NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

Started Oct 29, 2011 | Discussions
3N7HU51A5T
3N7HU51A5T New Member • Posts: 16
NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

I'm waiting on a NEX7 and I really don't understand why it matters if third party glass works on the NEX bodies.

From reading through a few threads I see some people are upset that the images from wide rangefinder glass won't perform well without extra post work. Is that a legitimate complaint? People were never guaranteed stellar images with third party glass. The NEX bodies are designed to work with NEX glass. From what I see The NEX7 does exactly what it was designed to do and it does it well. If you purposely bought any third party glass fully expecting it to work on every generation of NEX now and in the future then good luck. It may or may not perform well. Not Sony's fault.

The reviews I've read concerning the NEX7 seem very positive.

 3N7HU51A5T's gear list:3N7HU51A5T's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm F4-5.6 R +1 more
headofdestiny Veteran Member • Posts: 9,226
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

I'm waiting on a NEX7 and I really don't understand why it matters if third party glass works on the NEX bodies.

From reading through a few threads I see some people are upset that the images from wide rangefinder glass won't perform well without extra post work. Is that a legitimate complaint? People were never guaranteed stellar images with third party glass. The NEX bodies are designed to work with NEX glass. From what I see The NEX7 does exactly what it was designed to do and it does it well. If you purposely bought any third party glass fully expecting it to work on every generation of NEX now and in the future then good luck. It may or may not perform well. Not Sony's fault.

The reviews I've read concerning the NEX7 seem very positive.

Sony has been openly promoting the use of alternative lenses on NEX for a year.

Still, the corner performance issue extends to their own lenses, as well. As we've seen with the NEX-C3 and NEX-5N compared to the older NEX models, not only is there less color shift with Sony's own 16mm lens, but the resolution has improved at the edges a bit, as well.

If Sony made all of their NEX sensors as compatible with angled light rays as the NEX-C3/5N, they probably wouldn't need to make lenses that are so large and relatively tele centric, like the new Zeiss 24/1.8. I assumed the new NEX-7 would follow in the steps of the NEX-C3/5N, but now I'm not so sure.

Knallberto Veteran Member • Posts: 5,478
NEX7

I didn't read reviews, but I am sure ... 29 lenses, which work well with my NEX5 also will work superb with NEX7.

SQLGuy
SQLGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

+1

They very directly promote 3rd party, including, by name, Leica lenses on the Nex-7 product page. If they were talking about Leica's R lenses, they should have been a lot more specific. I'd say it is their fault.

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666375219

headofdestiny wrote:

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

Not Sony's fault.

Sony has been openly promoting the use of alternative lenses on NEX for a year.

-- hide signature --

Nex-5 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

 SQLGuy's gear list:SQLGuy's gear list
Canon PowerShot G9 Canon PowerShot S100 (2000) Canon EOS-1D Canon EOS 5D Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro +26 more
whtchocla7e Contributing Member • Posts: 931
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

You can use whatever you want but they do not guarantee any results..

SQLGuy wrote:
+1

They very directly promote 3rd party, including, by name, Leica lenses on the Nex-7 product page. If they were talking about Leica's R lenses, they should have been a lot more specific. I'd say it is their fault.

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666375219

headofdestiny wrote:

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

Not Sony's fault.

Sony has been openly promoting the use of alternative lenses on NEX for a year.

captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,478
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

Sony promote others' lenses because they don't have enough of their own. Doing so opens them up for the potential of some mis-match like this, which may be later be fixed with new firmware.

c3 and 5N have improved performance with some glass, because of an improved sensor.

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Sony a7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM +3 more
sroute Senior Member • Posts: 2,507
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

whtchocla7e wrote:

You can use whatever you want but they do not guarantee any results..

Of course they won't guarantee results, that's hardly the point.

A large percentage of the buzz around the entire NEX line of cameras has to do with the ability to repurpose legacy SLR glass and other lenses, including rangefinder glass. RF glass is particularly interesting to photographers who want to minimize the overall length of the camera along the lens axis, because M mount RF cameras have a much shorter flange focal distance. In short, adapters are about much shorter than SLR lens adapters. Additionally there has been some very fine glass produced for RF cameras over the years.

Sony doesn't have to guarantee results but they still have to do the groundwork if they expect the broad support the NEX family of cameras has garnered to hold up for the long run.

I'm not saying Sony hasn't delivered - the "corner cast" issue being bandied about is fairly trivial to fix in firmware alone. If that is the only thing wrong with the camera, from my perspective anyway, then the camera is the closest thing to perfect I've seen in a while and of course I'll want to keep mine if/when it ships.

