Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

Started Jan 7, 2012 | Discussions
schaki Senior Member • Posts: 2,306
Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

I don't know who but clearly some biased fanboy didn't like that truths about how badly out of warranty repairs sometimes are being fumbled or fooled up, too often, reached the daylight and simply requested a cover up by the admins by complain about that other old thread which now have been swept away completely in a dirty way to desperately hide unwanted publicity about what is going on.

I don't really care who it was which was behind that recent cover up even though I have some which I suspect to be guilty of that. Some of them acted more politically correct than others. Now that is not what this thread is going to be about as I don't care enough to find out who.

In this thread we are going to share our experiences with that Convar service regarding our out of warranty repairs I don't find the need to discuss within warranty-repairs as these almost always seems to go well unlike these which are out of warranty which is the problem.

I bought a Ricoh 400G wide as used to mainly use it for simple-underwater pictures but got the hang of some other features which I didn't know about when I first bought it. A good copy of that camera is very silent overall. Everything, from button-click, zoom, focus-noise, shutter and it handles quite nicely which makes long exposures quite usable occasionally. The image quality is merely ok but can also be very useful if it is handled the correct way.

What I found was a great camera for stealth and silent snapping without disturb or getting in the way of people. Almost like some kind of digital black Konica Hexar AF with stealthmode enabled. I've not used that camera myself so I don't know exactly what it is like but have read quite a lot about it, user opinions and thread about it, mostly at Rangefinderforum, So at least I've got a good idea about what it is like. Probably only the bulky big size could bother me enough not to buy a used one if I ever decide to use film again.

Whenever my 400G wide had been fatally damaged by mist I didn't hesitate very long to find another one, especially not after having tried out its successors which none of them quite managed to live up to the same silent operation. The 500G/SE got closest but have a noisy AF, at least my copy and are definitely bulkier. For me the 400G was the perfect combination of bulk, image quality and features which made good sense to me. No wonder that I wanted to have another one in capable condition work with..

And that was the problem and still is Another problem is that it is not easy to find as used even on ebay as it is very a unusual model which probably not sold way too well as it is quite niched, aimed for industries and construction sites. I can only guess that they've got stuck in work there or quite some time. Probably until that dreaded Sony 3mp ccd goes totally crazy or the camera faces some other death so that them have to look for a new replacement.

While I had almost zero ccd problem with my first 400G I wasn't that lucky with the next used one which I bought.

As can be seen it already suffered badly enough with not only mad vertical banding in images with strong daylight or sun. It could also randomly produce all pitch black frames when the light was strong although not quite as strong as in these pictures.

And that with a Panasonic SD 2gb class 6 memory card which worked flawlessly in my first 400G. Both flashed with the latest firmware to be found.

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OP schaki Senior Member • Posts: 2,306
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

This is what it first was like when I sent it in with the silver-ring removed whcih can be seen in the fifth picture. That is my 500SE though, an image I took when I made that slight modification

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OP schaki Senior Member • Posts: 2,306
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

So with that repair them replaced both the lens and ccd although only the ccd needed to be replaced. What I got what was a bad copy of that lens. So bad that you won't believe it without pictures the last remaining sample images with that lens. Unbelievably soft seemingly out towards every edge, not just in the corners and another useless ccd for bright daylight...

Again I sent the camera in for another repair. With the four sample images above, mentioned the the bad ccd and the. While them for once.. got real about the ccd issue and replaced it only. I was still left with that joke of lens! I asked him over the phone if them even had had a real look at it and the answer I got was that it was within the tolerance of bad sample variation... I almost thought he joked.. But he wasn't and the camera was sent back to me despite my protest against it and I got stuck badly plssed. At least I got a good ccd for once but stuck left with a every bad copy of that zoom.

After having paid 119 euro for a small repair for what would have been fixed on goodwill, I had every right to at least get it done properly and also a good copy of that lens. Yet after several attempts they've so far failed quite badly to do so.

I could bother myself with a last gasp attempt as there are just a few days whcih remain until the repair-warranty from mid of january 2011 expires.
But no no, I'll not bother myself with that.

What I'll do now is to find a G4 wide in an attempt to find a good copy of that lens which I can use with the 400G. It is easy enough to replace even for a non technician like me. I already have a good ccd after all so that part should not be a problem.

