Do some people not realize the X10 is a point and shoot ??

Started Oct 31, 2011 | Discussions
HDaRt Regular Member • Posts: 298
Re: Do some people not realize forum participants are entitled to an opinion?

Some cameras capture the attention of photographers who have an idealized version of their perfect camera. And though some of their expectations may be a step or two away from realization, they are based on their knowledge and photographic experience, limited or otherwise.

"All these complaints about noise levels, lack of resolution etc. Its a small sensor point and shoot, what do people expect ??"

They have stated what they expect and even if they aren't always in touch with the limitations of technology they are entitled to have an opinion. Calling them out like you are the professor on advanced camera tech class changes nothing but conveys a position of self proclaimed superiority. Frankly, that's worse, and boring.

millsart wrote:

Do some people not realize this is a point and shoot camera and think its going to replace their Leica, DSLR, X100, m4/3 gear etc ??

Its "bigger" 2/3 sensor is really only about 10% or so bigger than than of the LX5, G12 and all the other premium compact.

Thats not going to make a huge difference in performance, nor DoF. Its still a small sensor and isn't going to come close to even APS-C, nor should anyone expect it to.

All this camera is is a very cool retro styled point and shoot with some really nice ergonomic direct controls, good (for a p&s) image quality, and a pretty nice fast zoom and an OVF thats usable, but nothing better than sticking an external finder on a LX5 or other cameras, aside from that it zooms, which is cool.

Thats is, its not going to replace a Leica, or be a poor man's Leica, or even a poor man X100 or any other camera.

All its going to be is a fun little point and shoot that handles really well and can take pictures that are good for a point and shoot.

Not going to a low light machine, not going to be a pro wedding shooters camera, not going to produce fine art 20X30" prints etc.

Its going to do the same roles you'd carry a G12, LX5, P7000 etc for, but with a bit more style and a nice interface.

I think its awesome for what it is, I handled one, loved it and have mine on order, but lets just have some sense of perspective here folks.

Remember, its just a point and shoot, treat it like one and you'll be happy. Think its going to allow you to sell off all your other gear, have a better sensor than a NEX5n or K5 etc is just silly.

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HDaRt

(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 far exceeds the capability they need?

Your point is noted. Please accept my sincere apology.

Harold66
Harold66 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,087
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 is a point and shoot ??

ship2007 wrote:

From the x10 samples, I am disppointed by their IQ at low iso. I expected it is better than xz-1 in IQ for its 2/3 CMOS. But it is not good as xz-1 in low iso. When using xz-1 inside rooms, usually the iso of xz-1 is just at iso 200 for its fast lense.

Hello

I think one should wait to see files from RAWimages from reviewers who know what they are doing

so far I am not too impressed by what I have seen but I do not think it is telling much as post links post to early adopters using overshrapened jpegs or out of focus pictures

Harold
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Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 far exceeds the capability they need?

Daniel Lauring wrote:
. . .

rattymouse wrote:

Daniel Lauring wrote:

Back to the X10. Is it the highest resolving camera? No. Can it take pictures in lower light than any other camera? No. But, is it more than adequate for 99.99% of the photography most people will do. H_ll YES!

So only 0.01% of people need more than 112mm of focal length or less than 28mm's?

I'd be embarrassed to write something like that.

. . .

People need to stop being mean spirited in their replies . . .
. . .

A little civility goes a long way on forums. Once people start getting nasty things go downhill fast which is exactly what I'm seeing here at dpreview.

So "I'd be embarrassed" is more mean spirited and less civil than your "H_ll YES!" ???   I think that civility starts to go downhill fast when people see mild differences of opinions as incivility, and that's exactly what we're seeing here at dpreview.

noobdprseller Regular Member • Posts: 437
Re: beteen evolution & revolution Re: Correction: X10 is...

buckshot wrote:
noobdprseller

Im also trying to think of any other digicompact that does X10's accurate focus tracking 10fps.

Does that make it more than a P&S? It is nice but it is just a good feature on a P&S camera

It make it more as a high speed shooting DLSR. Canon 1DX is one of the highest speed p&s.

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HCB "Photography has not changed since its origin except in its technical aspects, which for me are not important."

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Daniel Lauring
Daniel Lauring Veteran Member • Posts: 9,342
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 far exceeds the capability they need?

Apology accepted. I felt a little bad pointing the finger toward you because I've seen much, much worse here at dpreview. It seems like every time a new camera comes out now there are people on both sides insulting each other over it instead of talking strictly about the merits of the camera. Part of it is probably the natural human tendency to marry our opinions of ourselves and others, to our choices. Part of it is the autonomy of the internet. Part of it is the lack of strict posting policies and enforcement of those policies.

