C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

Started Nov 4, 2011 | Discussions
john_bmth101 Regular Member • Posts: 115
C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

The canon C300 is $20,000 and shoots 1080p at a max 60fps. You can have one by the end of January 2012.

The SCARLET specs so far show it is a true 4K video camera and also shoots 1080p at a max 120fps and they are selling it for....... $9750. and.... you can have one in two weeks.
http://twitter.com/# ! fxguidelive

Ouch.... Thats a pretty brutal commercial bashing

studio311 Contributing Member • Posts: 553
Re: C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

Anyone here care to explain how the Scarlet might compare to a 5d2 for stills? I'm thinking the other announcement - EOS C - is more my cup'o tea.

Pultzar Senior Member • Posts: 1,529
C300 is only 720p at 60fps

1080p mode is 23.976, 24.0, and 30.0 fps. If you want 60fps then you have to drop down to 720p.

Scarlet looks amazing, is compatible with the Epic accessories, and will be upgradable to the Dragon sensor in 2012.

OP john_bmth101 Regular Member • Posts: 115
Re: C300 is only 720p at 60fps

Double ouch

JimSocks Regular Member • Posts: 248
Re: C300 is only 720p at 60fps

i'm guessing their will probably be a price drop announcement soon. the canon can't compete at that price.

Edymagno Veteran Member • Posts: 3,670
Now, this is more like it.

Canon, negligent with their real customers, the photographers. And venturing into unknown territory where real cine camera makers are doing just great!
Eduardo

http://www.red.com/products/scarlet#product-overview

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megapixeldave Senior Member • Posts: 1,746
Re: Now, this is more like it.

ive seen it posted several times that the c300 is more like to come in at around 14k and not 20k as for street price. otherwise i think it will be a hard sell against the trimmed out scarlet x with accessories at 14k. either way both look to be exceptional pieces of gear.

david

megapixeldave Senior Member • Posts: 1,746
Re: C300 is only 720p at 60fps

Pultzar wrote:

1080p mode is 23.976, 24.0, and 30.0 fps. If you want 60fps then you have to drop down to 720p.

Scarlet looks amazing, is compatible with the Epic accessories, and will be upgradable to the Dragon sensor in 2012.

although an upgrade will be available its going to cost a lot more because the scarlet needs more to make it work according to a RED Q&A from RED's site...

quote...
Can Scarlet-X be upgraded to the new Dragon sensor when it is released?

Yes. However the upgrade will be more expensive than upgrading an EPIC due to the necessity to change several primary boards. There will still be data rate limitations to Scarlet after the upgrade as compared with EPIC.

Davero Regular Member • Posts: 204
Re: C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

Canon Are You Crazy

A Biger Monster sold for $9750.00 Dollars
Red Scarlett

Canon Your Jet Is Fly to High

Canon Are You Crazy
The Same Monster sold for $5200 Dollars

Nikon D4 at Same spects and same Iso ( Sensor are cleaner Image in Raw )of 1Dx

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RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 30,738
Re: C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

Davero wrote:

Nikon D4 at Same spects and same Iso ( Sensor are cleaner Image in Raw )of 1Dx

Not sure what you are talking about, there is no nikon d4 yet.

uuronl Senior Member • Posts: 1,672
Don't forget REDCODE RAW

Quoted from Wikipedia:

"REDCODE RAW is a variable bit rate wavelet codec which allows raw sensor data to be compressed sufficiently for practical on-camera recording. Two variants were offered initially, one with a maximum data rate of 28 MB/s (224 megabit/s), and one with a maximum data rate of 36 MB/s (288 megabit/s). Recent firmware upgrades allow the camera to record an additional data rate of 42 MB/s (336 megabit/s). These bit rates represent compression ratios of about 12:1, 9:1, and 8:1 respectively.

REDCODE is a mathematically lossy codec, meaning that decompression does not fully restore the original image data captured by the camera. Red claims the codec is "visually lossless", suggesting that the information loss is not visible to the naked eye when images are viewed. However, sample images detailing noticeable artifacts have been posted on the manufacturer's forum. Because Redcode is a wavelet codec, similar to CineForm RAW and JPEG2000, the nature of these artifacts is different from "blocking", characteristic of traditional compression algorithms.

Unlike cameras that record RGB data, the camera records raw data similar to the Dalsa Origin and Silicon Imaging SI-2K. Recording raw data allows white balance, gamma and other image processing parameters like sharpening to be set during post production. Adjusting these settings directly on camera does not impact the raw data that is actually recorded, but rather modifies metadata recorded alongside recorded images, which is accessible to software utilizing the camera's SDK. These meta-settings, called "looks" can be saved and applied to the camera's outputs to allow on-set crew to see an image more closely representing the director of photography's vision for the picture rather than the more "flat" look of the raw image data that comes from the sensor by default, while retaining the flexibility of the sensor data for post production.

Another consequence of the Red's RAW-based work flow is that footage must be processed through a demosaicing algorithm before it can be viewed. Red has provided a QuickTime component which allows a fast demosaic to occur in real time so the footage can be used in applications that support QuickTime without transcoding. Higher quality output can be achieved by transcoding the footage through Red's RedCine-X or RedCine-X Pro desktop software. Using the Red Rocket card allows for real-time processing. Currently the QuickTime component is only available for Intel based Mac OS X and not Windows.

