Review of the J1 and V1 are up

Started Jan 20, 2012 | Discussions
jonikon Veteran Member • Posts: 7,301
Re: Too much talk of shortcomings and not enough of capabilities . . . balance is off

jack scholl wrote:

First reaction after a quick read . . .
1. I agree with all the shortcomings regarding modes, firmware, etc, etc

2. Way too much emphasis on what they don't do well and way too little on their current capabilities (and no discussion of the future potential of such a clear superior AF system). We have had both the NEX 5N and 7 and returned them. Neither could have captured the sequence in this post.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1058&message=40369240

3. No discussion on the size/weight advantage of the body/lens combo. Take a look at any 300mm kit and compare it to the V1/30-110. Not even close. We don't take pics with bodies . . .
4. We have seen no penalty in using the FT1 with our D7000 lenses.

The Nikon 1 is clearly a first release. But the fact that "for some uses, it's the only game in town" has been relegated to a footnote in an evaluation of the value of the camera.

IMO Laing, Huff, Mansurovs, Hogan, Galbraith, Odell, and a couple other pro's provided much more balanced reviews.

Jack

I agree with you that DPR has been unduly harsh with their 67% rating of the Nikon System 1 cameras while not giving Nikon any credit for the unique advantages of this system that you have pointed out. As an example DPR criticized the V1 for not having in-camera RAW processing, while giving their highest gold award to the Sony SLT-a65 which also lacks this feature but does have "Very noisy raw files at high ISO settings". Not very even handed journalism at work here.

Best regards,
Jon

HappyDan New Member • Posts: 1
Re: DPR has many reservations

HappyVan wrote:

But, that is normal for 1st Gen products.

V1 has rating of 69 and J1 67. Nex5 was 71. Pany GF1 was 69 and EPL1 69. Interestingly, GF3 71 points and EPL3 72 points. NEX5N has risen to 79 points.

So, it's up to Nikon to build on N1 strengths and address various issues.

Good Luck.

It could get very, very interesting

Rockchan Contributing Member • Posts: 868
Re: The novice argument is a red herring

Such sophisticated users are very limited in this world today. If Nikon is targeting such kind of user, Nikon 1 system will only fail. It is because such limited numbers of sophisticated users may not choose Nikon 1.

Moreover, while even prosumer or normal point and shoot have bracketing and histrograms, they are not luxuries. They are just like a CD/MP3 player in a car. You can still drive a car without MP3 player, but many people will simply consider another model if they cannot play music in the car.

Wellington100 wrote:

TEBnewyork wrote:

But that is the whole point. A sophisticated system for sophisticated users wouldn't leave off bracketing, live histogram, no turn off of image review, no mode dial, no quick menu....

Ironically though, without those features, the sophisticated user is more able to adapt to the cameras capabilities than is the hypothetical novice, these limitations make it even more likely that the camera is suitable for sophisticated users who know their way around exposure compensation, spot metering and such like.

Bracketing and histograms are luxuries, not necessities.

I like the V1 and am enjoying using it but both sets of users are left wanting something more in certain areas (functionality).
--
terry
http://www.terrybanet.com

joeyv Contributing Member • Posts: 587
Re: Standard review format

The review is okay but (unfortunately) follows a standardized review format. And that format places little emphasis on the strengths of the Nikon 1 series, specially the V1. Somehow, I fell that that reviewer "misses the point" of the Nikon 1 cameras. There are many unique capabilities that the these cameras offer:

1.) AF speed & tracking that can keep up with action. No other mirrorless camera can do that.

2.) Speed in fps, buffer depth and processing speed.Other mirrorless are not even close.
3.) Full res. still captures in while shooting video. Unique.
4.) 1/250 flash sync.

The other mirrorless cameras are nice but do not bring any unique capability. They all do the same thing.

I feel that the reviewer places more emphasis to slightly better hi-iso capability than anything else. Somehow, I don't think the average Jane will care too much that camera A has slightly more grain than camera B at iso 3200. She might not even know what grain is. She will definitely notice which cam will produce blurry pics of her son playing soccer.

Finally, the V1 is cheaper than its competitors once you factor in the cost of the additional EVF of the EP3 and the NEX. That should be mentioned in the review, at least. Better yet, take out the comment about it being more expensive.

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joeyv

panos_m Senior Member • Posts: 1,521
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

Fullframer wrote:

If you want to shoot moving subjects with a small camera in low light than the M43 with the Panasonic pancake F1.7 are the only game in town.

My GF1 with 20mm/1.7 cannot auto-focus at all in low light. It hunts endlessly. How to shoot moving subjects?

