Nex & FF..?

Started Nov 18, 2011 | Discussions
Andrew Elliott Junior Member • Posts: 43
Nex & FF..?

I thought I'd share this unexpected interaction that happened this evening. I popped into John Lewis, Oxford Street, London, on the way home from work, to buy a kettle.

Before I did I went to see what cameras they had in stock and maybe have a look at the 5n and lenses, knowing that the Nex 7, the one I’m interested in, would not be in stock until the new year because of the floods, etc. Interestingly, they had 2 x full frame cameras - the 5d Mk2 and the D700. John Lewis is a department store and not known as a serious photographic outlet, so I was a bit surprised - I had not seen these models for sale on the many occasions I had been in before. The bodies for both were also cheaper than I’d seen them anywhere else, online or otherwise.

Anyway, I couldn't help but notice two of the sales guys talking to two Japanese tourists. They were discussing an Alpha 77 that a sales guy was holding but judging by the way the conversation was going, the two Japanese guys seemed to know more about the camera than the sales guys did. Then I noticed one of the Japanese guys was holding a Nex 7. I had to do a double-take but it was definitely the Nex 7 - black, two thumb wheels, etc.

I asked the guy "is that yours?" We got talking and it turns out that the two "tourists" are over from Tokyo and work for Sony. He showed me the Nex 7, allowing me to handle it and I have to say it is very, very nice. It had the 18-55 kit lens on (which seemed relatively big – the body is small - and not all that fast to focus). He said that this Nex 7 was Sony’s own and one of only a very few in Europe and that it was lucky for me I turned up when I did. I agreed.

We chatted about various aspects of camera and lens design. He mentioned Nex's ability to use many other lenses with adapters, etc. and we reasoned about focal lengths & bokeh, etc. I mentioned how I was amazed how to this day the only non-DSLR FF camera was basically a 60 year-or-so old design with a FF sensor stuck inside and how the market seems to yearn for a small FF camera that would also be cheap compared to an M9. There was a lot of nodding and agreement so I asked about Nex and full frame. He looked at me and then he said slowly and deliberately, "I cannot represent the company as a spokesman, but I can definitely tell you that we are looking at it very, very seriously".

Canon EOS 5D Nikon D700 Sony Alpha NEX-7
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Slynky Senior Member • Posts: 2,434
Re: Nex & FF..?

Interesting. Thanks for the story.
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Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake Sony E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +3 more
pabloman Regular Member • Posts: 255
Re: Nex & FF..?

Oh GOD,
how much do I wish
this to be true.

ASAP, SONY, please!

sroute Senior Member • Posts: 2,497
Re: Nex & FF..?

They'd sell a lot of them. But what mount though... and what lens line for Sony?

If I can mount M glass and get good performance across the frame, I'd buy one.

pabloman Regular Member • Posts: 255
Re: Nex & FF..?

Finally
a giant company
starts to listen to it's customers!

relate22 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
Re: Nex & FF..?

The problem for Sony going Full frame and different lens. So they sell 10,000, not much profit compared to the 100.000's they sell of other cameras.

Full frame is too specialised in my opinion. You have to remember camera's are made to make money not to make pretty pictures.
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TiagoReil
TiagoReil Senior Member • Posts: 1,584
Re: Nex & FF..?

All the videos you see online, with real sony people (sorry, is not that I dont believe you) all say that sony is not working on that, at least not in a current product, and that lenses would be too big. OF course R&D is looking at all things possible, and of course a rep will always tell you "Sony is looking very seriously into it". Thats a Publics relationship phrase. But the truth is that all are saying, no, there is no NEX FF in the near future. See the B&H video posted these past days, for instance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=co2Qa9y_1Ns

And before you answer me, that it would be awsome, I wil ltell you bah! I want my MEdium format Nex!!! Where is it!!! I cant live without it!!!!

Ti@go

 TiagoReil's gear list:TiagoReil's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony 85mm F2.8 SAM Sigma 70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro +3 more
pabloman Regular Member • Posts: 255
Re: Nex & FF..?

If LEICA is able to make enough money from selling ONLY A FEW THOUSANDS of their hyper-snobish-vip FF RF cameras selling them for a lot of thousands of dollars. Then I see no reason, why a reasonably priced camera, full of advanced technologies, would not sell in 100 times larger quantities bringing large revenue even from the then already (ex)-Leica users that would certainly jump ship to the new FF nex with their lenses... This way, SONY would even win over some new RICH customers who would be even willing to pay premium prices for some high-quality glass for the NEX FF system... Think about it, SONY! There is a lot of cash in there. And you practically don't have to develop ANY new technologies at all!

