsungs?

I think you're talking about a fate worse than that of the Pentax Q, which is currently languishing in sales.

The DPR staff have serious reservations about the ability of the Nikon 1 to serve their intended target -- point & shoot upgraders who stay in Auto mode. Even so, they're predicting Nikon will sell millions. DPR worries these millions will be let down by the Auto ISO issues, WB issues, etc.

They've jumped onto a thread on the Nikon 1 forum and expanded their point of view a bit:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1058&message=40376916

ADSinger wrote:

Not to call out Samsung, but if these Nikons had come from a second tier manufacturer, they would be in jeopardy of being laughed off the market. At their price point and performance level they would be deemed unacceptable. But with the magic Nikon name they will undoubtedly sell well, perhaps better than the m4/3 models. Doebn't make 'em better though...

Alan.
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micksh6
micksh6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,613
Re: Narrow in one sense

LincolnB wrote:

True, but they'd better be outdoor kids. DPR wasn't happy with indoor performance at all.

It must be added that they better be outdoor kids in bright sunlight. According to review overcast is a borderline where PDAF can be deactivated and N1 will trail behind other MILCs in CDAF.

And N1 users get other stuff in focus with their kids too, because background separation is minimal. If background separation is not important, how about closing aperture a bit and have everything in focus? This is what P&S cameras could do since long time ago.

Ray Sachs wrote:

LincolnB wrote:

Their recommendation was limited to P&S upgraders shooting fast moving objects in bright light. That's narrow.

Narrow in the sense of what photography can be and is for a lot of US, but probably a pretty huge market segment - anyone with active kids who wants something better than a P&S would be a good candidate. Narrow and broad at the same time.

-Ray
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Kwick1 Contributing Member • Posts: 877
Can't believe what they said about high ISO

It's unbelievable to me that DPR said that the Nikons had better high ISO performance than m43. Did they even look at their own comparison tool? It's not even close. The Nikons turn to mush while even the E-PL1 are great.
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LincolnB Veteran Member • Posts: 4,377
Re: Narrow in one sense

micksh6 wrote:

LincolnB wrote:

True, but they'd better be outdoor kids. DPR wasn't happy with indoor performance at all.

It must be added that they better be outdoor kids in bright sunlight. According to review overcast is a borderline where PDAF can be deactivated and N1 will trail behind other MILCs in CDAF.

Then it gets interesting. Is Nikon 1's CDAF inferior to other vendor's CDAF?

And N1 users get other stuff in focus with their kids too, because background separation is minimal. If background separation is not important, how about closing aperture a bit and have everything in focus? This is what P&S cameras could do since long time ago.

That's good for macro work, I suppose.

A lack of wide angle lenses will be much worse than the M43 situation - especially for legacy lenses -- due to the crop factor.

The upshot for M43 is that I don't think a bunch of lens manufacturers will jump ship to start building lenses for Nikon 1. The future for M43 lenses looks good. M43 camera sales will continue to take some customers from both P&S upgraders and DSLR downsizers. Nikon 1 will compete for first-time camera owners and P&S upgraders but won't capture many DSLR owners except for a few Nikon diehards. Sony's NEX will remain M43's biggest competition.

Ray Sachs wrote:

LincolnB wrote:

Their recommendation was limited to P&S upgraders shooting fast moving objects in bright light. That's narrow.

Narrow in the sense of what photography can be and is for a lot of US, but probably a pretty huge market segment - anyone with active kids who wants something better than a P&S would be a good candidate. Narrow and broad at the same time.

-Ray
-------------------------
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