Sony has to be aware of the demand from manual focus / legacy / rangefinder glass users. An entire ecosystem of adapter makers has sprung up. Such lenses help Sony claim the NEX enjoys broad lens support, and it is true, no doubt about it. Sony themselves have developed what many feel is the best manual focus aide since the split circle/prism ring in manual focus SLRs. They simply would not waste cycles on this stuff if it wasn't important to the product and brand.

Those who are content to use E mount autofocus and nothing but - all the more power to you. Within the broad group of all NEX users including regular consumers, you are a majority no doubt. Within the enthusiast or pro community, you might actually be in a minority.

Buzz comes from enthusiasts and pros who use and write about these products, not from consumers. Sony knows this you can be sure.

3N7HU51A5T
OP 3N7HU51A5T New Member • Posts: 16
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

SQLGuy wrote:

+1

They very directly promote 3rd party, including, by name, Leica lenses on the Nex-7 product page. If they were talking about Leica's R lenses, they should have been a lot more specific. I'd say it is their fault.

Neither company designed their products to be compatible with the other. The people that are "adapting" these products to each other are choosing to. Sony says third party lenses can be used. Sony doesn't say go do it.

 3N7HU51A5T's gear list:3N7HU51A5T's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm F4-5.6 R +1 more
SQLGuy
SQLGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

I included the link when I posted it before, but I guess I should post the actual text here:

"Accepts non-Sony lenses via adaptor

You can use the camera with a universe of lenses from Canon, Nikon, Leica, Olympus and others. The success of Sony’s NEX series, combined with the ultra-short 18 mm flange back distance has inspired third-party manufacturers to provide lens adaptors. In addition, Sony has disclosed the E Mount specification to Carl Zeiss, Cosina, Sigma and Tamron."

This is what Sony is saying. I don't see the distinction you are proposing with your, "Sony doesn't say go do it." If Sony doesn't want to endorse the use of Leica lenses on Nex's, they shouldn't have said anything at all.

If Sony's saying I can use Leica lenses, but in fact they don't work well and even work better on older, considerably less expensive, cameras they made in the same line, I think most people are going to agree that their product is failing to meet advertised capabilities. I mean, was anyone on this forum saying, "Well, Sony never said that Nex-5N videos wouldn't include loud clicking noises." They said you could record video and audio, which means doing it reasonably well.

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

+1

They very directly promote 3rd party, including, by name, Leica lenses on the Nex-7 product page. If they were talking about Leica's R lenses, they should have been a lot more specific. I'd say it is their fault.

Neither company designed their products to be compatible with the other. The people that are "adapting" these products to each other are choosing to. Sony says third party lenses can be used. Sony doesn't say go do it.

-- hide signature --

Nex-5 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

 SQLGuy's gear list:SQLGuy's gear list
Canon PowerShot G9 Canon PowerShot S100 (2000) Canon EOS-1D Canon EOS 5D Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro +26 more
3N7HU51A5T
OP 3N7HU51A5T New Member • Posts: 16
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

SQLGuy wrote:

I included the link when I posted it before, but I guess I should post the actual text here:

"Accepts non-Sony lenses via adaptor

You can use the camera with a universe of lenses from Canon, Nikon, Leica, Olympus and others. The success of Sony’s NEX series, combined with the ultra-short 18 mm flange back distance has inspired third-party manufacturers to provide lens adaptors. In addition, Sony has disclosed the E Mount specification to Carl Zeiss, Cosina, Sigma and Tamron."

This is what Sony is saying. I don't see the distinction you are proposing with your, "Sony doesn't say go do it." If Sony doesn't want to endorse the use of Leica lenses on Nex's, they shouldn't have said anything at all.

Sony also says you can shoot at ISO 16,000 and you can. That doesn't mean that if you do it you should expect great IQ. There's not a footnote or disclaimer following the spec stating the image may suffer from horrible noise.

If Sony's saying I can use Leica lenses, but in fact they don't work well and even work better on older, considerably less expensive, cameras they made in the same line, I think most people are going to agree that their product is failing to meet advertised capabilities.

From what I've read here, 35mm and up should produce acceptable results for most people. Also from my reading here, the color shift can be corrected to a degree in post. So, IMO Sony's statement isn't unreasonable.

I mean, was anyone on this forum saying, "Well, Sony never said that Nex-5N videos wouldn't include loud clicking noises." They said you could record video and audio, which means doing it reasonably well.