(me and thousands of people want an obtainable FF E-Mount camera)

with IBIS, please .)

viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,137
Re: Nex & FF..?

relate22 wrote:

The problem for Sony going Full frame and different lens. So they sell 10,000, not much profit compared to the 100.000's they sell of other cameras.

Very true, which is why the Leica M9 costs $7,000.

Full frame is too specialised in my opinion. You have to remember camera's are made to make money not to make pretty pictures.

I disagree. Remember it is consumers who buy most cameras. If only Pro's bought cameras, they would all be very expensive. The sole purpose of a camera is to make pretty pictures. Some people chose to use those pretty pictures to make money.

I think for a company to make a full frame range finder and to make it successfully they will need to be able to get at least $2000 for it. Sony is in an OK position, as they have the NEX 7 now which is $1300, but Sony has shown that just because they have a cheap full frame doesn't mean people will buy it (A850), i.e. most people don't care so much the camera costs in that price range, they buy based on brand name/image.

The reason I think Sony is in a great position for a full frame NEX style camera is they said a large number of their users are using non-Sony lenses (the BH Video said 50%). That is a large niche market, and if those people would pay for an FX camera to use with their existing lenses, Sony would be able to launch it with just a few lenses like they did the NEX.

Eric
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sroute Senior Member • Posts: 2,497
Re: Nex & FF..?

TiagoReil wrote:

All the videos you see online, with real sony people ... that lenses would be too big.

That's Sony BS of course, just another marketing way of indicating to customers that they are listening regarding the "huge lens" complaints they already get.

The difference between a Leica M mount lens and Sony E mount lens is the Leica is designed to sit about 10mm farther away from the sensor plane. There's a booming business in M-> NEX adapters and the combined assembly certainly is not "too big".

Consumers of full frame compact cameras would be quite happy, I believe, to see a slightly larger body (in all three dimensions) so if Sony really wanted to come out with an entirely new professional line of mirror-less cameras, patterned after the M mount or at least built with adaptability in mind, the resulting camera would be for many people "just right".

hdr Senior Member • Posts: 2,833
Re: Nex & FF..?

The first maker who comes out with a low-priced FF mirrorless camera the same size as the old SLRs will cause a stampede of enthusiasts.

I am sure the whole world is waiting with it's breath holding.

D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 18,085
Re: Nex & FF..?

sroute wrote:

They'd sell a lot of them. But what mount though... and what lens line for Sony?

Same E mount as now.

It is easy to switch over to using only the middle of the sensor when an APS-C lens is attached - all the Sony lenses can identify themselves. It could be, for example, 48 Megapixels with FF lenses and 24 with APS-C and half-frame lenses.

The vast majority of manual lenses people are using cover Full Frame (the exceptions being the Pen-F lenses).

If I can mount M glass and get good performance across the frame, I'd buy one.

The wide-angle lenses might be tricky, but you would get superb results from Leitz 50mm or 90mm lenses.

D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 18,085
Re: Nex & FF..?

pabloman wrote:

If LEICA is able to make enough money from selling ONLY A FEW THOUSANDS of their hyper-snobish-vip FF RF cameras selling them for a lot of thousands of dollars. Then I see no reason, why a reasonably priced camera, full of advanced technologies, would not sell in 100 times larger quantities bringing large revenue even from the then already (ex)-Leica users that would certainly jump ship to the new FF nex with their lenses...

They wouldn't really be ex-Leica users, because they would keep on using their Leica lenses.

sroute Senior Member • Posts: 2,497
Re: Nex & FF..?

I doubt that Sony would want to market a camera whose native mount lenses don't use the full frame of the sensor.

While that arrangement would be a-ok with me and thousands of full frame manual focus lenses, new and old, the market for the camera has to be bigger than folks like us.

My sense is the Sony rep was being polite and unless we hear more about this I figure the more likely (or the first) company to come out with a full frame, enthusiast targeted, camera will be Ricoh via their GXR platform or a new revision to it.

fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,222
and then the Easter Bunny popped his head out of the ground...

.. and said.. BOO! Photos to back it up would have been nice...

harvey_tbee Regular Member • Posts: 137
Re: Nex & FF..?

The vast majority of manual lenses people are using cover Full Frame (the exceptions being the Pen-F lenses).

And a few IX-Nikkors, Minolta Vectis, and lenses taken from half frame compacts - lately I've been having fun with a Color Soligor 2.8/30. But of course you are right, all those other lenses lying around here were designed for FF.

A FF-Nex would be a serious Leica competitor (I don't like the word killer), and would add much: RF focusing isn't MY cup of tea.

harvey_tbee Regular Member • Posts: 137
Re: Nex & FF..?

And of course Sony will keep the steps they're taking on the FF-NEX secret in order not to wake up competition!

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