Once a forum gets too "Wild West" the more intelligent, reasoned posters either leave, or find themselves rolling with the pigs. It becomes more difficult to reign back order and civility and less beneficial to everybody. I hope dpreview hasn't gone past that point.

rattymouse wrote:

Your point is noted. Please accept my sincere apology.

noobdprseller Regular Member • Posts: 437
Re: You say you want a revolution . . .

Billx08 wrote:

noobdprseller wrote:

Im also trying to think of any other digicompact that does X10's accurate focus tracking 10fps.

Series 1 does it better, faster, although with a really large lens mounted it won't be so compact any more.

Nikon Series 1 should with its pdaf. Yet its not a compact it is an interchangeable. AFAIK there is no digital compact nor bridge that does X10 accurate af tracking 10fps.

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buckshot
buckshot Veteran Member • Posts: 9,959
Re: beteen evolution & revolution Re: Correction: X10 is...

noobdprseller

It make it more as a high speed shooting DLSR.

Baahaahaa You are cracking me up ...stop

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Daniel Lauring
Daniel Lauring Veteran Member • Posts: 9,342
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 far exceeds the capability they need?

Billx08 wrote:

Daniel Lauring wrote:

So "I'd be embarrassed" is more mean spirited and less civil than your "H_ll YES!" ???

I think so. But maybe my comment could be construed badly too.

Billx08 wrote:

I think that civility starts to go downhill fast when people see mild differences of opinions as > incivility, and that's exactly what we're seeing here at dpreview.

I agree 100%. I hope somehow the tide changes at dpreview. IMHO, the forum moderators need to step in quickly before it reaches a point of no return...if it hasn't already. This forum needs, 1. A strict no insult policy. 2. Zero tolerance enforcement of that policy.

noobdprseller Regular Member • Posts: 437
Re: beteen evolution & revolution Re: Correction: X10 is...

buckshot wrote:
noobdprseller

It make it more as a high speed shooting DLSR.

Baahaahaa You are cracking me up ...stop

I do like to see people smile

Canon 1dmk4 10fps.
Nikon D3 9fps.
Fuji X10 10fps.

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HCB "Photography has not changed since its origin except in its technical aspects, which for me are not important."

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Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 far exceeds the capability they need?

Daniel Lauring wrote:
. . .

I think that civility starts to go downhill fast when people see mild differences of opinions as > incivility, and that's exactly what we're seeing here at dpreview.

I agree 100%. I hope somehow the tide changes at dpreview. IMHO, the forum moderators need to step in quickly before it reaches a point of no return...if it hasn't already. This forum needs, 1. A strict no insult policy. 2. Zero tolerance enforcement of that policy.

I think that at least some changes will come (DPR is working on it, slowly) but even if they don't come, I don't see a "global warming" type of point of no return. The FTF has been like this for many years, and if nothing changes it will simply go on as it always has. Some complain about good people leaving, and while there may be some truth to that, there have been a number of really bad actors that are no longer here, and a few of them are actually missed by some forum warriors, mainly for their combativeness. Actually, despite some ongoing problems, the FTF seems to be a little more civil all things considered, than it used to be.

Daniel Lauring
Daniel Lauring Veteran Member • Posts: 9,342
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 far exceeds the capability they need?

That's good to hear. I have to say, however, it is way less civil than when I used to regularly post, 8 years ago.

Billx08 wrote:

Actually, despite some ongoing problems, the FTF seems to be a little more civil all things considered, than it used to be.

Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 is a point and shoot ??

Of course it's a point and shoot a more upmarket one for sure but yes it's a p&s if you want to use that term.

And no I doubt many will get one to replace their DSLR (after all a DSLR's entire existence is mostly on the change the lens pull)

Some might get one to use for a more serious lighter take around camera which is exactly what the X10 is aimed at.

buckshot
buckshot Veteran Member • Posts: 9,959
Re: beteen evolution & revolution Re: Correction: X10 is...

noobdprseller

I do like to see people smile

Canon 1dmk4 10fps.
Nikon D3 9fps.
Fuji X10 10fps.

How long does it take to write?

Can you you shoot and focus 10 times in ten seconds?

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JB
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noobdprseller Regular Member • Posts: 437
10fps focus tracking accuracy Re: beteen evolution & revolution

Hello

buckshot wrote:
noobdprseller

I do like to see people smile

Canon 1dmk4 10fps.
Nikon D3 9fps.
Fuji X10 10fps.

How long does it take to write?

Can you you shoot and focus 10 times in ten seconds?

