D800 AA filter

Started Jan 19, 2012 | Discussions
mhammon Regular Member • Posts: 202
D800 AA filter

OK, I'm going to ask a very new guy question. As I understand it, the AA filter assists in reducing moire and MAYBE some chromatic aberration. http://www.photography.com/articles/digital-photography/aliasing-antialiasing/ That seems like a good thing to me.

So why would one want to shoot with a D800 without the AA filter?

Thanks,
Mike

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Nikon D800
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Chaz f64 Regular Member • Posts: 246
Re: D800 AA filter

An AA filter steals "apparent sharpness" from a scene thus forcing one or more sharpening techniques in pp to render the shot really crisp looking.

This is a big deal for landscape shooters who often must contend with much tiny detail in a scene (leaves, foliage, etc.)

The lack of an AA filter will make their shooting experience much easier, especially if they print large and want maximum resolution for the viewer.

rayman 2 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,228
Re: D800 AA filter

The more Mp a camera has the more it actually resolves anything that

can look like moire.. in MF they use the raw converter to remove some of the problems.

M Lammerse
M Lammerse Forum Pro • Posts: 11,426
Re: D800 AA filter

Indeed indeed,

And in the new camera without the optional AA filter it will be taken care of partly by an other sensor data processing technique in-camera..hence the higher price.

Michel

rayman 2 wrote:

The more Mp a camera has the more it actually resolves anything that

can look like moire.. in MF they use the raw converter to remove some of the problems.

GAK753 Contributing Member • Posts: 872
Re: D800: AA filter or not?????

I shoot just a few different things: landscapes, wildlife, weddings, and studio work. Which camera do you think I should buy? The d800 w/ the AA filter or without? I will have most of the money for the filter version if it IS 3900. ANd I already have enough saved for the other if it's 3000. Opinions?
--
GG

mattr Veteran Member • Posts: 3,530
Re: D800 AA filter

M Lammerse wrote:

And in the new camera without the optional AA filter it will be taken care of partly by an other sensor data processing technique in-camera..hence the higher price.

Interesting. How do you know that?

kuri Regular Member • Posts: 213
Re: D800 AA filter

An AA filter is also called a "blur filter" (wikipedia)

In a nutshell, it slightly blurs the detail in the entire picture. I'm a landscape shooter and I hate the idea of AA filters and have rarely, if ever, encountered moire in a natural setting.

mhammon wrote:

OK, I'm going to ask a very new guy question. As I understand it, the AA filter assists in reducing moire and MAYBE some chromatic aberration. http://www.photography.com/articles/digital-photography/aliasing-antialiasing/ That seems like a good thing to me.

So why would one want to shoot with a D800 without the AA filter?

Thanks,
Mike

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,348
Re: D800 AA filter

According to this:

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Digital_Imaging/Moire_01.htm

Moire is only a problem if the repetitive detail in the image exceeds the resolution of the camera.

Since the D800 is allegedly 36MP, can we assume Moire should be less of an issue in any case, even without the AA filter?

Randy Stephens Regular Member • Posts: 103
Re: D800 AA filter

Would a camera without the AA filter be a good option for a bird photographer or would the repeating similar feathers create a problem. I have been looking forward for Nikon to introduce the D800 and would use it in crop mode for bird photography but have no idea which version to purchase. I like the idea of increased sharpness without the AA filter but would hate to buy a $4000 white elephant.
--
Randy

Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 24,708
Re: D800 AA filter

And in the new camera without the optional AA filter it will be taken care of partly by an other sensor data processing technique in-camera..hence the higher price.

If the camera is without AA filter they charge more for software that takes the resolution off? Michel, no.

-- hide signature --
(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,348
Re: D800 AA filter

As my mother would say as Christmas neared.."you'll have to wait and see!"

If I understand what I have read, moire becomes less of an issue as resolution increases but what the practical effects of that are in the real, non-pixel peeping, look at the corner sharpness under a 2000% magnification world are we will have to wait and see I suppose.

