45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

Started Oct 11, 2011 | Discussions
mark1000 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

Hi guys,

After testing my 45-175's power OIS i have concluded its just not as good as the old mega OIS, i can actually get better images at the same shutter speeds with the OIS turned off as long as i follow the FL rule, all my tests have been at 175mm, 350mm EFL, did some more testing this morning to be sure, shot a round garden ornament on the fence, about 5 inches across @ about 20ft, let me just say that i don't normally pixel peep, but did for these tests and checked all the images @ 100%.

I shot 4 images @ 1/320, 1/400, 1/500 and 1/640, with OIS and without, the 1/320 showed clear double edges with OIS on, but none at all without OIS, all the other shots above 1/320 didn't show any double edges, but all of the OIS shots were softer than the images taken without OIS, i also got my wife to check the images for sharpness without her knowing what the test was for, she agreed with me except for the two 1/500 shots, she felt that they were to close to call.

After that i did the same test with my panny TZ10 P&S, @ 300mm EFL, the power OIS was fantastic on that camera, i shot over and over @ 1/100 and beside the extra noise you get with small sensor cameras they were all in focus and sharp, i did a couple of shots @ 1/100 with the G3 and 45-175 @ 350mm EFL with power OIS ON and they were horrible, unusable.

So what to do, i have the clicking OIS on video, and IMO a OIS system which is worse than the old one its replacing for still images, maybe i have a lemon, but on the other hand if i ask for a replacement i may get one thats optically inferior.

-- hide signature --

Mark.

Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: 45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

Depressing news Mark. But are you sure the OIS on your copy is working as it should? And did you shoot mode 1 or mode 2 or both?

Would be very interesting to hear what others who have had a chance to use the lens have to say about this. The prior reviews/user reports I have so far seen says the OIS works well (if they say anything about OIS at all) and it would very much surprise me if Panasonic had actually come up with a worse solution than the one they had while all the same touting it as better.

 Anders W's gear list:Anders W's gear list
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OP mark1000 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
Re: 45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

There isn't any mode 2 on a G3, if there was we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, mode 2 IMO is the best option, and i have used it exclusively on all my G system cameras from the G1 onward.

It may be faulty, don't forget i have the clicking sound from the OIS too, i don't know, but the images i took of the ornament @ shutter speeds of 1/320 right down to 1/100 were a mess, and this was a static object at 20ft.

Mark.

Anders W wrote:

Depressing news Mark. But are you sure the OIS on your copy is working as it should? And did you shoot mode 1 or mode 2 or both?

Would be very interesting to hear what others who have had a chance to use the lens have to say about this. The prior reviews/user reports I have so far seen says the OIS works well (if they say anything about OIS at all) and it would very much surprise me if Panasonic had actually come up with a worse solution than the one they had while all the same touting it as better.

-- hide signature --

Mark.

Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: 45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

mark1000 wrote:

There isn't any mode 2 on a G3, if there was we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, mode 2 IMO is the best option, and i have used it exclusively on all my G system cameras from the G1 onward.

Yes I know. But I thought you had a GH2 as well as a G3, and figured you might have used the GH2 for at least some of your test shots.

It may be faulty, don't forget i have the clicking sound from the OIS too, i don't know, but the images i took of the ornament @ shutter speeds of 1/320 right down to 1/100 were a mess, and this was a static object at 20ft.

Let's hope you are right that you have a faulty copy ... and get it replaced.

 Anders W's gear list:Anders W's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +28 more
OP mark1000 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
Re: 45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

Sorry mate, yep, i have a GH2, its getting dark now but i'll shoot the test tomorrow, i didn't bother because my intention is to use this lens exclusively on the G3, but your right it makes sense to do it on the GH2.

mark.

Anders W wrote:

mark1000 wrote:

There isn't any mode 2 on a G3, if there was we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, mode 2 IMO is the best option, and i have used it exclusively on all my G system cameras from the G1 onward.

Yes I know. But I thought you had a GH2 as well as a G3, and figured you might have used the GH2 for at least some of your test shots.

It may be faulty, don't forget i have the clicking sound from the OIS too, i don't know, but the images i took of the ornament @ shutter speeds of 1/320 right down to 1/100 were a mess, and this was a static object at 20ft.

Let's hope you are right that you have a faulty copy ... and get it replaced.

-- hide signature --

Mark.

kenw
kenw Veteran Member • Posts: 5,620
Re: 45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

Thanks for sharing your experience, and definitely let us know as you discover more. I'm seriously considering this lens.