-- hide signature --

Panagiotis

joeyv Contributing Member • Posts: 587
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

Dp reiewers should check there facts. V1 is cheaper than EP3 or Nex with additional EVF. Compare apples to apples.
--
joeyv

joeyv Contributing Member • Posts: 587
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

R Butler wrote:

Actually, our concern is that the camera is likely to let down the camera buyer with simple needs. We tried to give credit for the AF system but in the point-and-shoot Auto modes, the camera makes some very odd shutter speed/ISO choices in anything less than good light.

The conclusion makes clear where the Nikon 1's strengths lie and, as we say, for some uses, it's the only game in town. But as a point-and-shoot mirrorless camera (and an expensive one at that) we believe it will let a lot of people down.

Richard - dpreview.com

Is that not why it has a SHUTTER PRIORITY AUTO MODE? Nikons auto modes are implemented differently from the others but that doesn't mean it is less capable. Just choose another auto mode. It is explained in the manual.

The V1 is not more expensive than the EP3 or NEX with EVF. (Again)

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joeyv

Jorgen E Senior Member • Posts: 1,730
Novices?

Barney Britton wrote:

This is our point - the J1 and V1 will let novices down, in some respects.
bb

And my point is, that this review fails in understanding that the V1 to a rather large extent, seems to be used by other photographers than those almost mythical "novices".

Everyone I know, who has bought a V1 (four people, five with me), are somewhere between "keen amature" and "semi-professional".

-- hide signature --

Take care,
Jorgen

Probere necesse est.....

Jorgen E Senior Member • Posts: 1,730
Only if...

HappyVan wrote:

topstuff wrote:

Here is my thinking..

DPR have not given sufficient weight to the single most important element of why people buy a new camera..

IMO, the DPR conclusion is fair enough.

Perhaps it is, but only if their point of reference is "Soccer Moms and Novices".

-- hide signature --

Take care,
Jorgen

Probere necesse est.....

panos_m Senior Member • Posts: 1,521
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

Fullframer wrote:
Both cameras stink for shooting moving subjects/sports. For that a DSLR...

Actually experienced photographers say that Nikon 1 af tracking is comparable to DSLR af tracking:
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/galapagos-focus-testing.html

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Panagiotis

shoooot Regular Member • Posts: 358
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

panos_m wrote:

Fullframer wrote:

If you want to shoot moving subjects with a small camera in low light than the M43 with the Panasonic pancake F1.7 are the only game in town.

My GF1 with 20mm/1.7 cannot auto-focus at all in low light. It hunts endlessly. How to shoot moving subjects?

My GF1 seems to do very well in low light with the 20mm. Even in complete darkness (w/AF light). Not quite as fast as with the 25mm 1.4

Alejandro Daz del Ro Fery
Alejandro Daz del Ro Fery Veteran Member • Posts: 3,735
Re: Review of the J1 and V1 are up

"Others" invest heavily in these marketing part things, Nikon near nothing.

Nikon 1 is the system to carry everywhere outside the shower, it's light years ahead "others". IMO.
--
Un saludo.

panos_m Senior Member • Posts: 1,521
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

shoooot wrote:

panos_m wrote:

Fullframer wrote:

If you want to shoot moving subjects with a small camera in low light than the M43 with the Panasonic pancake F1.7 are the only game in town.

My GF1 with 20mm/1.7 cannot auto-focus at all in low light. It hunts endlessly. How to shoot moving subjects?

My GF1 seems to do very well in low light with the 20mm. Even in complete darkness (w/AF light). Not quite as fast as with the 25mm 1.4

Unfortunately this is not my experience.
--
Panagiotis

VBLondon Senior Member • Posts: 1,161
Re: Review of the J1 and V1 are up

I have to say I found the review content very fair. I certainly find the DPR reviews highly dependable in giving me the objective facts about a camera's performance and pros/cons.

The overall evaluation is then much more subjective. You have to have a context and use-case and weighting of attributes. DPR have done this, and I think it is a fair basis for their conclusion. But no single weighting/context/use-case is "the truth". Personally, I think they've taken too literally the "P&S upgrader" segment targeting. It is also a direct competitor for the m43 and NEX systems for enthusiasts.

As a P&S upgrader camera, the auto-iso programme is poor. If I were Nikon, I'd be glad the biggesst weakness is something so easily fixed in firmware!

As an enthusiast camera, the weaknesses are the firmware quirks (irritating but ultimately trivial) and the lens selection. BUT, the strengths are the operating speed, AF, metering, colour/tone, compactness (10-30 and 30-110 much more compact than m43 and a fraction the size of NEX), built in EVF. Pretty much the only major negative is the image detail for the big print landscape shooter. I tend to think DPR over-weight the image detail/manual control thing for enthusiast cameras. As many of the pros reviews show, there are many serious users who have no need for 24MP etc.

