K20D vs. K7 in High-ISO RAW Noise

When contemplating whether to stay with Pentax for my needs in regards to the K-7, 2 years ago, I had to consider what I wanted the camera for. A lot of the people on this Pentax forum seem to hold higher expectations and are more critical of Pentax's K series semi pro DSLR's that what their designed for. The reason that I've always decided to stay with them, is that they are the most bang for your buck, and they're put together in a very tight, compact, and very weatherproof package that suites my needs a backpacker/mountaineer who lugs his camera, lenses, and equipment many miles into and over rugged terrain. Now granted if I was wealthy, and could afford say a horse to get me close to the areas that are 20 miles in on trail, to where I go, an another say 5-7 over the trail-less and rugged areas to that of where I really like to go, then ya, I may decide to spend 3-4 times as much on say a D3x and a couple of nice lenses in the FF format. The biggest problem that I foresee with that kind of upgrade is that carries a huge weight and volume penalty when you go to that format and your gear now weighs 15-25lbs instead of 5-8lbs when you factor in the appropriate carbon fiber tripods for each of those applications. With that said, I believe that there are a lot of true and strictly photographers who weigh more heavily on the straight-up photography needs and forget about all of the other things that the newer body styles bring to the table. Let's face it, the older body styles are more on par with most of the other manufactures semi-pro bodies in terms of size and weight and feel. I know that I can't use the older body style, my K-10D, for confident one-handed operations if I'm on a very exposed class 4 climb where I need that other hand to be on the rock to give me those 3 points of contact while I shoot a photo one handed. I also need that built-in HD video to save me from having to carry a separate camcorder that will add more weight and take away from what limited space I already have. I also need that 14 degree low operating temperature range seeing as I often find myself in those conditions where 32 degrees just doesn't cut it. I also prefer to sleep with the K-5 or K-7 in-between my legs in my Down Sleeping Bag when the night time temperature dips below 14 degrees because those body styles are smaller. So it may be true, if your an outdoor enthusiast like myself, you'll definitely prefer the newer body styles for the application of those types of needs. If you’re a straight-up just-photographer, who perhaps likes Pentax and/or can't afford a true Professional Body and the equivalent lenses that go with it, ya, then you might like the older bodies. I always tend to see the people who prefer the older body styles preaching about the controls and feel for their needs and the outdoor enthusiasts like myself preaching about what I just said. If I could come up with the money, I'd have the D-4 when it comes out along with the lenses for my off-the-trail needs. Right now, I'm more of what you would consider a semi-professional photographer who doesn't need those Professional options for the majority of my shooting which is done in the extreme backcountry where the newer body styles suite those needs perfectly for what I do.

Russell, the select af OR use 4-way controller for WB etc really annoys me too! Also braketing is much better on the K20. Not everything is an upgrade, k20-k7/k5 The K5 sensor is a great improvement though, no banding for a start!
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Everything changes

Anyone who has used the K20D for an extended period of time and then used the K-5 won't lie to you ... the K-5 is just much more pleasant and capable to use. Faster operation, faster AF, better grip, better fps, better LCD, way better IQ (2+ stops at high ISO), way better battery grip, etc. etc.

The K20D is a decent used ~$350 camera, but there is nothing to go back for after you've used a K-5.

-Andy

hikenhi wrote:

I have the K-10D, K-7, & K-5. I often use my K-7 when I'm doing a lot of shooting between telephoto and standard lenses. I don't even bother with my K-10D. The metering system in the K-10D & K-20D are just not good nearly as good as the 77-segment systems in the K-7 & K-5's. My K-10D is a dust magenet for all I'm concerned. The new bodys are better(.) It's the reason I skipped the K-20D and waited for the K-7. I do have the Grip for the K-7 & K-5--freak'n awesome:

Here's my K-5 with the D-BG4 Grip and my Tamron 70-200 2.8.

Don't let these other guys fool you with there unique needs. I'm a practical guy and I don't need to get the image looking perfect in the LCD, just the exposure. Shot in RAW, spend less time in the field, and more time on a larger LCD, like a monitor!, where you can really get the color/WB right. Be sure to check my galleries, I got my colors right and I do it on the computer.

As a K20D owner who really loves the camera and has no problem with its size and weight, I would strongly recommend the K7 for most users.

Pentax implemented a much-improved metering and AF system with the K7 that makes it a better unit for the challenges of changing light or movement. I still use an old Canon 20D for telephoto action photography because it tracks motion far better than the K20D (and the Canon LII 200 f/2.8 is an amazing lens that is hard to match).

My understanding is that the K7 also handles preflash TTL quicker with far fewer droopy eye problems. (I don't even bother with TTL on the K20D - and rarely miss it.)

JNR

Go to Dxo Labs and look at the overall IQ scores of the K semi pro cameras. Notice the Samsung Sensors steadily declined in their scores from the K-10D to the K-7. I think Pentax got tired of this and switched to the Sony sensor--very good move.

hikenhi wrote:

Go to Dxo Labs and look at the overall IQ scores of the K semi pro cameras. Notice the Samsung Sensors steadily declined in their scores from the K-10D to the K-7. I think Pentax got tired of this and switched to the Sony sensor--very good move.

That's nonsense. The *ist, K100D and K10D were Sony sensors and the Samsung based K20D beat them all convincingly in every DXO measure.
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Dan

audiobomber wrote:

hikenhi wrote:

Go to Dxo Labs and look at the overall IQ scores of the K semi pro cameras. Notice the Samsung Sensors steadily declined in their scores from the K-10D to the K-7. I think Pentax got tired of this and switched to the Sony sensor--very good move.

That's nonsense. The *ist, K100D and K10D were Sony sensors and the Samsung based K20D beat them all convincingly in every DXO measure.

I said that before I looked. There was one exception, the K10D had one stop higher DR at base ISO.
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Dan

The "Overall" score kept declining. The K-10D got a 66, the K-20D got a 65, and the K-7 got a 61, so yes it was time for a change. The K-5 got a 82, which is the highest mark for of this standard for any semi-pro and it also beats many pro DSLRs including the D3. What more do I have to say?

The K-7 I tried for a few days (and almost bought) had no shutter blur. I could not replicate that isuue. Unfortunately I suceeded replicating that issue on my old K10D.

I belive that if you try hard enough you can find some "issue" on every tool or gadget. But it is sad to dedicate one's life to looking for problems. Better to take pictures.

Russell Evans wrote:

The shutter issue at 1/30-1/100s was never resolved. Whether it affected a tiny percentage, or not, is not really known. Whether it will be an issue for you I don't know. The only issue is not being able to return it if it is, or missing the return period because you didn't notice the issue in time.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=35874725

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=34608194

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=35092203

Thank you
Russell

Greg Lovern wrote:

Thanks all, Santa has bought a K7 for US$511.99 with local pickup (no shipping charge), which is the lowest in eBay's current history:

You'll love it I'm sure. Excellent price too!

Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

I so agree with your signature...suprising nobody jumped on you yet but you are 100% correct. Having said all that, Pentax IS a very nice brand (or has been to me for quite some time) and is easy to "get used" to.

Good shooting and please show off now and then!

Mike
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