So was that all of my problems with that repair-service? Actually not... I bought a used Ricoh 500SE to replace my first 400G when it malfunctioned. It came with a GPS and that small detachable door for USB and gps connection missing. I thought I better get a new detachable door so that I could use it comfortably underwater even though my temporarily solution worked rather well. Over the phone I was told that a detachable door would be fitted yet I got a non detachable such... I also requested pixelmapping which them refused to to as hot pixels only showed up in pictures with like 1 sec exposures. Three or four weeks later after that the camera had been returned to me it suddenly developed its first hot pixel, a green which is almost in the middle of the pictures at slow exposures down towards something like 1/30 or slower.

At this stage I know way too well what that service is up to as well as several other persons have had bad experiences with that repair-service.

I wonder if they are going to be as "brave" as me and dare to take the battle ,share their experiences in front of blind fanboys which just have reported the previous thread I posted in and got their cover up as them so badly as well as desperately wanted.

I remember that Sunskisurf had enough problem , got the lens on his GRDI scratched while it was in for an other repair regarding the ADJ-wheel.

At least the service took care of their mess that time, but not until he had received some needed help to get it sorted out and then also got a small compensation.

Then there was some other guy with the first Ricoh Caplio GX 5mp which he sent in for service to map out a blue or green hot pixel which was stuck on the left side in his images. The camera was returned with that pixel mapped out but instead he got a pink pixel stuck in just about the middle of the pictures.. and also camera had been put together again very badly and some part had been bent slightly from what I remember from pictures that he showed in that thread which now is gone.

There was also one or two other users in that thread with small problems that I not remember as I have not read it for quite a while.

Next time,i you have my word, I'll post this in the news section so that everyone can see it, would this thread also end up in the trash-bin because some fanboy have complained about it. I'm quite sure that potential buyers of GRD, CX and GXR would like to know what eventual out of warranty repairs after the two-year warranty might end up like if luck is not on their side.
So, now we'll see for how many weeks this thread is allowed to stay up.

I came here seeking justice. But also to share my experiences, not only for myself but also for others which have suffered, the justice I now know that the Convar service have no genuine interest to provide me with.

So, well deserved this publicity is my thank you to them for extremely bad service which have wasted my time, money and also patience, waiting for them more than long enough to clean up this mess but in the end for nothing but bullshlt in return almost each time I've tried to get it fixed.

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PentaxNick Senior Member • Posts: 1,341
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

In this thread we are going to share our experiences with that Convar service regarding our out of warranty repairs I don't find the need to discuss within warranty-repairs as these almost always seems to go well unlike these which are out of warranty which is the problem.

This would be a useful discussion as you state of you hadn't prejudiced it with your choice of title.

I've had two excellent experiences with Convar with out of warranty repairs, one for a cracked screen and one for the ASK control failure. Both repairs were handled very professionally at a very reasonable cost. So no complaints, only praise from me.

Nick

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VladimirV Senior Member • Posts: 2,659
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

Another thread?
What was wrong with posting in the last thread?

Was it that there most people disagreed with your reasoning for complaining about the repair of a 8 year old camera which was out of warranty and production and that you modified?

The Convar service might not always be perfect but I never had problems with it, either in or out of warranty.

So yes, thanks for doing something good for the community to warn people not to send in 8 year old cameras for repair, especially not after they modified them themselves.

OP schaki Senior Member • Posts: 2,306
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

VladimirV wrote:

Another thread?
What was wrong with posting in the last thread?

Nothing else than that some fanboy didn't like it, complained about the thread to moderator which removed it completely.

Was it that there most people disagreed with your reasoning for complaining about the repair of a 8 year old camera which was out of warranty and production and that you modified?

I had no major problem with my reasoning since it was valid.

The fanboys on the other hand, seemed to have a problem with that discussion and then one of them complained to the admins so that them promptly removed that thread altogether. Only for just about two weeks back or less, that other thread could easily be found by just search for the word "beware" in the Ricoh-section here in the forum. Now that thread is just completely gone as I've already said.

The posts have been removed and I can not even find my very own most recent posts from that thread.

Here comes a link to the list with all my recent posts in Ricoh-talk http://www.dpreview.com/members/5029999967/forums/messages?forum=1013

As you see, unfortunately it have been removed and I was frustrated when I noticed that for like three or four days ago. While eyeing through my posts there you might find my short Ricoh G700 user-review which might be of interest if you not already have read it I managed to find rather some cons, not all of them very serious and Ricoh might even be able to solve some of them if they've enough interest.

