Review of the J1 and V1 are up

Started Jan 20, 2012 | Discussions
Identity Senior Member • Posts: 1,065
Re: Too much talk of shortcomings and not enough of capabilities . . . balance is off

jack scholl wrote:

IMO Laing, Huff, Mansurovs, Hogan, Galbraith, Odell, and a couple other pro's provided much more balanced reviews.

Jack

I think that may be the issue - it seems that serious photographers enjoy the Nikon 1 cameras because they get near-DSLR performance in a compact package, and have no problem working around the firmware issues like the auto-ISO behavior.

But for people moving up from a P&S, I have to grudginly agree that the full auto settings on these cameras (which I never use) are not optimal and can lead to bad, blurry photos in many situations. I don't think it's unreasonable to count this as a major strike against the cameras - I wouldn't, but it's all a matter of perspective.

TEBnewyork
OP TEBnewyork Forum Pro • Posts: 11,337
Re: I don't get the 1 System at all

There are things the Nikon 1 system does very well and it really is a nice system to shoot. However, a firmware update would be very useful to solve a number of annoyances. The good news is firmware can solve a bunch here.

-- hide signature --
PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 14,067
Re: I don't get the 1 System at all

Telefoto wrote:

As a DSLR shooter who has not tried the 1, I am simply scratching my head over what Nikon is doing here at the beginning of the second decade of the 21st century. They had a rough 2011, I get that, but these market moves make no sense to me. A point and shoot camera that can't be easily shot manually, yet costing $800? A camera prone to blurry, low shutter speed images in indoor scenarios that probably account for 80% of all P&S picture taking globally? A camera with a much smaller sensor than the competition is supposed to attract educated shoppers in a well defined market segment? I had absolutely zero interest in the 1 when it was announced, and the more I learn about it, the more scared I am for Nikon's future. They apparently haven't noticed how fast the P&S market is being destroyed by smart phones?

Well, what I value as DSLR user in a compact is a) built in viewfinder b) fast AF-C and fps) c) good metal build. There is only one such camera - the Nikon V1.
--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

CriticalI Senior Member • Posts: 1,777
Richard, I think you did a fine job and the good news.....

...is that almost everything you criticised can be fixed in firmware.

In other words the basic physics and engineering are sound, the camera works, it just needs some fine tuning to make it more soccer-mum friendly and it's a real prospect.

I admit I seldom use auto ISO, I shoot primarily in A or S mode, and I use RAW and ACR, and I am very happy with my J1, but I totally get your point.

Of course a lot of fans here are more experienced photographers for whom the shortcomings are not such a big deal, so they probably major on the strengths, which are considerable.

R Butler wrote:

Identity wrote:

Richard, if Nikon did nothing but update the firmware to fix the auto-ISO behavior (prioritize shutter speed over low ISO, perhaps adding a minimum shutter speeds setting in auto-ISO mode), would that push the review score in to the 70-something percent range?

It's hard to predict what it would change the score to, but yes, that would significantly improve the rating.

Richard - dpreview.com

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Steve

PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 14,067
I agree...

Identity wrote:

jack scholl wrote:

IMO Laing, Huff, Mansurovs, Hogan, Galbraith, Odell, and a couple other pro's provided much more balanced reviews.

Jack

I think that may be the issue - it seems that serious photographers enjoy the Nikon 1 cameras because they get near-DSLR performance in a compact package, and have no problem working around the firmware issues like the auto-ISO behavior.

But for people moving up from a P&S, I have to grudginly agree that the full auto settings on these cameras (which I never use) are not optimal and can lead to bad, blurry photos in many situations. I don't think it's unreasonable to count this as a major strike against the cameras - I wouldn't, but it's all a matter of perspective.

...but giving the lowest rate of all mirrorless seems weird, considering your first paragraph.
--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

texviddy Regular Member • Posts: 123
Re: I don't get the 1 System at all

Fancy and expensive point & shoot at this time, but it's a base from which Nikon can build very good cameras in the future.

