Review of the J1 and V1 are up

Started Jan 20, 2012 | Discussions
TEBnewyork
TEBnewyork Forum Pro • Posts: 11,337
Review of the J1 and V1 are up

Haven't made it through the whole review but the conclusion seems very fair

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/

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Nikon 1 J1 Nikon 1 V1
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nboyer Veteran Member • Posts: 5,130
Re: Fair Conclusion...

While I would agree that the conclusion is fair, I would not say that overall it would lead someone to say, "I really got to have one." I bought it the day that I became available and paid FULL price. This far, I've had some mixed emotions. Aside from being a Leica and m43 shooter, I decided to buy the entire Nikon 1 V1 kit as my curiosity was piqued. I currently favor shooting my V1 with the Voigtlander 40/2 SLII lens. The results are very nice printed to 16x20. While not as crisp as prints from my Sony A65 (no surprise given 10MP vs. 24MP), there is a certain intangible look from the V1 that I really like. The white balance and skin tones are very natural. Surprisingly, ISO800 looks remarkably good (LR3 conversion). The real tipping point for me on which system to eventually sell off (m43 or Nikon 1) will be how good the OM-D turns out to be. Cheers. -Norm

TEBnewyork wrote:

Haven't made it through the whole review but the conclusion seems very fair

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/

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JasonED Contributing Member • Posts: 946
Re: Review of the J1 and V1 are up

The review seems rather hung up on the Auto ISO implementation of favouring lower shutter speeds in higher ISO settings. While I agree the Auto ISO should be far more configurable, and may not be 'novice friendly' it is also clear looking in this forum that a great many people can take slow shutter speed high ISO pictures that are entirely sharp thanks to the very capable in lens VR.

The sky is blue and there is nothing we can do..

AlbieSky Veteran Member • Posts: 3,338
Re: Review of the J1 and V1 are up

No surprises from the review.

Only one thing that Nikon failed on for the intended target, slow SS relative to available ISO.

Increase SS when on full auto to reduce blur for the soccer moms, or football moms in my wife's case.

It's easy for us more experienced shooters, but not so easy for people like my wife.

 AlbieSky's gear list:AlbieSky's gear list
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topstuff Senior Member • Posts: 1,209
I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

Here is my thinking..

DPR have not given sufficient weight to the single most important element of why people buy a new camera..

DPR said :

"If you want to shoot moving subjects in good light with a small (ish) camera then the J1 and V1 really are the only game in town"

MILLIONS of people buy a new camera with EXACTLY these requirements ! People buy cameras because they are going on holiday or having kids and they want to capture the moment.

If the Nikon 1 cameras " really are the only game in town" then the DPR overall score should be weighted to reflect this.

I own a NEX5N. The AF and exposure accuracy out of the camera sucks compared to the Nikon. The Nikon V1 is clearly superior in this respect.

Yet, if you look at the scores, many potential buyers will reject the Nikon and get the Sony simply because of the scoring. This would be a mistake for the MILLIONS of people who specifically want a camera to shoot moving objects in good light - in other words kids and family while on holiday...

DPR are guilty in my opinion of forgetting the needs of the purchaser. Lets not forget that the overwhelming majority of camera buyers have SIMPLE needs. They are NOT photo geeks. Yet, many will come to this site in search of guidance.

The overall scores of the DPR review are skewed incorrectly in my opinion for this simple reason.

In the REAL world of casual photographers, the things the Nikon 1 does well trump the more esoteric things that DPR have given too much weight to.

You screwed up , guys.

And that's coming from a NEX user !!

sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 9,334
I don't think they got it.

I hoped they could think outside the box a bit, but I guess not. That abysmal score will kill thousandth of sales. They rated it lower than PS for goodness sake.

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Andrewteee Veteran Member • Posts: 3,012
Re: Fair Conclusion...

nboyer wrote:

The real tipping point for me on which system to eventually sell off (m43 or Nikon 1) will be how good the OM-D turns out to be.

In the review they claim that the Nikon 1 IQ is essentially the same as M43s. I have both and across the various factors it's a wash. The point being that the larger M43 sensor should have room for improvement. I would hope that the OM-D is a step forward. I'm also very curious to see what that camera turns out to be.

If the weather-sealing rumor is true, paired with the weather sealed 12-50mm lens it could be a fantastic combination. I do indeed shoot in the rain at times (Olympus E5) and would appreciate a smaller weather sealed kit.

In the meantime I'm really enjoying the V1!

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Identity Senior Member • Posts: 1,065
Re: Fair Conclusion...

Hmmm... the review seems fair, but the reviewer does not seem very enthusiastic about the cameras.