This isn't an issue caused by users adapting third party gear.

 3N7HU51A5T's gear list:3N7HU51A5T's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm F4-5.6 R +1 more
SQLGuy
SQLGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. My expectation is that Sony should know a lot more about their cameras and what people want to use them for than the participants of this forum. Their statements, that, IMO, encourage the use of rangefinder lenses are at odds with their taking steps backwards (as appears to be the case) in support of these lenses. I can't chalk that up to accident or oversight... I expect them to know better.
--

Nex-5 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

 SQLGuy's gear list:SQLGuy's gear list
Canon PowerShot G9 Canon PowerShot S100 (2000) Canon EOS-1D Canon EOS 5D Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro +26 more
bbbinohio Contributing Member • Posts: 962
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

I'm waiting on a NEX7 and I really don't understand why it matters if third party glass works on the NEX bodies.

... From what I see The NEX7 does exactly what it was designed to do and it does it well. ...

Then you are not educated about the NEX-7. All the Sony glass (except the Alpha glass) sucks on that cam and everyone is saying so. Without 3rd party glass, that camera can't produce ANY really good images. And the Zeiss 24mm is a TOTAL BUST on that cam, and that's tragic for Sony as they needed that lens to be stellar.

The only things that is keeping the NEX-7 from being a legendary camera is that there is absolutely NO really good glass that works well on it. (again, without using the adapter, losing image stabilization and having a huge camera by utilizing the full sized Alpha lenses.)

Thanks!
Bob from Ohio

 bbbinohio's gear list:bbbinohio's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1 Nikon D800E Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF Fisheye-Nikkor 16mm f/2.8D +5 more
KM Legacy Senior Member • Posts: 1,955
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

SQLGuy wrote:

Sony has disclosed the E Mount specification to Carl Zeiss, Cosina, Sigma and Tamron."

Notice that they do not mention Leica, who is not known for producing lenses for cameras made by other mfrs. Sony's intent is that mfrs. who choose to do so can make lenses which suit the NEX, not that the NEX will be designed to work well with lenses made for rangefinder cameras. In the film era, rangefinder lenses had advantages over SLR ones, but digital sensors have lost that advantage, unless various measures are taken to compensate for skew rays.

I think people who want to use non-Sony lenses on the NEX should concentrate on SLR lenses, at least in the wide-angle range.

SQLGuy
SQLGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

If you're going to quote partial sentences to try to twist things to your perspective out of context, at least have the decency to put in a ... to show that you've dropped parts of the original statement.

In this case, I think your omitted "In addition,..." makes a significant difference in Sony's statement. I.e. In addition to you being able to use 3rd party Leica and other lenses on the Nex-7, Sony has shared the E-mount specification with a few companies in the hope that they'll make electronically-coupled lenses for the Nex series.

KM Legacy wrote:
SQLGuy wrote:

Sony has disclosed the E Mount specification to Carl Zeiss, Cosina, Sigma and Tamron."

Notice that they do not mention Leica, who is not known for producing lenses for cameras made by other mfrs. Sony's intent is that mfrs. who choose to do so can make lenses which suit the NEX, not that the NEX will be designed to work well with lenses made for rangefinder cameras. In the film era, rangefinder lenses had advantages over SLR ones, but digital sensors have lost that advantage, unless various measures are taken to compensate for skew rays.

I think people who want to use non-Sony lenses on the NEX should concentrate on SLR lenses, at least in the wide-angle range.

-- hide signature --

Nex-5 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

 SQLGuy's gear list:SQLGuy's gear list
Canon PowerShot G9 Canon PowerShot S100 (2000) Canon EOS-1D Canon EOS 5D Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro +26 more
headofdestiny Veteran Member • Posts: 9,226
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

KM Legacy wrote:
SQLGuy wrote:

Sony has disclosed the E Mount specification to Carl Zeiss, Cosina, Sigma and Tamron."

Notice that they do not mention Leica, who is not known for producing lenses for cameras made by other mfrs. Sony's intent is that mfrs. who choose to do so can make lenses which suit the NEX, not that the NEX will be designed to work well with lenses made for rangefinder cameras. In the film era, rangefinder lenses had advantages over SLR ones, but digital sensors have lost that advantage, unless various measures are taken to compensate for skew rays.

I think people who want to use non-Sony lenses on the NEX should concentrate on SLR lenses, at least in the wide-angle range.

As Sony e-mount lenses also have a short registration distance, shorter than Leica, it would have made sense to make the NEX-7 perform at least as well as the NEX-3C/5N in the corners, because it affects native lenses as well.

