Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

Started Dec 19, 2011 | Discussions
alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

Or is it just that this is the first digital camera I've bought since 2008? The only caveat to that is that back in 2008 I bought an Olympus E-520 DSLR and at ISO 1600 I find the image quality to be better with the HS-20 than I did with the E-520. As far as the only other prosumer I own, the Olympus C-7070, its ISO 200 is comparable to ISO 1600 on this new camera.

We've had some dreary weather so today was the first chance I got to take pictures and please forgive me for the subject matter (an old globe sitting in my office), but here is the full image plus 100% crops, the top images are at 16mp and the bottom images at 8 mp. There is some chroma noise at 16mp but that goes away almost completely at 8mp.

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OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

I used aperture priority mode with DR 400% (dont know what this does with a 16 MP image though) and set auto ISO (1600) and the camera ended up choosing the highest possible ISO. Sharpening and noise reduction were both set to default.

Cant wait to do some landscape photography with this baby!
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kojack Regular Member • Posts: 174
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

great shot, getting newfoundland in your photo is a very big plus! ha ha....

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OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20
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OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

Here is another crop of the same image from an underexposed part of the picture (in shadow) which shows a worst-case scenario in terms of noise, but still not to bad. First the 16mp version and then the 8mp one:

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Daniel Lowe Senior Member • Posts: 2,355
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

Alex, what you are finding is something a few of us have known for a long time - the HS20 is a far better camera than the hyper critics around here would have people believe.

The tele macro performance of this camera is stunning, and as Kim L has shown, some excellent results are possible from RAW with this sensor (he has the F550) if one is inclined to go down that route.

Labe
MOD Labe Veteran Member • Posts: 9,826
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

congrats on the new cam. I've got my hs20exr as well. Just not had chance to try it out yet . Cheers Paul UK
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OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

Yup, truth be told in the last set of crops, the 16mp underexposed part of the image at ISO 1600 is similar to what I would get from my E-520 DSLR at ISO 800/1600, but the 8 mp version is about 2 stops better (more like ISO 200/400). I love doing macros and astro so Im ready to start experimenting with that.

The other cameras I own have a pixel mapping feature that maps out stuck pixels which develop over time, an option I dont see on this camera, but Im hoping this is one of those cameras that automatically does it when it happens. Having to clone them out in photoshop is a bit of a pain.

From the crop sensor calculation site I used, I've found that the actual focal length of the lens is 22.7-680.4, which actually makes it slightly wider on the wide end than the Nikon P500 (22.9-820.8), do you use any kind of converter? I've been looking for that Sony converter that's supposed to be really good, but haven't found it, and meanwhile I've picked up a 2x converter from buydig. I would only really need to extend the telephoto end for birding and lunar/planetary shots so I only care about the center of the frame for that.
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jcmarfilph Veteran Member • Posts: 7,592
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

Looking good. HS20 is a great camera.

Show em 100% crop of the continents.

-=[ Joms ]=-

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edu T Senior Member • Posts: 1,174
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

alexisgreat wrote:

(...) I've found that the actual focal length of the lens is 22.7-680.4 (...)

But of course a 700+ "reach" is better! (For the marketeers, of course.)

Here's a "note on the HS20’s focal range" from Kim Letkeman's blog ( http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2011/01/f550exr-and-f500exr-first-thoughts.html ):

"The body and lens are likely identical to the HS10. However, we know the sensor is larger than what was there before (1/2” vs. 1/2.3”), yet Fuji claim exactly the same focal range. (...)

"So are Fuji finessing the difference over the the real focal range? Or have they tweaked the body a bit to change the lens / sensor distance to compensate? Or perhaps the lens itself? I consider the first option the most likely, since that costs nothing and few people will ever check."

Well, besides KL being right about the "finessing", you and the French checked it indeed... ( http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photonumeric.fr%2Fdifferencefocale%2Findex.html )

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OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

That site comes to the conclusion that its 22-660mm but I saw a post by someone on here comparing the tele end of this camera to another camera which was 675mm on the long end and it did seem to have a higher zoom then that.

Also, check out this site where you can input real focal lengths and sensor size to get 35mm equivalents:

http://www.digified.net/focallength/

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Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Blown away by misleading HS20EXR focal lengths

alexisgreat wrote:

That site comes to the conclusion that its 22-660mm but I saw a post by someone on here comparing the tele end of this camera to another camera which was 675mm on the long end and it did seem to have a higher zoom then that.

Sorry Alex. The HS20's lens isn't as great as Fuji makes it out to be. I had the HS10 and the HS20 for a short while and compared them (on a tripod, of course) and the HS20 definitely went wider and not as long. According to the Photonumeric review (did you look at it, whether you're fluent with French or not)? I didn't do any actual measurements, but the article's 22-660mm claim sees pretty accurate.