It is definitely just about as good as the best cameras in the waterproof group test from this year as long as image quality are concerned. Eventually I found that it is the grey-looking noise which gets in the way for the image quality to really shine and sometimes also smudging of detail to some not too serious extent, which otherwise would have been pretty good. I would say that it is somewhere between CX4 and CX5 regarding NR. The CX4 easily the better of those two imho as it seems to have at least marginally lower NR than the CX5 from reviews and samples that I've seen. Only real edge that the CX5 might have is the re-introduced PD AF but according to Pavel's test it wasn't a big improvement.

The Convar service might not always be perfect but I never had problems with it, either in or out of warranty.

Good for you. But it is not everyone else which enjoy that kind of luck, unfortunately. Not speaking only from myself either.

So yes, thanks for doing something good for the community to warn people not to send in 8 year old cameras for repair, especially not after they modified them themselves.

You know what? I already told you like it is in that previous thread - Why would the convar service even try to repair such an old device unless they were confident enough about being able of doing so successfully? It would be very easy for them to just say a simply but friendly "no" if them felt that them might have a problem to service it. My own not extremely widespread experience with the 400G is that it is rather easy to work with. Replace the lens assembly or the sensor alone is a none issue for a technician when even I managed to do it quite early when I tried to solve the problem on my own. The problem was just that the G4 wide which i bought for spareparts already had bad ccd in it. So my work was effectively undone even though the camera focused correct and also worked as it should in general with exception for the bad ccd.

Hence I chose to send it in for a repair and paid to get it fixed. Unfortunately I got quite some unneeded mess to try and take care about in return as that convar service failed to do their job correctly. despite 2 or 3 attempts if I've counted it correctly since the first repair in January which I paid for.

Now when I've explained this for you for like the third time in total , maybe that's enough

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Jim King
Jim King Veteran Member • Posts: 8,416
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

I think that many, if not most, of the participants in that thread found your arguments unpersuasive and unnecessarily argumentative, It's one thing to make you point; another to continue restating it over and over like a broken record. That's crossing the line from discussion into bashing, and warrants having the thread killed, or even banning if it continues.

Enough, already!
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Pentaxian for over 50 years.

* * * * *
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

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rondom Senior Member • Posts: 2,891
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

Jim King wrote:

It's one thing to make you point; another to continue restating it over and over like a broken record.

İ agree with that, but that would be true for 99% of all posts in this forum.

rondom Senior Member • Posts: 2,891
I don't think it is the fanboys

I think it may have been ricoh people requesting it. I was told that they do follow this forum on regular basis. Even though this forum doesn't generate nearly as much traffic as others, they probably wouldn't want it remain here....

By the way, I think the dpreview people have to offer an explanation for this. Even though I disagree with the premise of this thread, I don't think it should have been censored.

I see no difference between fanboys and haters of a certain brand. Equally idiotic, and has nothing to do with photography.

Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 18,109
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

schaki wrote:

And that was the problem and still is Another problem is that it is not easy to find as used even on ebay as it is very a unusual model

There are two on Ebay right now, in the range of $70 - $80 on buy it now.

Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 18,109
There are two on Ebay right now

Messed up my edit - I wanted to change the subject as well in my prior message.

Midwest wrote:

schaki wrote:

And that was the problem and still is Another problem is that it is not easy to find as used even on ebay as it is very a unusual model

There are two on Ebay right now, in the range of $70 - $80 on buy it now.

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'Bass-ackward' does not equate to 'superior'.

OP schaki Senior Member • Posts: 2,306
Re: I don't think it is the fanboys

rondom wrote:

I think it may have been ricoh people requesting it. I was told that they do follow this forum on regular basis. Even though this forum doesn't generate nearly as much traffic as others, they probably wouldn't want it remain here....

Yes it might be after all. Even though I doubt that we ever will find it for sure if it was the Ricoh people or fanboys which probably asked to have that thread and the information it contained to be removed.

By the way, I think the dpreview people have to offer an explanation for this. Even though I disagree with the premise of this thread, I don't think it should have been censored.

Of course it should not.

I see no difference between fanboys and haters of a certain brand. Equally idiotic, and has nothing to do with photography.

Luckily I don't belong to any of those two groups. I don't hate or dislike Ricoh as a company. Rather the opposite as I've found not all but some of their cameras to fit my preferences very well.