Yes X10 shoots & focuses 10 times a second.
Class 4 sdhc transcend 1.5-2sec writing it was ready to shoot another 10fps.

http://s1038.photobucket.com/albums/a465/having_anicetime/Fujifilm%20X10/Fujifilm%20X10%20FOCUS%20TRACKING/?albumview=slideshow

I took this whilst testing X10 outside CameraWorld in a shopping mall, difficult lighting : exposure accurate, clothing colours, skin tones, wb, shop signs all accurate.
With practice i know i could have taken faster moving action.
X10 10fps continuous autofocus, af tracking is excellent.

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HCB "Photography has not changed since its origin except in its technical aspects, which for me are not important."

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buckshot
buckshot Veteran Member • Posts: 9,959
Re: 10fps focus tracking accuracy Re: beteen evolution & revolution

noobdprseller

Can you you shoot and focus 10 times in ten seconds?

Yes X10 shoots & focuses 10 times a second.

I meant is it able to, without a burst, take 10 shots in ten seconds and focus and write? If so that is awesome!!

Class 4 sdhc transcend 1.5-2sec writing it was ready to shoot another 10fps.

Very fast ...sweet

I took this whilst testing X10 outside CameraWorld in a shopping mall, difficult lighting : exposure accurate, clothing colours, skin tones, wb, shop signs all accurate.
With practice i know i could have taken faster moving action.
X10 10fps continuous autofocus, af tracking is excellent.

That sounds nice also. You may not know it yet but I am a fan of Fujifilm. I am not an X10 basher. I am sure it will be a wonderful camera.

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JB
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jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,875
Re: Do some people not realize the X10 far exceeds the capability they need?
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that writer was clearly an amateur. Try all the slr lenses ppl have in slr forums. tons.

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OP millsart Senior Member • Posts: 2,771
10 fps is only at smaller files sizes

Only with the smaller file sizes does the camera do 10 fps, its otherwise limited to 7fps at fuller size files, same speed as the NEX5 (I think the new NEX7 will do 10 fps at full size files, just fyi)

I'm also not sure if the focus tracking is at the high frame rate or if, again like the NEX I used to have, if it locks the exposure and focus on the first frame and just fires the burst.

I've had a couple of Panasonic FZ series superzooms that could also shoot 10fps, or in the case of the FZ100 I think it was actually 11 or 12 fps, however, it only could try to AF (and often fail) at 5 fps max

Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: 10 fps is only at smaller files sizes

millsart wrote:

. . .

I'm also not sure if the focus tracking is at the high frame rate or if, again like the NEX I used to have, if it locks the exposure and focus on the first frame and just fires the burst.

I suspect that it doesn't do focus tracking at the high frame rates, since DPR's mini-review (Impressions) of Nikon's V1 made it sound like its ability to do focus tracking at 10 fps was a breakthrough that relied on the use of a mechanical shutter :

Nikon makes great claims for the V1's AF and continuous capture modes. Both it and the J1 offer a maximum frame rate of 60fps in electronic shutter mode (the J1 only offers electronic shutter, since it lacks a mechanical one), and up to 10fps with focus tracking engaged. The V1 is a better tool for fast action photography though (especially panning shots) since its mechanical shutter avoids the characteristic ‘leaning tower’-type distortion caused by the well-known rolling shutter effect.

After using the V1's continuous AF tracking mode, I'm confident that Nikon's claims for the new system aren't hyperbole. In AF-S mode, the V1 uses a conventional contrast-detection AF system. Switch to continuous AF though, and the V1 moves up a gear. In this mode, assuming that the light level is high enough, the V1 switches to a 73-point focal-plane phase-detection AF system, which offers noticeably faster AF responsiveness and - from what I've seen so far - truly impressive continuous AF tracking performance.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6600156832/first-impressions-using-the-nikon-v1/2

buckshot
buckshot Veteran Member • Posts: 9,959
There you go with reality again!! :-D

millsart

Only with the smaller file sizes does the camera do 10 fps, its otherwise limited to 7fps at fuller size files, same speed as the NEX5 (I think the new NEX7 will do 10 fps at full size files, just fyi)

That is too bad I started to get really interested ... dang that wet blanket

I'm also not sure if the focus tracking is at the high frame rate or if, again like the NEX I used to have, if it locks the exposure and focus on the first frame and just fires the burst.

It will be interesting to see... if it does focus track I wonder how it decides the subject after the first frame...

I've had a couple of Panasonic FZ series superzooms that could also shoot 10fps, or in the case of the FZ100 I think it was actually 11 or 12 fps, however, it only could try to AF (and often fail) at 5 fps max

I would rather be able to fire away myself at a really fast rate than be at the mercy of a burst. With the X10 it looks like you get 10 small files every 2.5 seconds or so ... hmmm with 1.5 of those seconds locked for a write ... hmmm there goes that wet blanket again

Thank you for reality

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