If you're anything like me and like to shoot family snapshots, in all sorts of conditions, often with moving subjects, then the V1 is just fantastic. The incredibly fast AF and general operation, excellent VR, sharp, compact lenses and superb metering all combine such that I almost never miss a shot! I can't ask for more from a camera than that, and I suspect a ton of enthusiastic family photographers who don't want to carry a DSLR around would love these cameras.

I'd have given the camera a higher score, although I do think the high price is a real barrier to entry for the target market.

TOR8472 Senior Member • Posts: 1,616
Re: I don't think they got it.

I agree about the low score killing certain sales, but on a positive note, hopefully the review comments will encourage Nikon to fix some of the easily fixable (maybe even in firmware) minor issues in the next model so that I will want to buy one. I assume it was DPR who got Nikon to increase functionality for AutoISO in the D4. I thought Nikon's implementation was the best even before the advances in the D4, but now it is even better and I wonder if DPR helped make that happen.

sandy b wrote:

I hoped they could think outside the box a bit, but I guess not. That abysmal score will kill thousandth of sales. They rated it lower than PS for goodness sake.

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Richard Butler
Richard Butler dpreview Admin • Posts: 2,665
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

topstuff wrote:

Here is my thinking..

DPR are guilty in my opinion of forgetting the needs of the purchaser. Lets not forget that the overwhelming majority of camera buyers have SIMPLE needs. They are NOT photo geeks. Yet, many will come to this site in search of guidance.

Actually, our concern is that the camera is likely to let down the camera buyer with simple needs. We tried to give credit for the AF system but in the point-and-shoot Auto modes, the camera makes some very odd shutter speed/ISO choices in anything less than good light.

AlbieSky's comment below nails it exactly:

"It's easy for us more experienced shooters, but not so easy for people like my wife."

The conclusion makes clear where the Nikon 1's strengths lie and, as we say, for some uses, it's the only game in town. But as a point-and-shoot mirrorless camera (and an expensive one at that) we believe it will let a lot of people down.

Millions of people will buy one, regardless of what we say but our responsibility to potential buyers is to give a balanced impression of what they're getting. I think the reviewers have done a good job of doing that.

Richard - dpreview.com

SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 5,216
PDAF vs CDAF

I was surprised by how quickly the CDAF kicked in outdoors at the long end of the zoom at f5.6 vs the 10mm prime at f2.8 (see Performance Page). Indoors the 10-30mm looks to be mainly a CDAF camera and not a very fast one according to the Performance page.

I was waiting for the faster lenses for better low light IQ results, but it looks like the fast lenses will greatly benefit the availability of PDAF as well. Hopefully Nikon will start releasing them in the coming months.

TEBnewyork wrote:

Haven't made it through the whole review but the conclusion seems very fair

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/

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teinszo Regular Member • Posts: 225
Re: I don't think they got it.

sandy b wrote:

I hoped they could think outside the box a bit, but I guess not. That abysmal score will kill thousandth of sales. They rated it lower than PS for goodness sake.

You may be giving dpreview more credit than they deserve as far as their review's influence on sales.

smallcams Veteran Member • Posts: 3,297
I don't care about these scores...

or what they say, but they should hire a creative person to take more interesting sample photographs for ALL their camera reviews?

Identity Senior Member • Posts: 1,065
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

R Butler wrote:

topstuff wrote:

Here is my thinking..

DPR are guilty in my opinion of forgetting the needs of the purchaser. Lets not forget that the overwhelming majority of camera buyers have SIMPLE needs. They are NOT photo geeks. Yet, many will come to this site in search of guidance.

Actually, our concern is that the camera is likely to let down the camera buyer with simple needs. We tried to give credit for the AF system but in the point-and-shoot Auto modes, the camera makes some very odd shutter speed/ISO choices in anything less than good light.

AlbieSky's comment below nails it exactly:

"It's easy for us more experienced shooters, but not so easy for people like my wife."

The conclusion makes clear where the Nikon 1's strengths lie and, as we say, for some uses, it's the only game in town. But as a point-and-shoot mirrorless camera (and an expensive one at that) we believe it will let a lot of people down.

Millions of people will buy one, regardless of what we say but our responsibility to potential buyers is to give a balanced impression of what they're getting. I think the reviewers have done a good job of doing that.

Richard - dpreview.com

On second thought, I realize just how big an issue the auto-ISO behavior is for the more casual photographer crowd. My wife doesn't use my V1 because she often gets blurry shots indoors, and I've tried to explain that she needs to use S mode or set the ISO manually, but those are technical details she just isn't interested in dealing with.