But I've lost not all but quite much of my respect for that Convar service which Ricoh probably pay so that Convar is going to repair and service Ricoh-branded devices. I find it almost impossibly to think that the Ricoh management in Japan know about how out of warranty repairs sometimes are being fumbled quite well or screwed up somehow here in Europe. If them knew about it, Them clearly should have taken action at this point as it seems to have been going on at least since in 2007 (or was it 2008 or 2009 that thread was started?) when sunskisurf and some others began to share their experiences.

But at the end of the day I simply let my preferences decide what camera to get my interest and probably try it out to see if I click with it or not.

At the moment I'm looking at some old Kyocera/Contax SL300R. Having dismissed the upgraded SL400R with 4mp instead of 3mp as ccd in the SL400R seems to another bad ccd which is about to go crazy as the one in 400G and some other Ricohs.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1170700724.html

Luckily it came to my knowledge before I even had decided to try one of these two cameras. So I just decided not bother myself with the possibly troublesome SL400R and put a bid on one of these SL300R which sometimes show up on ebay.

From the limited number of full size image samples I've seen from these two, them seems to have nearly identical or at least very equal image quality when it comes to NR with just the number of pixels as the major difference.

From user-reviews and the very few real reviews I've found it seems to be rather fast in operation like some of the old-school Ricohs with startup as exception as it takes about 3-4 secs. But that alone is not going to be a dealbreaker.

The reason that I began to take a closer look at these two cameras and initially also the Contax U4R which essentially seems to be a more luxurious version of the Kyocera SL400R is that the swivel-body makes it possible to use them almost like a kind of digital TLR - Twin lens reflex and snap comfortably at waist-level.

There is no need to even swivel the lens-part of the body as it already points in the right direction while the ccd points upward as it is should be in a TLR-like style of using a camera.

Some of the Nikon Coolpixes, mainly the 950, 990, 995 and and also the 4500 can be used in the very same way and I've already done that with the 990 and liked the idea. Only major problem is that the slightly bulky design occasionally seems to pull unwanted notice. people sometimes looks curiously towards it and that although I camouflaged critical parts with black tape, like the almost white flash-window and also the top-lcd which shows info about aperture, jpeg quality, and metering etc. most of these things can be seen in the main lcd.

When I used the 990 like that I simply preset focus to 3m and the aperture at wide-open at f2.5 at 38mm which is as wide as that lens go. Eventually I would probably set the aperture probably something like f4 or 4.4 to make sure that the dof is long enough. Sometimes pictures have been slightly ruined because the dof was too short.

Occasionally I've run into the same problem with both 400G and also 500SE whcih I at least believe have their snapfocus fixed to equivalent 2.5m and no real possibility to control the aperture other than raise the iso to unreasonably high levels and end up with quite a lot of noise which not always looks very good compared to the GRDI, in an attempt to make the aperture stop down and get the dof sometimes needed. To make matter worse the manual focus is like a joke on these old models - There is no definitive "distance readout indicator" between closest focus and infinity. That means that it is very hard to set manual focus to what one actually want it to be and basically have to more or less have to try and estimate by guess the distance don't make very good sense.

Luckily this is something which I believe have been fixed or added to newer Ricohs like GRDIII and newer. I dunno if the GRDII got it through a firmware-upgrade or not but it is definitely missing in GRDI or older Ricohs.

That was a feature which the swivel-coolpixes had up until the 4500 there Nikon replaced it with some (imo) "stupid" focus bar according to the review of it.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp4500/page6.asp

By using the Coolpix 990 like that so the focus lag is being cut down and the shutter-lag alone was definitely not too bad to miss many opportunities when I walked along the streets not too fast and neither remarkably slowly.

I'm looking forward not only hopefully to find a good zoom for it within the next three weeks. But also to get to know how well that Kyocera SL300R may work for my purpose compared to the Coolpix 990.

Not quite yet, but eventually I might start a thread about these Coolpixes, the Kyocera and maybe other relevant cameras like the Olympus 5050z which can also can be used almost like a TLR.

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OP schaki Senior Member • Posts: 2,306
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

Midwest wrote:

schaki wrote:

And that was the problem and still is Another problem is that it is not easy to find as used even on ebay as it is very a unusual model

There are two on Ebay right now, in the range of $70 - $80 on buy it now.

Thanks. Already knew about these two though. Both of them seems to have lived quite some hard life judging by how the rubber on the bodies looks like. Mine is not quite perfect but still near mint compared to these two.