I'd second Anders recommendation for trying it on a camera that supports OIS mode 2 just to see what happens when you get the chance. I always find mode 2 better for telephoto as it gives me more feedback to hold the camera steady and there is no chance of the IS hitting the stop during exposure. That said, if it works as badly as it is for you in mode 1 there is still something wrong - either with your copy or the design in general. The double image effect sounds particularly wrong.

Hope you are able to get it sorted out one way or another!
--
Ken W
See plan in profile for equipment list

 kenw's gear list:kenw's gear list
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normsmith Veteran Member • Posts: 3,372
Re: 45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

Mark - one has to hope that the design is spot on and that other possibilities are the cause.

a faulty copy sounds favourite, as the symptoms sound severe

BUT, I wonder whether the firmware upgrade that people had to do to their cameras is a potential source for the problem ...... though of course the same problem should effect everyone if that is so.

we need some people who also own the lens to chip in,

The point that Anders makes about mode 2 on the GH2 is an interesting avenue to explore, especially as I am starting to feel that the lack of it on the G3 does not help my 100 - 300mm.

thanks for raising the point, this is a lens that interests me.

OP mark1000 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
Couple of image samples

Both these two shots were at about 20ft in the same overcast light.

I had to shoot the 45-175 @ 1/400 to get the same result as the 45-200 @ 1/100

This is with a G3 and 45-175 shot at 350mm EFL 1/160

100% crop

This is with a GH2 and 45-200 shot at 350mm EFL 1/100

This clearly shows how the old OIS is better than the new power OIS

-- hide signature --

Mark.

Adventsam Veteran Member • Posts: 4,983
Re:Send it back Mark

Cant be right, well I hope not?

mark1000 wrote:

Hi guys,

After testing my 45-175's power OIS i have concluded its just not as good as the old mega OIS, i can actually get better images at the same shutter speeds with the OIS turned off as long as i follow the FL rule, all my tests have been at 175mm, 350mm EFL, did some more testing this morning to be sure, shot a round garden ornament on the fence, about 5 inches across @ about 20ft, let me just say that i don't normally pixel peep, but did for these tests and checked all the images @ 100%.

I shot 4 images @ 1/320, 1/400, 1/500 and 1/640, with OIS and without, the 1/320 showed clear double edges with OIS on, but none at all without OIS, all the other shots above 1/320 didn't show any double edges, but all of the OIS shots were softer than the images taken without OIS, i also got my wife to check the images for sharpness without her knowing what the test was for, she agreed with me except for the two 1/500 shots, she felt that they were to close to call.

After that i did the same test with my panny TZ10 P&S, @ 300mm EFL, the power OIS was fantastic on that camera, i shot over and over @ 1/100 and beside the extra noise you get with small sensor cameras they were all in focus and sharp, i did a couple of shots @ 1/100 with the G3 and 45-175 @ 350mm EFL with power OIS ON and they were horrible, unusable.

So what to do, i have the clicking OIS on video, and IMO a OIS system which is worse than the old one its replacing for still images, maybe i have a lemon, but on the other hand if i ask for a replacement i may get one thats optically inferior.

kenw
kenw Veteran Member • Posts: 5,620
Re: Couple of image samples

Wow, there is definitely something horribly wrong there. The 45-175 is even blurring so much - it almost looks like a perfect double image. It is as if the OIS executed a step function response mid-exposure.

If it is doing that repeatedly, or at least frequently, I would say the lens is bad period - send it back. There aren't many owners yet, but I haven't seen anyone complain of something this bad or even say it was worse than the 45-200 OIS in anyway. Looks like a lemon to me.
--
Ken W
See plan in profile for equipment list

 kenw's gear list:kenw's gear list
Sony RX1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Olympus E-M5 II Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +34 more
Jogger
Jogger Veteran Member • Posts: 8,441
isnt it optimised for video??

how does the power is compare in video? i think that is the whole point of this lens

mark1000 wrote:

Hi guys,

After testing my 45-175's power OIS i have concluded its just not as good as the old mega OIS, i can actually get better images at the same shutter speeds with the OIS turned off as long as i follow the FL rule, all my tests have been at 175mm, 350mm EFL, did some more testing this morning to be sure, shot a round garden ornament on the fence, about 5 inches across @ about 20ft, let me just say that i don't normally pixel peep, but did for these tests and checked all the images @ 100%.