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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 14,097
What is it with "Average Jane" & "Soccer Mom?"

joeyv wrote:

Somehow, I don't think the average Jane will care too much that camera A has slightly more grain than camera B at iso 3200. She might not even know what grain is. She will definitely notice which cam will produce blurry pics of her son playing soccer.

There are countless men with digital cameras who don't know a hoot about grain/noise or much of anything about fine tuning camera settings; who keep their cameras on auto mode, etc.

Sorry, I don't mean to single you out but this is the third time I've read a term like this in this thread (and I haven't yet read the entire thread). Sadly, drpreview also uses the term "soccer mom" on the conclusion page of their review.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/page19.asp

May I suggest the use of alternative, inoffensive, gender-neutral words such as "novice," "beginner."

daniel broad Regular Member • Posts: 238
Re: What is it with "Average Jane" & "Soccer Mom?"

Nikon should read this review, and this forum, then implement a straightforward firmware upgrade; HDR bracketing, minimimum shutter speed in auto ISO select, AFC with the FT1 adapter. That would, in a stroke, wipe out the major criticisms suggested in this review.

As it is, there's one major factor not mentioned fully which may persuade potential buyers; if you want digiscoping levels of telephoto reach with existing moderate telephoto Nikkor lenses, and at their fullest AF speed, then this is the camera to get. Nikon birders or wildlife day trippers are loving this camera setup.

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KnightPhoto2
KnightPhoto2 Senior Member • Posts: 2,029
Re: Review of the J1 and V1 are up

I agree with the criticism of the Auto-ISO mode. What is needed is the D4's focal length sensitive Auto-ISO (plus multiplier or subtracter feature to taste). And yep I'm annoyed by some of the configuration and handling issues and lack of a My Menu.

Having said that, not awarding these cameras a silver award (and the effectively non-recomendation in the conclusion) given the very good IQ, huge AF advantage and huge huge fps and deep buffer advantages they have is, hmm need to pick a very strong word, unconscionable. I really really can't imagine how Dpreview justifies that. Sorry Amazon.com but you just aren't cutting it for me and I am really dismayed by this review given all the Nikon 1 breakthroughs. I mean really c'mon you've got to be kidding. Oh that's right I'll just compare it to the other cameras with on-sensor PDAF, oh what's that you say? Of all the whinging sense of entitlement generation type thinking, this really takes the cake.

Dpreview I will be posting less, viewing less, and certainly not shopping at Amazon

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Clayton1985 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,416
Re: Review of the J1 and V1 are up

Exactly. The assessment of each individual area is mostly fair and reasonable. It is the weighting and value placed on each of these that misleads the potential buyer. IMO, the metering, focus speed, color, image quality, lens image quality, battery life and build quality should carry significantly more weight than others. However, use the GF3 as a comparison and you will see that the GF3 scored a 71 with the biggest advantages in video and "value". I've owned both cameras and for me these scores aren't close to my real world experience. I'm not faulting the review since you have to use a system and try to be consistent but it would be beneficial to select from a list of important criteria and have the results weighted accordingly.

I do agree with a few of the negative findings - CDAF performance is so so, autoISO needs a min shutter speed, and a programmable f button is needed.

I wouldn't, however, change to another mirrorless system because of any of the above. The only reason I could envision changing systems in the future would be it became obvious that Nikon was not supporting the system with the needed improvements and especially if new lenses aren't coming out fast enough.

Jorgen E Senior Member • Posts: 1,730
Well spoken...

KnightPhoto2 wrote:

.....not awarding these cameras a silver award (and the effectively non-recomendation in the conclusion) given the very good IQ, huge AF advantage and huge huge fps and deep buffer advantages they have is, hmm need to pick a very strong word, unconscionable. I really really can't imagine how Dpreview justifies that. Sorry Amazon.com but you just aren't cutting it for me and I am really dismayed by this review given all the Nikon 1 breakthroughs.

Couldn't agree more.

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Take care,
Jorgen

Probere necesse est.....

webrunner5
webrunner5 Senior Member • Posts: 1,346
Re: Review of the J1 and V1 are up

Oh come on. This thing is an expensive dud. No average person is going to buy one of these for $800.00. Most people take pictures with a cell phone now that would be targeted by this. Nikon is in the dark ages with this thing.

Nikon hasn't made a decent P&S type camera since the Coolpic 990. One of the best cameras ever made.

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