Editing the very high resolution 4K files directly is extremely processor intensive and outside the capabilities of most current computers. However, since REDCODE is a wavelet codec, the files contain several lower resolution versions of the video; the codec uses each in sequence to build the next higher resolution version.[7] That means a 4K file can supply 2K, 1K, or even 0.5K footage directly without decoding the full 4K resolution data followed by scaling. For QuickTime and other programs without support for this feature, reference movies can be made. These are small files without video data but contain pointers into the original video file. For example in Final Cut Pro, one may import QuickTime reference files that only have pointers to the parts of the 4K file that contain the lower resolution version. This way work is done with speedy low resolution video without need for a separate low resolution copy."

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Lea5
Lea5 Contributing Member • Posts: 686
Re: C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

Davero wrote:

Nikon D4 at Same spects and same Iso ( Sensor are cleaner Image in Raw )of 1Dx

Huh? Where can I see the specs of a "D4?" Any links? Would you please post the specs? So I can replace my D3. Thanks!

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Joesiv Veteran Member • Posts: 5,497
Re: C300 is only 720p at 60fps

Pultzar wrote:

1080p mode is 23.976, 24.0, and 30.0 fps. If you want 60fps then you have to drop down to 720p.

Scarlet looks amazing, is compatible with the Epic accessories, and will be upgradable to the Dragon sensor in 2012.

And also the C300 is only 60p in 720p mode.

Sad becuase in the dpreview interview they said the sensor could handle 1080p 60, but it would have required a more powerful processor and different codec.... for the price of the C300, I would have expected a processor that could handle 60p, consider consumer cameras can do it! I think this is another AF100 blunder, where the manufactuer is limiting the capabilities of the camera for broadcast standards.

However, there is new AVC spec which has 60p... Even motion JPG at 60p would be greatly appreciated for many folks. Aww well, I guess the next model will be the one that everyone wants.

I'm guessing Canon will drop the price to compete with scarlet or add one of their prime lens' as a package at the same price to compete.

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MajStriker Contributing Member • Posts: 848
Re: C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

It does seem like an incredibly bad decision by Canon. Forget comparing it to RED, what does this camera do that makes it worth $18,000 more than the 5DII. For the price of one C300, I can buy 10 5D IIs or perhaps 5 5D II and enough glass to go with them. I'm not filmmaker but I think I could live with the limitations of the 5DII for a margin of a new car per camera.

But yeah, looks like RED has them beat under the table. Especially since the C300 has a limited output of 1920x1080 in video or still format.

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 70,886
Re: C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

john_bmth101 wrote:

The canon C300 is $20,000 and shoots 1080p at a max 60fps. You can have one by the end of January 2012.

Agreed, Canon has become very timid. I'm wondering if they hired the product planning team that Nikon sacked after the D2h.

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Bob

Jay Aquino Senior Member • Posts: 1,029
To look at this positively...

This increases the applications of EF lenses. This can mean more and possibly cheaper lenses as more need to be produced.

Jay

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,546
Canon have both ends covered. Scarlet uses EF mount

john_bmth101 wrote:

The canon C300 is $20,000 and shoots 1080p at a max 60fps. You can have one by the end of January 2012.

The SCARLET specs so far show it is a true 4K video camera and also shoots 1080p at a max 120fps and they are selling it for....... $9750. and.... you can have one in two weeks.
http://twitter.com/# ! fxguidelive

Ouch.... Thats a pretty brutal commercial bashing

Keep in mind that Canon were smart enough to allow RED to offer a Canon EF mount version of their Scarlet camera.

http://www.photographybay.com/2011/11/03/red-scarlet-gets-sub-10k-price-canon-ef-lens-mount-4k-motion/
http://www.red.com/store/scarlet/product/scarlet-x-al-canon-mount-package

This gives Canon the inside track for film makers who use either Canon's movie camera or RED's movie camera. Because with either camera, you'll be tied to Canon's lenses. Pretty smart.

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,546
Re: Now, this is more like it.

megapixeldave wrote:

ive seen it posted several times that the c300 is more like to come in at around 14k and not 20k as for street price. otherwise i think it will be a hard sell against the trimmed out scarlet x with accessories at 14k. either way both look to be exceptional pieces of gear.

david

And it's quite likely that someone buying the Scarlet will be choosing the Canon EF-mount version, so that they can have cross-compatibility of EF lenses with Canon DSLRs as well as Canon'a C cameras. So its all win-win for Canon.

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Pultzar Senior Member • Posts: 1,529
Re: C300 is only 720p at 60fps

My small Sony that I carry around in my pocket can do 1080 60p at 28mbps

Scott Larson Veteran Member • Posts: 7,427
Re: C300 vs SCARLET ....oh dear

This camera doesn't make any sense for the digital cinema market. It's crowded and competitive with new features appearing every few months. Everyone in it is demanding 4K now, not HD.

Canon entered with what looks like nothing more than an overpriced HD camera. Maybe they're aiming for the less competitive broadcast industry where their video lenses are already popular.

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