I shot 4 images @ 1/320, 1/400, 1/500 and 1/640, with OIS and without, the 1/320 showed clear double edges with OIS on, but none at all without OIS, all the other shots above 1/320 didn't show any double edges, but all of the OIS shots were softer than the images taken without OIS, i also got my wife to check the images for sharpness without her knowing what the test was for, she agreed with me except for the two 1/500 shots, she felt that they were to close to call.

After that i did the same test with my panny TZ10 P&S, @ 300mm EFL, the power OIS was fantastic on that camera, i shot over and over @ 1/100 and beside the extra noise you get with small sensor cameras they were all in focus and sharp, i did a couple of shots @ 1/100 with the G3 and 45-175 @ 350mm EFL with power OIS ON and they were horrible, unusable.

So what to do, i have the clicking OIS on video, and IMO a OIS system which is worse than the old one its replacing for still images, maybe i have a lemon, but on the other hand if i ask for a replacement i may get one thats optically inferior.

 Jogger's gear list:Jogger's gear list
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OP mark1000 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
Re: isnt it optimised for video??

It works well enough, even if the OIS is optimised for video, are you saying you cant use it for stills.

Mark.

Jogger wrote:

how does the power is compare in video? i think that is the whole point of this lens

mark1000 wrote:

Hi guys,

After testing my 45-175's power OIS i have concluded its just not as good as the old mega OIS, i can actually get better images at the same shutter speeds with the OIS turned off as long as i follow the FL rule, all my tests have been at 175mm, 350mm EFL, did some more testing this morning to be sure, shot a round garden ornament on the fence, about 5 inches across @ about 20ft, let me just say that i don't normally pixel peep, but did for these tests and checked all the images @ 100%.

I shot 4 images @ 1/320, 1/400, 1/500 and 1/640, with OIS and without, the 1/320 showed clear double edges with OIS on, but none at all without OIS, all the other shots above 1/320 didn't show any double edges, but all of the OIS shots were softer than the images taken without OIS, i also got my wife to check the images for sharpness without her knowing what the test was for, she agreed with me except for the two 1/500 shots, she felt that they were to close to call.

After that i did the same test with my panny TZ10 P&S, @ 300mm EFL, the power OIS was fantastic on that camera, i shot over and over @ 1/100 and beside the extra noise you get with small sensor cameras they were all in focus and sharp, i did a couple of shots @ 1/100 with the G3 and 45-175 @ 350mm EFL with power OIS ON and they were horrible, unusable.

So what to do, i have the clicking OIS on video, and IMO a OIS system which is worse than the old one its replacing for still images, maybe i have a lemon, but on the other hand if i ask for a replacement i may get one thats optically inferior.

-- hide signature --

Mark.

Jogger
Jogger Veteran Member • Posts: 8,441
Re: isnt it optimised for video??

Maybe the IS is optimised for 1/50, 1/60, and 1/120 shutter speeds for video to get smooth video. As video lens, it wouldnt have to worry about 1/640, for example.

mark1000 wrote:

It works well enough, even if the OIS is optimised for video, are you saying you cant use it for stills.

Mark.

Jogger wrote:

how does the power is compare in video? i think that is the whole point of this lens

mark1000 wrote:

Hi guys,

After testing my 45-175's power OIS i have concluded its just not as good as the old mega OIS, i can actually get better images at the same shutter speeds with the OIS turned off as long as i follow the FL rule, all my tests have been at 175mm, 350mm EFL, did some more testing this morning to be sure, shot a round garden ornament on the fence, about 5 inches across @ about 20ft, let me just say that i don't normally pixel peep, but did for these tests and checked all the images @ 100%.

I shot 4 images @ 1/320, 1/400, 1/500 and 1/640, with OIS and without, the 1/320 showed clear double edges with OIS on, but none at all without OIS, all the other shots above 1/320 didn't show any double edges, but all of the OIS shots were softer than the images taken without OIS, i also got my wife to check the images for sharpness without her knowing what the test was for, she agreed with me except for the two 1/500 shots, she felt that they were to close to call.

After that i did the same test with my panny TZ10 P&S, @ 300mm EFL, the power OIS was fantastic on that camera, i shot over and over @ 1/100 and beside the extra noise you get with small sensor cameras they were all in focus and sharp, i did a couple of shots @ 1/100 with the G3 and 45-175 @ 350mm EFL with power OIS ON and they were horrible, unusable.

So what to do, i have the clicking OIS on video, and IMO a OIS system which is worse than the old one its replacing for still images, maybe i have a lemon, but on the other hand if i ask for a replacement i may get one thats optically inferior.

 Jogger's gear list:Jogger's gear list
Sony RX100 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Nikon D700 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR +4 more
greerd Contributing Member • Posts: 763
Re: Couple of image samples

kenw wrote:

Wow, there is definitely something horribly wrong there. The 45-175 is even blurring so much - it almost looks like a perfect double image. It is as if the OIS executed a step function response mid-exposure.

If it is doing that repeatedly, or at least frequently, I would say the lens is bad period - send it back. There aren't many owners yet, but I haven't seen anyone complain of something this bad or even say it was worse than the 45-200 OIS in anyway. Looks like a lemon to me.
--
Ken W
See plan in profile for equipment list

I would have to agree with Ken , if it was me, I'd send it back. Surely the replacement wouldn't perform like this.
--
Doug Greer

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mpgxsvcd Veteran Member • Posts: 8,094
Re: Couple of image samples

I bet the soon to be released firmware will resolve this issue.
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Tony Rogers Senior Member • Posts: 1,583
Re: Couple of image samples

Mark,

I'm pretty sure that I haven't seen this with mine but I'll do a test tomorrow to check. It may be that I haven't used a shutter speed this slow.

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Big Ga Forum Pro • Posts: 18,625
Re: 45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

mark1000 wrote:

Hi guys,

After testing my 45-175's power OIS i have concluded its just not as good as the old mega OIS,

I uploaded some more pics from the tests I did last week.

http://www.pbase.com/glj/mftlenses

Look at the two images with the grey steps in the background. I did these mainly to check out any difference in bokeh between the 45-175 and the 45-200. I took about three shots with each lens, and ALL of the 45-175 ones were slightly blurry compared to the 45-200 ones. If you download and look at the originals, you can see that while the lenses were shot wide open, the blurriness is actually a camera/lens shake issue, as you can see the distinct double strokes.

kenw
kenw Veteran Member • Posts: 5,620
Uh-oh...

Big Ga wrote:

Look at the two images with the grey steps in the background.

That looks like almost the identical issue. Also shot with a G3 I see.

Not good news - I'll be holding off on clicking the buy button until this gets sorted out.

I guess I'd be curious how it does on the GH2.
--
Ken W
See plan in profile for equipment list

 kenw's gear list:kenw's gear list
Sony RX1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Olympus E-M5 II Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +34 more
Big Ga Forum Pro • Posts: 18,625
Re: Uh-oh...

kenw wrote:

Big Ga wrote:

Look at the two images with the grey steps in the background.

That looks like almost the identical issue. Also shot with a G3 I see.

Not good news - I'll be holding off on clicking the buy button until this gets sorted out.

I guess I'd be curious how it does on the GH2.

Well, I will add that I'm fairly sure that I've taken other shots at other focal lengths and/or other shutter speeds, and the OIS seems to work fine.

Also .... I'm pretty sure that I've seen almost exactly the same strange behaviour from the 45-200 as well!!! Sometimes it works, sometimes it makes things worse. I just haven't paid that much attention before to try and work out when it screws up (although I have a feeling its mainly at the long end, and thus I (and maybe a lot of other people) think the 45-200 is not particularly brilliant optically at the long end, but much of the time, it might be an OIS issue, as I have the feeling at some focus distances and at 200mm I have indeed had good results - probably when I had OIS off and I was jamming the camera/lens up against something for stability)

ANAYV Forum Pro • Posts: 18,012
Re: 45-175 power OIS, not impressed at all.

mark1000 wrote:

.... After that i did the same test with my panny TZ10 P&S, @ 300mm EFL, the power OIS was fantastic on that camera, i shot over and over @ 1/100 and beside the extra noise you get with small sensor cameras they were all in focus and sharp, i did a couple of shots @ 1/100 with the G3 and 45-175 @ 350mm EFL with power OIS ON and they were horrible, unusable.

Don't compare any of these lenses , to Panny's smaller sensored P&S camera's.

I've been shooting with them, since 2003! (TZ1/3/5/7...FZ10/20/30/50/5/7/8/18/35/ZR1/LX3

Can shoot at 420mm( with those with that much zoom) and need only 1/60 shutter speed (for still subjects) !

My 14 to 42mm and 45 to 200mm, can't hold a candle to the many other small sensor panny 's.

And that's with a GH2 body , and mode 2 !

ANAYV

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