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thisisbenji Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: Too much talk of shortcomings and not enough of capabilities . . . balance is off

I own a J1, and I'v had it pretty much since it came out. The auto-ISO shutter speed issue is the one of two things that really lets this camera down. For myself having learned photography on a Canon AE-1 it's a non issue as I mostly shoot in shutter priority mode or manual with auto-ISO on. Yet, when I give the camera to my girlfriend she can't get it to take shots that don't have motion blur. No matter how many times I explain to her the idea of adjusting the shutter speed she just forgets to do it. With that being said it would be much easier to adjust your shooting behavior to work around this is the "F" button gave the option to switch PSAM modes instead of different burst modes. Honestly how many of you regular change your burst mode?

Red G8R
Red G8R Senior Member • Posts: 1,802
Thanks

Finally I can read a report that's not just drooling over this system. It will help me in my final decision on choosing a nice travel camera.
--
Peter
Ontario, Canada

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Identity Senior Member • Posts: 1,065
Re: I agree...

PerL wrote:

...but giving the lowest rate of all mirrorless seems weird, considering your first paragraph.
--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

I almost think the review needs 2 scores - one aimed at the P&S crowd (69%) and one aimed at enthusiasts looking for a compact alternative to a DSLR (80% - Just throwing a number out there!).

PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 14,067
Agree again (nt)

Identity wrote:

PerL wrote:

...but giving the lowest rate of all mirrorless seems weird, considering your first paragraph.
--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

I almost think the review needs 2 scores - one aimed at the P&S crowd (69%) and one aimed at enthusiasts looking for a compact alternative to a DSLR (80% - Just throwing a number out there!).

Peter G Veteran Member • Posts: 5,944
Same here, but I would love sensor in pocket compact.

Telefoto wrote:

As a DSLR shooter who has not tried the 1, I am simply scratching my head over what Nikon is doing here at the beginning of the second decade of the 21st century.

Same here, but this seems like an awesome sensor for a pocket, compact with a small built in retractable zoom.

gerryd04 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,123
Re: Too much talk of shortcomings and not enough of capabilities . . . balance is off

The current implementation has advantages also depending on subject and if moving or not. It would be a fairly simple fix in firmware, say 3 modes of auto iso, auto iso "still" with emphasis on lower iso and slower ss where vr can do its magic, auto iso "motion" for high iso and fast shutter, and regular/default which balances the two.

The ability to set the high/low limit for iso would be the icing on the cake for enthusiasts.

Identity wrote:

jack scholl wrote:

IMO Laing, Huff, Mansurovs, Hogan, Galbraith, Odell, and a couple other pro's provided much more balanced reviews.

Jack

I think that may be the issue - it seems that serious photographers enjoy the Nikon 1 cameras because they get near-DSLR performance in a compact package, and have no problem working around the firmware issues like the auto-ISO behavior.

But for people moving up from a P&S, I have to grudginly agree that the full auto settings on these cameras (which I never use) are not optimal and can lead to bad, blurry photos in many situations. I don't think it's unreasonable to count this as a major strike against the cameras - I wouldn't, but it's all a matter of perspective.

-- hide signature --

Gerry,
http://gerryd.smugmug.com/ discount code on homepage

'There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.' - Steven Wright

(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 14,097
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

R Butler wrote:

Millions of people will buy one, regardless of what we say

Especially "soccer moms," who are mentioned in the "Good for" section of the review.

"Soccer dads" may be too busy trying to figure out how to use a Kodak EasyShare camera.

joeyv Contributing Member • Posts: 587
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

Why do you say it is more expensive? A V1 with kit lens is cheaper than almost all of its competitors (except the Panasonic G3) when you factor in the additional cost of the EVF for the others.
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joeyv

AlbieSky Veteran Member • Posts: 3,338
@Telefoto

Telefoto wrote:

As a DSLR shooter who has not tried the 1, I am simply scratching my head over what Nikon is doing here at the beginning of the second decade of the 21st century. They had a rough 2011, I get that, but these market moves make no sense to me. A point and shoot camera that can't be easily shot manually, yet costing $800? A camera prone to blurry, low shutter speed images in indoor scenarios that probably account for 80% of all P&S picture taking globally? A camera with a much smaller sensor than the competition is supposed to attract educated shoppers in a well defined market segment? I had absolutely zero interest in the 1 when it was announced, and the more I learn about it, the more scared I am for Nikon's future. They apparently haven't noticed how fast the P&S market is being destroyed by smart phones?

You have it wrong. The VR of the N1 and the N1 lens are in a class to themselves. I can't handhold my D5100 and dx/fx VR lens as well as my J1.