Richard, if Nikon did nothing but update the firmware to fix the auto-ISO behavior (prioritize shutter speed over low ISO, perhaps adding a minimum shutter speeds setting in auto-ISO mode), would that push the review score in to the 70-something percent range?

hifiducati Forum Member • Posts: 52
Re: Review of the J1 and V1 are up

The one point that I think was missed in the review was the lack of a standard Nikon hotshoe. I was really looking forward to the mirrorless Nikon so that I could use my SB-800 or the smaller SB-400 on a small body. The P series coolpix cameras has the same hotshoe as their (D)SLR cameras. For me, one of the main reasons that I did not purchase the J1 or V1 was the lack of flash compatibility. Also, the choice of a small sensor didn't make sense to me other than to protect their DX DSLR sales.

Overall, I'm disappointed in the Nikon mirrorless camera. I think Nikon could have done MUCH better. I've used Nikon cameras for years and have built up a pretty good collection of lenses and flashes. I waited for the Nikon mirrorless system, but after I read the specs and features of the J1 and V1, I purchased a used GF1 with lenses, flash & EVF and I am very happy with it.

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Richard Butler
Richard Butler dpreview Admin • Posts: 2,665
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

Identity wrote:

Richard, if Nikon did nothing but update the firmware to fix the auto-ISO behavior (prioritize shutter speed over low ISO, perhaps adding a minimum shutter speeds setting in auto-ISO mode), would that push the review score in to the 70-something percent range?

It's hard to predict what it would change the score to, but yes, that would significantly improve the rating.

Richard - dpreview.com

Telefoto Regular Member • Posts: 295
I don't get the 1 System at all

As a DSLR shooter who has not tried the 1, I am simply scratching my head over what Nikon is doing here at the beginning of the second decade of the 21st century. They had a rough 2011, I get that, but these market moves make no sense to me. A point and shoot camera that can't be easily shot manually, yet costing $800? A camera prone to blurry, low shutter speed images in indoor scenarios that probably account for 80% of all P&S picture taking globally? A camera with a much smaller sensor than the competition is supposed to attract educated shoppers in a well defined market segment? I had absolutely zero interest in the 1 when it was announced, and the more I learn about it, the more scared I am for Nikon's future. They apparently haven't noticed how fast the P&S market is being destroyed by smart phones?

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Andrewteee Veteran Member • Posts: 3,012
Re: Fair Conclusion...

Identity wrote:

If you're anything like me and like to shoot family snapshots, in all sorts of conditions, often with moving subjects, then the V1 is just fantastic. The incredibly fast AF and general operation, excellent VR, sharp, compact lenses and superb metering all combine such that I almost never miss a shot! I can't ask for more from a camera than that, and I suspect a ton of enthusiastic family photographers who don't want to carry a DSLR around would love these cameras.

That's precisely why I bought it! It's fantastic I have other, more serious compacts for more serious photographic pursuits, but the V1 will be my main family (and travel) camera.

 Andrewteee's gear list:Andrewteee's gear list
Ricoh GR II Leica Q Ricoh GR III Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 Panasonic Leica 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 ASPH
Identity Senior Member • Posts: 1,065
Re: I don't agree - I think DPR messed up

R Butler wrote:

Identity wrote:

Richard, if Nikon did nothing but update the firmware to fix the auto-ISO behavior (prioritize shutter speed over low ISO, perhaps adding a minimum shutter speeds setting in auto-ISO mode), would that push the review score in to the 70-something percent range?

It's hard to predict what it would change the score to, but yes, that would significantly improve the rating.

Richard - dpreview.com

Fair enough. Let's hope Nikon is listening - yours certainly isn't the only review that has criticized the auto-ISO behavior, although it's perhaps weighed more heavily in your final conclusion than some other reviews.

jack scholl
jack scholl Veteran Member • Posts: 4,218
Too much talk of shortcomings and not enough of capabilities . . . balance is off.

First reaction after a quick read . . .
1. I agree with all the shortcomings regarding modes, firmware, etc, etc

2. Way too much emphasis on what they don't do well and way too little on their current capabilities (and no discussion of the future potential of such a clear superior AF system). We have had both the NEX 5N and 7 and returned them. Neither could have captured the sequence in this post.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1058&message=40369240

3. No discussion on the size/weight advantage of the body/lens combo. Take a look at any 300mm kit and compare it to the V1/30-110. Not even close. We don't take pics with bodies . . .
4. We have seen no penalty in using the FT1 with our D7000 lenses.

The Nikon 1 is clearly a first release. But the fact that "for some uses, it's the only game in town" has been relegated to a footnote in an evaluation of the value of the camera.

IMO Laing, Huff, Mansurovs, Hogan, Galbraith, Odell, and a couple other pro's provided much more balanced reviews.

Jack

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