Never in my life that I would pay $70 for a compact camera which looks like those. I could take a chance and pay like $20-30 but that is the furthest I would go for conditions like that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RICOH-CAPLIO-400G-WIDE-3-2MP-ALL-WEATHER-RESISTANT-/320731858158?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item4aad1bc4ee

and http://www.ebay.com/itm/RICOH-CAPLIO-400G-WIDE-3-2MP-ALL-WEATHER-RESISTANT-/380356474679?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item588f033737

The sellers needs to get real. Seems like some odd joke with his repsonse to my question if he could perhaps lower the price when I on nov the 15 asked that question.

His response "this cameras are expensive ,i research carefully, i think its the best price you will find .thank you."

LOL. Seems like he has missed that these cameras have been replaced not only by one but three new models in that series. Maybe I should let him know that, if nothing else so to hear his response and possibly get another laugh or in best case find these two cameras in real auctions with no reserve, if he gets real enough

If anyone else feel tempted enough to buy any of these at the current prices - Don't think about me then because I'm certainly not interested enough.

You get a well-used camera which hopefully works well but can be wonderfully silent if it is a good copy.

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 18,109
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

I don't know what these cameras did or do sell for, I just wanted to make sure you knew about them. But is this model that special that you have to have that exact one? In any case I would respond to the seller "The fact that you've been sitting on these for at least two months and haven't sold either at your price ought to tell you something about your pricing. Good luck with them."

schaki wrote:

Midwest wrote:

schaki wrote:

And that was the problem and still is Another problem is that it is not easy to find as used even on ebay as it is very a unusual model

There are two on Ebay right now, in the range of $70 - $80 on buy it now.

Thanks. Already knew about these two though. Both of them seems to have lived quite some hard life judging by how the rubber on the bodies looks like. Mine is not quite perfect but still near mint compared to these two.

Never in my life that I would pay $70 for a compact camera which looks like those. I could take a chance and pay like $20-30 but that is the furthest I would go for conditions like that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RICOH-CAPLIO-400G-WIDE-3-2MP-ALL-WEATHER-RESISTANT-/320731858158?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item4aad1bc4ee

and http://www.ebay.com/itm/RICOH-CAPLIO-400G-WIDE-3-2MP-ALL-WEATHER-RESISTANT-/380356474679?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item588f033737

The sellers needs to get real. Seems like some odd joke with his repsonse to my question if he could perhaps lower the price when I on nov the 15 asked that question.

His response "this cameras are expensive ,i research carefully, i think its the best price you will find .thank you."

LOL. Seems like he has missed that these cameras have been replaced not only by one but three new models in that series. Maybe I should let him know that, if nothing else so to hear his response and possibly get another laugh or in best case find these two cameras in real auctions with no reserve, if he gets real enough

If anyone else feel tempted enough to buy any of these at the current prices - Don't think about me then because I'm certainly not interested enough.

You get a well-used camera which hopefully works well but can be wonderfully silent if it is a good copy.

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'Bass-ackward' does not equate to 'superior'.

VladimirV Senior Member • Posts: 2,659
Re: Our out of warranty experiences - Ricoh Convar service centre in Germany BEWARE!

schaki wrote:

I had no major problem with my reasoning since it was valid.

If you would have a problem with your own reasoning then this would indeed be very strange. I said that everyone else failed to see your reasoning and disagreed that is was really valid.

Why the old thread has been removed I can't say and you need to ask DPR but maybe it was the bumping of it which is against the rules as was pointed out to you.

Good for you. But it is not everyone else which enjoy that kind of luck, unfortunately. Not speaking only from myself either.

So the Convar service is not better or worse than most others so why going on and on about it?

Why only focus on your case, why not bring up other examples or start a neutral thread and collect other opinions about the service?

You want me to feel sympathetic to your cause yet you just dismiss anybody who had a good experience with the service as lucky.

Now when I've explained this for you for like the third time in total , maybe that's enough

I get what you are trying to say but you don't get that nobody really cares if an 8 year old camera could not be fixed and this hardly makes for a representative case. If you would have had a similar problem with a in warranty camera or even one only 3 years old I would understand.

I still don't get what you try to accomplish by going on and on about this?

But hey, if you are having fun keep on going with this but don't expect people to agree with you. Not agreeing or really understanding what you want to accomplish does not make one a fanboy.

VladimirV Senior Member • Posts: 2,659
Re: I don't think it is the fanboys

rondom wrote:

I think it may have been ricoh people requesting it. I was told that they do follow this forum on regular basis. Even though this forum doesn't generate nearly as much traffic as others, they probably wouldn't want it remain here....