If the shooter holds reasonably still and the subject poses, the N1 VR system is so much better than my D5100. My old 18-200 vr1 is better than any of my other DX/FX v2 lenses for some wonderful reason in VR, but I can not hand hold the d5100 with the 18-200v1 as well as my J1.

Millions will get better shots with the Nikon 1 system than with any P&S out there. If Nikon just puts into the firmware to max out ISO and SS in full auto mode, then you will see even more satisfactory shots.

So if those millions of 80% pictures taken in doors were with a N1 and the shooter and poser were reasonably still, then more of those pictures would be winners just on the VR ability. Once Nikon ups the SS in full auto, then there will be no competition.

There is no great way to judge VR between brands/cameras, but my J1 has better colors, skin tone, metering, VR, focus (in good light) than my D5100.

If the V1 had a regular shoe and could use the CLS, my D5100 would be gone.

You fear for Nikons future? I am waiting for them to put the Nikon 1 technology into a D800.
That would be awesome!

 AlbieSky's gear list:AlbieSky's gear list
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Ben Herrmann
Ben Herrmann Forum Pro • Posts: 20,701
Ahhhhh c'mon Norm.....

I know you're still a camera slut at heart and I just know you'll wind up picking up the OM-D (which BTW I bet that DPReview already has in their possession) when it becomes available.
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HappyVan Senior Member • Posts: 2,397
DPR has many reservations

But, that is normal for 1st Gen products.

V1 has rating of 69 and J1 67. Nex5 was 71. Pany GF1 was 69 and EPL1 69. Interestingly, GF3 71 points and EPL3 72 points. NEX5N has risen to 79 points.

So, it's up to Nikon to build on N1 strengths and address various issues.

Good Luck.

myzel Senior Member • Posts: 2,075
Re: I don't get the 1 System at all

Telefoto wrote:

… A point and shoot camera that can't be easily shot manually,…

Using manual mode with the V1 is very easy, almost easier than using a D90 (in my opinion).

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Nikon 1 V1 Nikon 1 Nikkor 18.5mm f/1.8 Nikon 1 Nikkor 32mm f/1.2 Nikon 1 Nikkor 10mm f/2.8
AlbieSky Veteran Member • Posts: 3,338
@Richard Dpreview

R Butler wrote:

topstuff wrote:

Here is my thinking..

DPR are guilty in my opinion of forgetting the needs of the purchaser. Lets not forget that the overwhelming majority of camera buyers have SIMPLE needs. They are NOT photo geeks. Yet, many will come to this site in search of guidance.

Actually, our concern is that the camera is likely to let down the camera buyer with simple needs. We tried to give credit for the AF system but in the point-and-shoot Auto modes, the camera makes some very odd shutter speed/ISO choices in anything less than good light.

AlbieSky's comment below nails it exactly:

"It's easy for us more experienced shooters, but not so easy for people like my wife."

The conclusion makes clear where the Nikon 1's strengths lie and, as we say, for some uses, it's the only game in town. But as a point-and-shoot mirrorless camera (and an expensive one at that) we believe it will let a lot of people down.

Millions of people will buy one, regardless of what we say but our responsibility to potential buyers is to give a balanced impression of what they're getting. I think the reviewers have done a good job of doing that.

Richard - dpreview.com

Lol. I didn't expect to be quoted. The review is logical/objective, but really does not do the camera justice. It is what I expected dpreview to say, but I too disagree with the review conclusion.

Your final sentence should be.

When in poor light the Nikon can fail like other cameras, but in good light there is no small sensor camera that can compete with a Nikon 1.

You gave the Canon S90 a 75%. My S90 now sits collecting dust. The J1 is a quantum leap above a S90.

 AlbieSky's gear list:AlbieSky's gear list
Nikon 1 J1 Nikon 1 V2 Fujifilm X-T1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR +10 more
HappyVan Senior Member • Posts: 2,397
DPR fair comment

topstuff wrote:

Here is my thinking..

DPR have not given sufficient weight to the single most important element of why people buy a new camera..

IMO, the DPR conclusion is fair enough.

It may be disappointing to those of us who respect the strengths of N1. But, N1 1st Gen has done its job.

It has changed the face of the industry. It has met Nikons sales targets.

Its now up to Nikon to put out a 2nd Gen that would truly knock our socks off.

Meanwhile, thank you to Nikon.

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