Randy Stephens wrote:

Would a camera without the AA filter be a good option for a bird photographer or would the repeating similar feathers create a problem. I have been looking forward for Nikon to introduce the D800 and would use it in crop mode for bird photography but have no idea which version to purchase. I like the idea of increased sharpness without the AA filter but would hate to buy a $4000 white elephant.
--
Randy

Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: D800 AA filter

Randy Stephens wrote:

Would a camera without the AA filter be a good option for a bird photographer or would the repeating similar feathers create a problem. I have been looking forward for Nikon to introduce the D800 and would use it in crop mode for bird photography but have no idea which version to purchase. I like the idea of increased sharpness without the AA filter but would hate to buy a $4000 white elephant.

Yes, feathers could generate moire if the lines in a feather were the right scale and of sufficient contrast. I wouldn't expect it in all cases. Probably be wise to wait to see what happens when the D800 comes out.

White elephants should be fine without the AA, unless they are striped.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

coudet Veteran Member • Posts: 4,059
Re: D800 AA filter

mhammon wrote:

(AA filter) That seems like a good thing to me.

Sure is.

So why would one want to shoot with a D800 without the AA filter?

Some people love aliasing. They love that unnatural look, the more artifacts the better, though they refer to it as 'crispness'. Weird, right?

Daniel Villiers Regular Member • Posts: 169
Re: D800 AA filter

It is extraordinary how people are. 3 years ago we got the 24 megapixel d3x which was hailed as having extraordinary resolution. Now we have a 36 megapixel camera and now people are making as if it is a lame duck. The aa less d800 will have higher resolution but the normal d800 also will be the highest resolution full frame camera that has ever existed with an AA filter, which means everyone until now and by a big margin.

-- hide signature --

Alalalala when are they going to see the light.

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Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: D800 AA filter

coudet wrote:

They love that unnatural look, the more artifacts the better...

I think you mean the moire the better...
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,348
Re: D800 AA filter

We forget very quickly how things progress, you are right.

In my photographic lifetime, the two top cameras for consumer SLR users when I began were the newly released Pentax ME Super and the Canon AE1.

No AF, 1000/sec top shutter, no winder (unless you added one), Program and Aperture priority only.

Now we gnash our teeth if the LCD chimping screen has less pixels than a 50" TV....!

Heck, when I left Uni in 1990 and started real work, we had no mobile phones, no computers on our desks, had never heard of the internet or email and had secretaries to do our typing - a mere 22 years ago!!

Daniel Villiers wrote:

It is extraordinary how people are. 3 years ago we got the 24 megapixel d3x which was hailed as having extraordinary resolution. Now we have a 36 megapixel camera and now people are making as if it is a lame duck. The aa less d800 will have higher resolution but the normal d800 also will be the highest resolution full frame camera that has ever existed with an AA filter, which means everyone until now and by a big margin.

apaflo Veteran Member • Posts: 3,854
Re: D800 AA filter

Robin Casady wrote:

coudet wrote:

They love that unnatural look, the more artifacts the better...

I think you mean the moire the better...

Moire is just the most visible artifact created by aliasing.

Some folks are admiring "crisp detail"... that didn't exist in the original scene!

M Lammerse
M Lammerse Forum Pro • Posts: 11,426
Re: D800 AA filter

Hi Illah,

If I understood it correctly, the in-camera processing of sensor data is different from that with AA filter, that makes the cost difference I will ask coming Sunday again, but i'm afraid answer will be similar again

Michel

Iliah Borg wrote:

And in the new camera without the optional AA filter it will be taken care of partly by an other sensor data processing technique in-camera..hence the higher price.

If the camera is without AA filter they charge more for software that takes the resolution off? Michel, no.

M Lammerse
M Lammerse Forum Pro • Posts: 11,426
Re: D800 AA filter

I don't know it, it was me told

Keep in mind that I translated it, this is best what I could make out of it what was meant

Michel

mattr wrote:

M Lammerse wrote:

And in the new camera without the optional AA filter it will be taken care of partly by an other sensor data processing technique in-camera..hence the higher price.

Interesting. How do you know that?

closeupfanatic Senior Member • Posts: 1,184
caution re AA filter removal

Chaz f64 wrote:

An AA filter steals "apparent sharpness" from a scene thus forcing one or more sharpening techniques in pp to render the shot really crisp looking.

Low quality AA filters do. But Nikon uses lithium niobate that has virtually ideal performance - see my tests of the D700 AA at http://johnsankey.ca/diffraction.html

Most of the "apparent sharpness" with AA removed is in fact colour aliasing artifacts, not real detail.

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