3N7HU51A5T
OP 3N7HU51A5T New Member • Posts: 16
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

bbbinohio wrote:

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

I'm waiting on a NEX7 and I really don't understand why it matters if third party glass works on the NEX bodies.

... From what I see The NEX7 does exactly what it was designed to do and it does it well. ...

Then you are not educated about the NEX-7. All the Sony glass (except the Alpha glass) sucks on that cam and everyone is saying so. Without 3rd party glass, that camera can't produce ANY really good images. And the Zeiss 24mm is a TOTAL BUST on that cam, and that's tragic for Sony as they needed that lens to be stellar.

The only things that is keeping the NEX-7 from being a legendary camera is that there is absolutely NO really good glass that works well on it. (again, without using the adapter, losing image stabilization and having a huge camera by utilizing the full sized Alpha lenses.)

Thanks!
Bob from Ohio

I'm smart enough to know you just pulled that entire statement out of your........... hat. On a serious note though, how educated I am concerning the NEX7 could be up for debate. I'd like to think I've done my homework. IMO, based on the sample images I've seen, the NEX7's output isn't in any way substandard to, or outclassed by the rest of the NEX line when used with native glass.

 3N7HU51A5T's gear list:3N7HU51A5T's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm F4-5.6 R +1 more
GodSpeaks
GodSpeaks Forum Pro • Posts: 14,395
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

From what I've read here, 35mm and up should produce acceptable results for most people. Also from my reading here, the color shift can be corrected to a degree in post. So, IMO Sony's statement isn't unreasonable.

The problems stems from Sony's lack of native E mount lenses. Many people, myself included, would find a 35mm focal length (~53mm equiv) too long.

Personally I would like 24, 28 and 35mm (35mm equiv) fairly small high quality focal length lenses available for the NEX. Sony only offers the mediocre 16mm (24mm equiv), and the anything but compact Zeiss 24mm (36mm equiv), so one must look to other options.

Just because you do not understand people's desires to use other lenses is irrelevant. I don't understand why people want superzooms! C'est la vie.

-- hide signature --

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

  • Rayna Butler

 GodSpeaks's gear list:GodSpeaks's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS5 Panasonic FZ1000 Sony Alpha DSLR-A850 Nikon D800E Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 +50 more
Aku Ankka
Aku Ankka Contributing Member • Posts: 591
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

I'm waiting on a NEX7 and I really don't understand why it matters if third party glass works on the NEX bodies.

From reading through a few threads I see some people are upset that the images from wide rangefinder glass won't perform well without extra post work. Is that a legitimate complaint? People were never guaranteed stellar images with third party glass.

You're missing the point. The complaint is not to say that Sony has done something immoral with the NEX. The complaint is just a statement of a possible (not necessarily fully proven at the moment) issue that the NEX-7 camera does not work as well with some M-mount lenses as many of us would like to. Why would this not be a legimate complaint? We complain because the camera does not fullfill one of our desires - we are not trashing the camera for this lacking operationality, but instead hoping for an improvement. For me personally M-mount compability is critical. Unless Sony provides me with a tool that works well with them, I won't buy their camera, no matter how great the sensor is (and it is great), but instead will wait for the competition to wake up and realize the strong desire in the market for such a camera.

Alupang
Alupang Senior Member • Posts: 2,889
Re: NEX7 and Rangefinder Wides

3N7HU51A5T wrote:

IMO, based on the sample images I've seen, the NEX7's output isn't in any way substandard to, or outclassed by the rest of the NEX line when used with native glass.

You are missing the whole point of the reply. The point was that all native lenses for the Nex "suck". So your counter is the Nex 7 performs as well with native lenses? Huh?

Not that I agree with the reply totally--I think the upcoming 50mm f1.8 OSS could be a keeper. That's one good native lens at least lol.

Greg Gebhardt
Greg Gebhardt Forum Pro • Posts: 25,613
I am not putting my Leica glass on the NEX7

The Sony 16mm will, for now, suit my needs very well for what I intend to use the NEX7 for.

My M9 is not that much larger than the NEX7 and if I want to use my Leica glass I would use my Leica. Can't see a lot of Leica users doing this except out of curiosity as these lenses are optimized for it's own hardware. I can see even less NEX owners buying Leica glass for their NEX
--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

 Greg Gebhardt's gear list:Greg Gebhardt's gear list
Canon G1 X III Leica Q2 Leica M9 Nikon D4 Sony a6600
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads