Yikes! The rumored Nikon D800.

Started Oct 5, 2011 | Discussions
droid3000
droid3000 Regular Member • Posts: 178
Re: Yikes! The rumored Nikon D800.

Remember that you skipped a great camera from Canon: 5D MKII

Anyway, the sad thing is that you will never being able to process your pics as good as with your old 5D files... NEVER

Jokes aside, you dont need a faster AF or more DR or MP to take great pics, but hopefully the new 5DIII will give you this and maybe more (useful 4K video? hehehe )
M

OP Great Bustard Forum Pro • Posts: 42,060
Equipment vs photographer

joger wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

I want to get better photos than I'm currently getting and to be able to expand the range of circumstances where I can capture a photo.

so your equipment is taking the pictures and not you

Absolutely. Just as a calculator makes the calculations, and not me. I merely tell the equipment what to do -- the more limited the equipment, the less I can do with it and/or the more difficult it is to get what I want done.

Else, as I said in a post further up, I'd just stick with my camera phone. And, to be honest, I've seen more than a few decent pics from camera phones.

For example, my longest lens is 200mm. I can do the same thing as someone with a 400mm lens, but just not as well, and not as conveniently. That doesn't mean that a person who "needs" 400mm should make do with a 200mm lens.

mattr Veteran Member • Posts: 3,530
Re: Well, I've lusted over Nikon's 14-24 but was never keen ...

J A K wrote:

about the idea of purchasing an adapter for a Canon body. If your source is correct then this might be the time to consider a Nikon body and then pick up the 14-24 for those occasional very wide angle landscapes.

Yes, this is a lens Canon seems to be unable to match. And don't forget that Nikon offers some updated normal primes while Canon refuses to do so. I would immediately order the Nikon AF-S 50/1.8 together with a full frame Nikon body.

One year ago I lost my 5D2 and all lenses. I decided to get a 60D with a few lenses and wait for the next full frame model before replacing the 5D2. If a 36 MP D800 materializes and Canon has no good answer, I will likely buy the Nikon. I could sell my Canon 24mm TS-E II to pay for the Nikon 14-24...

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 20,676
Re: Yikes! The rumored Nikon D800.

joger wrote:

The problems is always behind the camera

Then you can get buy with a disposable film camera.

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John

dkyl Contributing Member • Posts: 807
Re: Amazing specs - price low?

All good in terms of speed but it won't be great in terms of coverage.

I'm not that familiar with the placement of the 7D AF points but even if it goes all the way to the edge of frame on APS-C, it's no where near the edge on FF.

That's one of the few complaints I have about a D700. Too narrow an AF point coverage.
Why not just stick the 1-series AF in the 5D3.

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Daniel Clune
Daniel Clune Veteran Member • Posts: 3,453
Re: Careful, Part II Well

If Nikon can put there top of the line focus plus 36 meg FF with weather sealing for 4 grand then why cant Canon? Nikon too has a top of the line D3x . If canon stays with the same lower end focus or even the 7D focus which would be pathetic on a FF sensor (remember 7D focus covers allot more area because of 1.6 sensor) then off to Nikon I finally go. I think many many others will do the same.

Only people that wont are heavily invested in canon lenses. With canon lens prices going way up and are now more expensive than Nikons equivalent lenses not much reason to stay other than a few more F4 lenses from canon. Guess will see in the next 6 months or so.

Skip M wrote:

amobi wrote:

These Fanboys are already begging Canon to put 7D AF on the next 5DIII. What a shame.

MM1 wrote:

thelensmeister wrote:

id love nikon to release this cause then surely Canon would HAVE to put the AF techonlogy of the 1d series into the 5d successor (or give us a 3D).

Or maybe they won't HAVE to. I'm afraid they will try to get away with including 7D AF (which has unlikely roots in 1D AF technology), and the fanboys will still jump with joy and rave about it. 13+ years after 45pt AF was designed.

I am not a fanboy, but I do recognize reality. The AF of the 7D would be a major improvement on the 5D, (heck, the AF of the 60D would be an improvement!) and, frankly, if Canon were to put everything you guys want in a 5D mkIII, you'd have a 1D mkIV. There's no way Canon will do that, since it would pirate sales from a much higher priced camera or they will have to charge as much for a 5D as they do a 1Ds. You wouldn't like the latter, would you? I mean, if they put the same sensor, the same AF and the same environmental sealing (the things I've read demanded here on this forum) what's the diferentiation? A smaller body? So, you want all of the top level stuff in a package that's not as big, leaving less room in which to stuff circuitry. Ya'll don't want much, do you?

The EOS3 of film days was an abberation, and I don't think that Canon is keen to repeat it. A camera with a higher frame rate, the same AF, eye controlled focus (which the 1v didn't have) in a body sealed to the levels of the 1v's predecessor, the 1n must surely have cut into the 1v sales in a major way. Why buy a 1v? For the downloadable file info? A few more custom functions? The EOS3 was far closer in spec to the 1 series of the day than any of its progenitors, like the A2/E/EOS5 or EOS10s were to the 1n and 1, respectively. On the other hand, the EOS5/A2/E and the 3 debuted the AF of the succeeding 1 series. So, who really knows.

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joger
joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,900
Re: Yikes! The rumored Nikon D800.

John Sheehy wrote:

joger wrote:

The problems is always behind the camera

Then you can get buy with a disposable film camera.

could you please post a link to a gallery of your images or post some here to juudge the quality of images we are a talking about?

here's one of mine with the crappy 5D II

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isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein

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joger
joger Veteran Member • Posts: 4,900
Re: Equipment vs photographer

Great Bustard wrote:

joger wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

I want to get better photos than I'm currently getting and to be able to expand the range of circumstances where I can capture a photo.

so your equipment is taking the pictures and not you

Absolutely.

just a quick one

you can either climb a mountain (which I don't do because I am deeply unfit) or you can drive with your car to the top and have a cappuccino instead

doe it make a difference - of course!! One time you do it with a good pair of shoes and one time you do it with a good set of tires

I agree with the lenses - for the rest I am lost - please post some of your best images and give me an idea which quality level we are talking about?
--
isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein

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Skip M Veteran Member • Posts: 7,174
Re: Careful, Part II Well

Daniel Clune wrote:

If Nikon can put there top of the line focus plus 36 meg FF with weather sealing for 4 grand then why cant Canon? Nikon too has a top of the line D3x . If canon stays with the same lower end focus or even the 7D focus which would be pathetic on a FF sensor (remember 7D focus covers allot more area because of 1.6 sensor) then off to Nikon I finally go. I think many many others will do the same.

I wonder how many D3 sales Nikon loses to their own cameras? They end up competing with themselves. I have a feeling that Nikon uses the top line AF because it costs less to do so than it does to develope a separate one for the second tier bodies. Canon can afford to do so.

I think that "pathetic" is too strong a word. Less than desirable, at least for some, but not unexpected. What are you going to do with 45 points? Too many to select individually, too many to let them select themselves, zone selection is the only practical way to do it, I think.

Only people that wont are heavily invested in canon lenses. With canon lens prices going way up and are now more expensive than Nikons equivalent lenses not much reason to stay other than a few more F4 lenses from canon. Guess will see in the next 6 months or so.

Other people who will stick with Canon are ones who prefer the ergonomics of Canon, or people who prefer features that Canon adds to the 5d mkII successor. What are you going to do if Canon adds an articulated LCD, a better sensor than Nikon's (not saying they will, but what if) and a higher frame rate, but sticks with the 7D's AF? Still going to sell all your Canon stuff and buy a "D800?"

Skip M wrote:

amobi wrote:

These Fanboys are already begging Canon to put 7D AF on the next 5DIII. What a shame.

MM1 wrote:

thelensmeister wrote:

id love nikon to release this cause then surely Canon would HAVE to put the AF techonlogy of the 1d series into the 5d successor (or give us a 3D).

Or maybe they won't HAVE to. I'm afraid they will try to get away with including 7D AF (which has unlikely roots in 1D AF technology), and the fanboys will still jump with joy and rave about it. 13+ years after 45pt AF was designed.

I am not a fanboy, but I do recognize reality. The AF of the 7D would be a major improvement on the 5D, (heck, the AF of the 60D would be an improvement!) and, frankly, if Canon were to put everything you guys want in a 5D mkIII, you'd have a 1D mkIV. There's no way Canon will do that, since it would pirate sales from a much higher priced camera or they will have to charge as much for a 5D as they do a 1Ds. You wouldn't like the latter, would you? I mean, if they put the same sensor, the same AF and the same environmental sealing (the things I've read demanded here on this forum) what's the diferentiation? A smaller body? So, you want all of the top level stuff in a package that's not as big, leaving less room in which to stuff circuitry. Ya'll don't want much, do you?

The EOS3 of film days was an abberation, and I don't think that Canon is keen to repeat it. A camera with a higher frame rate, the same AF, eye controlled focus (which the 1v didn't have) in a body sealed to the levels of the 1v's predecessor, the 1n must surely have cut into the 1v sales in a major way. Why buy a 1v? For the downloadable file info? A few more custom functions? The EOS3 was far closer in spec to the 1 series of the day than any of its progenitors, like the A2/E/EOS5 or EOS10s were to the 1n and 1, respectively. On the other hand, the EOS5/A2/E and the 3 debuted the AF of the succeeding 1 series. So, who really knows.

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John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 20,676
Re: Yikes! The rumored Nikon D800.

joger wrote:

John Sheehy wrote:

joger wrote:

The problems is always behind the camera

Then you can get buy with a disposable film camera.

could you please post a link to a gallery of your images or post some here to juudge the quality of images we are a talking about?

Thanks for changing the subject and providing a smokescreen!

here's one of mine with the crappy 5D II

You haven't stressed the 5D2 here in a situation where it craps out. The shot requires little in DR, and little in the way of color discrimination, as the entire vehicle does not have much color variation, with little chance for a problem hue to pop up (hey, we have no idea of what the actual hue of this car is, but thanks for playing!). But I'm sure that being such a great photographer as you are, this photo would have come out just as well with a disposable ISO 800 film camera, or a 1.3MP compact from 1999, because after all, the problem is ALWAYS behind the camera, if there is any problem.

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John

pekelnik Regular Member • Posts: 146
Re: Careful, Part II

Skip M wrote:

The EOS3 of film days was an abberation, and I don't think that Canon is keen to repeat it. A camera with a higher frame rate, the same AF, eye controlled focus (which the 1v didn't have) in a body sealed to the levels of the 1v's predecessor, the 1n must surely have cut into the 1v sales in a major way. Why buy a 1v? For the downloadable file info? A few more custom functions? The EOS3 was far closer in spec to the 1 series of the day than any of its progenitors, like the A2/E/EOS5 or EOS10s were to the 1n and 1, respectively. On the other hand, the EOS5/A2/E and the 3 debuted the AF of the succeeding 1 series. So, who really knows.

1v actually has higher framerate than 3, 7 vs 10 fps (both with booster).

It is also better weather sealed (better than the 5dm2). I believe the principal reason for the EOS 3 was to test the new technology. Eye-control focus was obviously a no-go. And I think 1v was definitely geared towards the sports shooter. I actually have one and it is a very nice camera.

willyhill Regular Member • Posts: 277
Wrong Forum

Wrong forum or wrong Canon user

Tim O'Connor
Tim O'Connor Veteran Member • Posts: 5,220
Re: Amazing specs - price low?

dkyl wrote:

All good in terms of speed but it won't be great in terms of coverage.

I'm not that familiar with the placement of the 7D AF points but even if it goes all the way to the edge of frame on APS-C, it's no where near the edge on FF.

That's one of the few complaints I have about a D700. Too narrow an AF point coverage.
Why not just stick the 1-series AF in the 5D3.

Well you have a point - I was assuming that Canon would 'rejig' the AF point placement, rather than use the same one from the 7D.

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Canon 7D
FujiFilm F20

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ScottyNV Veteran Member • Posts: 3,889
I have been predicting a 38mp Canon for the last 2 years.

my crystal ball says: 4fps, full 16 bit colour depth, a wider range of ISO .... 25-102000, even better video... 98% VF, slightly quicker blackout and shutter release.. 120ms/ 60ms.., incremental rather than another game-changer like the original 5D.

S,
--
beam me up captain, there's no intelligent life down here!

MoreorLess Veteran Member • Posts: 4,585
Re: D800=36 MPs is akin to the iPhone5 rumors plus another upside

Rick Knepper wrote:

Partial truth. That there will be some sort of FF announcement on Oct 26th seems plausible - a D800 with 36 MPs seems not. If the rumor was about a suspected D4 version, the rumor would be believable. So, I think the specs and the camera names have become jumbled in the murkiness of rumorville.

If this camera, whatever it is called, does have 36 MP, D3x prices will drop like a rock and that is one helluva camera for us landscapers who may have maxed out their needs at 24 MPs.

Nikon do have a history of killing off sales of older models by outspecing them with newer lower end models.

If you look at the different lines the D700 does seem more in need of replacement to me. Are D3x users really chomping at the bit to upgrade? I'd guess not where as mid range FF buyers havent had a high megapixel option before now.

MM1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,504
Re: Careful, Part II

Skip M wrote:

amobi wrote:

These Fanboys are already begging Canon to put 7D AF on the next 5DIII. What a shame.

MM1 wrote:

thelensmeister wrote:

id love nikon to release this cause then surely Canon would HAVE to put the AF techonlogy of the 1d series into the 5d successor (or give us a 3D).

Or maybe they won't HAVE to. I'm afraid they will try to get away with including 7D AF (which has unlikely roots in 1D AF technology), and the fanboys will still jump with joy and rave about it. 13+ years after 45pt AF was designed.

I am not a fanboy, but I do recognize reality. The AF of the 7D would be a major improvement on the 5D, (heck, the AF of the 60D would be an improvement!)

Yes, compared to ye olde autofocuse of 5D2, that would be an improvement. But compared to 13+ yr old EOS-3? It's still lame.

and, frankly, if Canon were to put everything you guys want in a 5D mkIII,

As for me personally , I could live with old 5D as-is, if the AF was on the 1D Mk2 level. Everything else unchanged (perhaps the mirror could be glued better ;-)) How is this a 1D4?

you'd have a 1D mkIV. There's no way Canon will do that, since it would pirate sales from a much higher priced camera or they will have to charge as much for a 5D as they do a 1Ds. You wouldn't like the latter, would you?

For me it's irrelevant - I didn't buy 5D2 anyway, because of the AF.

I mean, if they put the same sensor, the same AF and the same environmental sealing (the things I've read demanded here on this forum) what's the diferentiation?

FPS? 100% viewfinder constructed with the shutting lever? Better battery life? Dual slots? Sturdy body? Wifi built-in?

A smaller body? So, you want all of the top level stuff in a package that's not as big, leaving less room in which to stuff circuitry. Ya'll don't want much, do you?

All the circuitry apart from all sensors (AF, AE, imager) is subject to Moore's law and getting smaller and more energy efficient every year.

The EOS3 of film days was an abberation, and I don't think that Canon is keen to repeat it. A camera with a higher frame rate, the same AF, eye controlled focus (which the 1v didn't have) in a body sealed to the levels of the 1v's predecessor, the 1n must surely have cut into the 1v sales in a major way.

The time is different now. For example, the AF in current 1D4 is 2 generations newer than the AF from EOS-3 to 1DMk2N era. Why not use the first 45pt AF type? There would be still enough stuff about which the marketing could babble its tongue off: 38 vs 7 cross sensors, yadda yadda yadda...

Also, competition is doing something too, somehow they can create a camera which resembles the EOS-3 package without asking 1Ds premium for it.

Why buy a 1v? For the downloadable file info? A few more custom functions? The EOS3 was far closer in spec to the 1 series of the day than any of its progenitors, like the A2/E/EOS5 or EOS10s were to the 1n and 1, respectively. On the other hand, the EOS5/A2/E and the 3 debuted the AF of the succeeding 1 series. So, who really knows.

As I said, times are different now.

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Cheers,
Martin

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sparkling elk
sparkling elk Contributing Member • Posts: 829
Re: Yikes! The rumored Nikon D800.

the AA filter and reduced shadow noise @ higher resolution i can buy. but does it mean that 3x mp on FF will become a necessary standard?

i have seen the images from my (sold) 21mp-5D2 and from my brother's 12mp-D3s. shadow noise of the nikon is better. shadow noise on my 1D4 files is also better.

simply the fact that the pixel pitch of the D3s is much bigger than on the D3x sensor makes the 12mp D3s a much better low light camera. thats what i want...

thank you for your comment. it makes me understand that there is more than just pixel size. lets see if there will be futur cameras with a special spec for low light and how much resolution they will have.

the D3s already has such a spec.
who would like such a thing from canon (lets say with 16 or 20mp) ?

bobn2 wrote:

sparkling elk wrote:

tests between D3s and D3x show a better lowlight performance. means: better high iso IQ. i suspected that the pixel size is playing a major role, but with your remark about i am not sure that this is all. will check that.

Unless Nikon and Sony give you access to their design information for the two sensors, or you spend a few thousand dollars on the chipworks reports, you're not going to find out for certain one way or the other. All you can do is look at the theory and the trends. Neither shows a reduction in low light performance as you go to smaller pixels.

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Skip M Veteran Member • Posts: 7,174
Re: Careful, Part II

pekelnik wrote:

Skip M wrote:

The EOS3 of film days was an abberation, and I don't think that Canon is keen to repeat it. A camera with a higher frame rate, the same AF, eye controlled focus (which the 1v didn't have) in a body sealed to the levels of the 1v's predecessor, the 1n must surely have cut into the 1v sales in a major way. Why buy a 1v? For the downloadable file info? A few more custom functions? The EOS3 was far closer in spec to the 1 series of the day than any of its progenitors, like the A2/E/EOS5 or EOS10s were to the 1n and 1, respectively. On the other hand, the EOS5/A2/E and the 3 debuted the AF of the succeeding 1 series. So, who really knows.

1v actually has higher framerate than 3, 7 vs 10 fps (both with booster).

IIRC, the base camera, w/o boost, the 3 was 5fps, the 1v was 4, but i could have been mis-remembering. I remember the 1v boosted to 10, though and the 3 to 8.

It is also better weather sealed (better than the 5dm2). I believe the principal reason for the EOS 3 was to test the new technology. Eye-control focus was obviously a no-go. And I think 1v was definitely geared towards the sports shooter. I actually have one and it is a very nice camera.

Canon at the time said the 3 had the same sealing as the 1n, and also, later, said the 5D mkII was sealed to the same level. ECF was introduced in the EOS5/A2E, but only on the horizontal. For some reason, Canon decided to put a little ball bearing in there to disable ECF when you turned the camera to vertical. It could be easily removed, but it was odd.

Dylthedog Contributing Member • Posts: 844
Doesn't that out-resolve many lenses?

Great Bustard wrote:

The rumor is a 4FPS camera with a 36MP Sony Exmor FX sensor using the D7000 pixel design. I hope Canon will compete well with the 5D3, 'cause I can't afford to switch, I like my lenses, and that sensor is pretty much exactly what the doctor ordered (along with Nikon's famous AF).

That's quite a jump in MP - won't that stretch the glass in use whether it's the (rumoured) Nikon or a new Canon?

If it does it will be interesting to see where things go next, the MP will finally be over

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Daniel Clune
Daniel Clune Veteran Member • Posts: 3,453
Re: Careful, Part II Well

Skip M wrote:

I think that "pathetic" is too strong a word. Less than desirable, at least for some, but not unexpected. What are you going to do with 45 points? Too many to select individually, too many to let them select themselves, zone selection is the only practical way to do it, I think.

Its not that the 7D focus isnt very good on a 1.6 crop but on a full frame the points are way to clustered around center. That "would" be pathetic focus system on a FF sensor. Iam not saying you need 45 but at least say 30 and better spread around.

So just dumping the 7D focus module into a new 5D would be pathetic. Its focus points are way to centered for FF. So pathetic it is in my opinion. Lets hope canon doesnt do that. Maybe even funnyer would be they dont change focus system at all.

Other people who will stick with Canon are ones who prefer the ergonomics of Canon, or people who prefer features that Canon adds to the 5d mkII successor. What are you going to do if Canon adds an articulated LCD, a better sensor than Nikon's (not saying they will, but what if) and a higher frame rate, but sticks with the 7D's AF? Still going to sell all your Canon stuff and buy a "D800?"

Well a better sensor would be very nice but right now it looks like canon is having trouble to keep up with Nikon/sony sensor tech let alone be better. But of course its possable will have to wait and see.

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