Also, check out this site where you can input real focal lengths and sensor size to get 35mm equivalents:

From Fuji's manuals, the HS10 and the HS20EXR have identical real focal lengths, 4.2-126mm, but their sensor sizes are different, 1/2.3" and 1/2.0", so the 35mm equivalents can not be the same. If the numbers are accurate for the HS10 (likely) then the HS20EXR's 35mm equiv. focal lengths must be shorter than claimed.

OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by misleading HS20EXR focal lengths

I agree with this Bill; Im just saying it's better than 22-660mm not that its 24-720mm (see previous posts). According to the site I linked, the HS20 should be 22.7mm-680.4mm

Which begs the question, why didn't Fuji just make a new, slightly longer lens, instead of going through all this controversy?
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OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by misleading HS20EXR focal lengths

I did look at their numbers and they seemed to be approximating based on coverage, however the site I linked does the actual math.

I wonder how difficult it would have been for Fuji to just install a lens with specs like what Canon, Nikon and Sony did?
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Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: Blown away by misleading HS20EXR focal lengths

alexisgreat wrote:

I agree with this Bill; Im just saying it's better than 22-660mm not that its 24-720mm (see previous posts). According to the site I linked, the HS20 should be 22.7mm-680.4mm

Which begs the question, why didn't Fuji just make a new, slightly longer lens, instead of going through all this controversy?

Any change costs money, and the HS10's lens was pretty good so there wasn't any real need for a new design. Each change needs to be thoroughly tested, which costs money and introduces delays. Without the testing, bad things can slip through the cracks, such as purple fringing, orbs, etc..

OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by misleading HS20EXR focal lengths

BTW this is going to go way off topic (speaking of orbs lol), but I am a huge fan of science fiction also---- and I noticed you mentioned Frederik Pohl, he was best friends with Isaac Asimov, who was my favorite writer of all time (science and science fiction), I've read so many of his books and learned more from those than I did in school. It's what got me interested in astronomy in the first place (way back in 4th grade!)

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OP alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Blown away by misleading HS20EXR focal lengths

I love all the functions I have available in this camera, but the difficulty of using manual exposure mode is a downer. I was so used to using full manual mode all the time with Olympus and its excellent direct live histogram and from what I've read and experienced the Fuji histogram isnt very accurate and you cant even really see the exposure changes on the LCD.....ugh.
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edu T Senior Member • Posts: 1,174
Re: Blown away by high iso image quality of my new HS-20

alexisgreat wrote:

That site comes to the conclusion that its 22-660mm but I saw a post by someone on here comparing the tele end of this camera to another camera which was 675mm on the long end and it did seem to have a higher zoom then that.

Also, check out this site where you can input real focal lengths and sensor size to get 35mm equivalents: http://www.digified.net/focallength/

and

Billx08 wrote:

(...) the [Photonumeric review] article's 22-660mm claim sees pretty accurate.

Thanks for the calculator link.

I guess I know where the difference lies in: the 680.4 figure is purely optical whereas the French got theirs from the pixel count of the equivalent crops.

And the accuracy of the latter calculation must be affected by an unknown amount of non-effective pixels in both sensors (those on the borders, used for demosaicing and then discarded.)

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Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: Blown away by misleading HS20EXR focal lengths

alexisgreat wrote:

BTW this is going to go way off topic (speaking of orbs lol), but I am a huge fan of science fiction also---- and I noticed you mentioned Frederik Pohl, he was best friends with Isaac Asimov, who was my favorite writer of all time (science and science fiction), I've read so many of his books and learned more from those than I did in school. It's what got me interested in astronomy in the first place (way back in 4th grade!)

I've read them both, and Isaac laid down a good Foundation for others to follow. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of Mules in this sector, so there's a great need for psychohistorians. Never very plentiful, maybe that's why installing DPR's new team of moderators is so far behind schedule.

Ralph McKenzie Senior Member • Posts: 2,071
Re: Blown away by misleading HS20EXR focal lengths

Billx08 wrote:

alexisgreat wrote:

BTW this is going to go way off topic (speaking of orbs lol), but I am a huge fan of science fiction also---- and I noticed you mentioned Frederik Pohl, he was best friends with Isaac Asimov, who was my favorite writer of all time (science and science fiction), I've read so many of his books and learned more from those than I did in school. It's what got me interested in astronomy in the first place (way back in 4th grade!)

I've read them both, and Isaac laid down a good Foundation for others to follow. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of Mules in this sector, so there's a great need for psychohistorians. Never very plentiful, maybe that's why installing DPR's new team of moderators is so far behind schedule.

What we need here is a Bayta Darrel to charm and bewitch all those mules

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