Although Ricoh does read the forums I doubt they would remove a thread where the majority disagreed with Shaki and posted positive experiences.

If anything them reading this would help flag this situation up with Convar and improve the service.

Prognathous Veteran Member • Posts: 9,217
Partial mirror of the original thread

schaki wrote:

I don't know who but clearly some biased fanboy didn't like that truths about how badly out of warranty repairs sometimes are being fumbled or fooled up, too often, reached the daylight and simply requested a cover up by the admins by complain about that other old thread which now have been swept away completely in a dirty way to desperately hide unwanted publicity about what is going on.

I hate it when threads that raise real issues are deleted, so I searched for Google Cache copies of this thread and made my own backup (in case Google removed these pages too):

http://prognathous.sent.com/Ricoh/ricoh_germany_page1.htm
http://prognathous.sent.com/Ricoh/ricoh_germany_page4.htm
http://prognathous.sent.com/Ricoh/ricoh_germany_threaded-view.htm

Unfortunately there is no cache of the second and third pages, but this should still be better than nothing.

BTW, I didn't participate in that thread, but I too had a bad experience with Ricoh Germany support. My Caplio R5 had several issues - the zoom lever was almost inoperable and the lens was de-centered (pictures at 200mm had uneven sharpness across the picture). I sent the camera to Ricoh Germany for service, and it returned completely unrepaired. a complete waste of money (sending it for repair) and time.

I just emailed Ricoh Japan asking for advise on how to get my GX200 repaired (dead front dial), but one thing for sure - I won't be sending it to Ricoh Germany. I'd rather trash the camera than go through that again.

Prog.

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rondom Senior Member • Posts: 2,891
i won't insist it was ricoh people

Cristian-

I am sure, if ricoh is reading the forum, they already talked to their german center...they can talk and warn them and still try to get rid of negative comments? just a thought....they are running a business after all....

frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong about them asking dpreview to get rid of the thread...the problem was with dpreview agreeing with the censorship.
(who ever asked for it, I don't know and much less important)

i really think it wasn't fair to come here and see the BEWARE sign always on top, but so is life... One lousy experience (and I try to sympathize with the user here) is not representative of the entire customer base.

Very very few people come and talk about their positive experiences with service centers! But everyone that is furious and angry (and many times for good reasons) will come and complain, and maybe exaggerate?

It is a bit unfair, for sure, but why is it being removed? there were no foul language as far as i recall...

VladimirV wrote:

rondom wrote:

I think it may have been ricoh people requesting it. I was told that they do follow this forum on regular basis. Even though this forum doesn't generate nearly as much traffic as others, they probably wouldn't want it remain here....

Although Ricoh does read the forums I doubt they would remove a thread where the majority disagreed with Shaki and posted positive experiences.

If anything them reading this would help flag this situation up with Convar and improve the service.

Jim King
Jim King Veteran Member • Posts: 8,416
Rondom-

Per my post above, it was evident that the OP was deliberately breaking the Forum rules about bashing and bumping of the deleted thread - he even boasted that he was doing so. Once the moderators were made aware of it, they acted appropriately IMO. Why have rules if they aren't enforced uniformly?

You may not like the rules here, but that's the way it is.
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Jim King - Retired Colormonger - Suburban Detroit, Michigan, USA; GMT -4h (EDT)
Pentaxian for over 50 years.

* * * * *
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

  • Sir Winston Churchill

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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

  • Albert Einstein

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rondom Senior Member • Posts: 2,891
jim

Jim. I think there is a difference between personal bashing and name calling, and people attacking service practices or products of a company. i think it is worth thinking where to draw the line.

About that thread: anyone could tell that the poster was being too emotional. Personally I don't understand why i should defend a multimillion company against a sour customer? even if I love their products (which I do) and even if I think that the poster is being irrational or unfair (which I do)
Let them defend themselves. And let them try to win the customer back...
The rules that you refer to make perfect sense in person to person exchanges...

But if we start seeing censorship of customers complaining....it is a slippery slope!
Also: this comradery of XYZ camera fans/users is silly to say at least.

Jim King wrote:

Per my post above, it was evident that the OP was deliberately breaking the Forum rules about bashing and bumping of the deleted thread - he even boasted that he was doing so. Once the moderators were made aware of it, they acted appropriately IMO. Why have rules if they aren't enforced uniformly?

You may not like the rules here, but that's the way it is.

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