Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

Started Oct 4, 2011 | Discussions
PaulRivers Veteran Member • Posts: 7,420
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

archiebald wrote:

PaulRivers wrote:

archiebald wrote:

If you are only interested in snapshots then by all means, any camera phone will do but if you are at all interested in the technical aspects of photography and trying to achieve something worth looking at then you need a proper camera.

Ok, I'm sorry, but the implication that you need a proper camera for to "achieve something worth looking at" is a bunch of total B.S. There's plenty of times when you're having a good time, maybe at your anniversary, on a date, doing something fun unexpectedly, or just plain want to take a pic to rub in the face of your friends who didn't come with you that you can get a pic who's "worth looking at" value is not dependent at all on whether you could squeeze some more pixels of resolution into the picture.

What you have described in that paragraph is the essence of a snapshot, not photography. (and is in no way related to pixel count)

But what you're saying in trying to say that all snapshots are "not worth looking at" is related to snobbery, not photography.

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: 4s samples

JeffNew wrote:

I think P&S got trouble now.

nice images for a phone maybe, but I guess a $25 point-and-shoot camera can provide better image quality and easier handling. The noise is horrible IMHO (look at the sample image with the blue sky ...), and most images look very flat. It will do for small internet pictures or 4x6" prints where image quality is not important, but that's about it. No competition for real cameras (yet).

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

Archiver wrote:

As great as the 4s' photos look

even in good light some of the shots, like the mountainscape with blue sky, is extremely noisy. No competition for any decent compact camera.

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

olyflyer wrote:

I have had cameras in my phones for a few years now but have not seen any image worth saving yet out of any of them, regardless who is using them.

I have seen some very nice photography projects done entirely with cameraphones, already a few years ago. Some in books, or blown up to poster size. But this was 'Art', not something one would judge only by the technical quality of the images.

People were making great images with 2 Megapixel camera's 10-15 years ago, and the first photographers where making some great images with cameras that produced much blurrier and noisier images than the iPhone 4S. A real artist can produce something worthwile with almost any tool.

But in general of course, cameraphones are geared for shapshots and not for serious photography. So what comes out will usually be a snapshot at best.

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Or Nokia N8...

yes, those images are VERY impressive and in a different league than iPhone 4S samples. Judging from those N8 examples I would consider it at least on par with cheaper compacts (probably thanks to very good processing, exposure, whitebalance etc).

JackM
JackM Veteran Member • Posts: 8,463
Re: Or Nokia N8...

technic wrote:

yes, those images are VERY impressive and in a different league than iPhone 4S samples. Judging from those N8 examples I would consider it at least on par with cheaper compacts (probably thanks to very good processing, exposure, whitebalance etc).

I think you forgot to also say composition, content, etc, in other words, the photographer .

I think you'd have a hard time telling those N8 images apart from almost any camera at print sizes up to 8x10.

Of course, low light people shots and action samples are conspicuously absent. Are these cameras usable above say ISO 400?

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technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

John.Laninga wrote:

Note that I'm not saying that the iPhone will take better images than the DSLR, or even the S95, there will remain a place for high end cameras. But for daily use the photography field is shifting-- again.

It depends on 'daily use'. I agree with you that the best camera is the one you have with you, or the one that will get the shot.

Sometimes that can be a compact, because within the time one has removed the DSLR from its bag, and maybe mounted a different lens, the opportunity may be gone (despite the maybe 0.5 sec time the DSLR needs to focus and get the shot). That's why I'm looking for a compact like the S100 - not for snapshots where image quality is not important, but for when photographic moments are unexpected and you need to act quickly.

e.g. I often see interesting scenes or beautiful lighting while walking around in the city, but those moments are fleeting. If you don't have the DSLR hanging around your neck (or on your wrist strap) you will be too late. A compact that you can carry always and grab quickly is better for this. For specific shooting where one can prepare, select the right gear etc., of course the DSLR will win.

As for cameraphones, I would not use such a iPhone 4S for photography because I find the image quality insufficient (judging from the samples: too noisy, flat, poor colours etc.). Maybe I could use it for 'documentation' like others are doing - for images where IQ is totally irrelevant, but not for 'real' photographs. But the images from the Nokia N8 make me think again

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Or Nokia N8...

JackM wrote:

technic wrote:

yes, those images are VERY impressive and in a different league than iPhone 4S samples. Judging from those N8 examples I would consider it at least on par with cheaper compacts (probably thanks to very good processing, exposure, whitebalance etc).

I think you forgot to also say composition, content, etc, in other words, the photographer .

yes, definitely talented photographer.

I think you'd have a hard time telling those N8 images apart from almost any camera at print sizes up to 8x10.

I have read about some big magazines that used N8 images inside or even on the cover. So the quality is pretty good, even if a pro can easily spot the difference.

Of course, low light and action samples are conspicuously absent. Are these cameras usable above say ISO 400?

I haven't investigated them but maybe I should. I cannot imagine they do a good job at low light levels or for fast action. Probably some of them are close to small sensor compacts now in quality, as some of the cameraphones use same size sensor as in small(est) compacts.

kelpdiver Veteran Member • Posts: 3,624
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

John.Laninga wrote:

I think that many are missing the point of the whole question. It in't how "good" the picture of the 4S vs the S100, it is the image you take.

In my opinion, and also stated by others, there is a fundamental shift in photography. Just like from B&W to color, then film to digital, now we're seeing the camera in a totally different light -- as an always-with-you communications tool. And the iPhone does this better than the S95.

so there's a fundamental shift towards craptastic photography? Until a couple years ago when phones started getting cameras that at least claimed to be on par with 5 year old compacts, digitals were making people better photographers. Unlimited 'film' and lcd playback let people see their mistakes and immediately correct them. But now, yes, we are seeing a flood of people to use a convenient, if terribly slow and unsharp camera tool.

Funny thing is - the iphone is a poor phone and poor camera. It's a great itouch, on the other hand.

John.Laninga
OP John.Laninga Senior Member • Posts: 2,368
Re: It seems like your mind was already set up...

I still have an S100 on pre-order, and no iPhone on order, so I don't think my mind is made up. I find that the responses here help me understand the options better. For example, I never heard of the N8 and I am quite impressed with it.

Sorry if I came across that I was insulting someone, far from it. Most of the responses are proving valuable and are giving me new viewpoints. After all, learning is part of the fun of photography.

Isn't it great we can all have our own opinions and buy what we like?

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olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 25,962
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

technic wrote:

A real artist can produce something worthwile with almost any tool.

...but this is nonsense. Most great artists would never touch or use any other tool than the best one for their purpose or for their kind of art. They would not know what to do with a 4s or any other phone cam.

Otherwise there is nothing of what you say contradicts what I have said.

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archiebald Senior Member • Posts: 1,499
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

PaulRivers wrote:

archiebald wrote:

PaulRivers wrote:

archiebald wrote:

If you are only interested in snapshots then by all means, any camera phone will do but if you are at all interested in the technical aspects of photography and trying to achieve something worth looking at then you need a proper camera.

Ok, I'm sorry, but the implication that you need a proper camera for to "achieve something worth looking at" is a bunch of total B.S. There's plenty of times when you're having a good time, maybe at your anniversary, on a date, doing something fun unexpectedly, or just plain want to take a pic to rub in the face of your friends who didn't come with you that you can get a pic who's "worth looking at" value is not dependent at all on whether you could squeeze some more pixels of resolution into the picture.

What you have described in that paragraph is the essence of a snapshot, not photography. (and is in no way related to pixel count)

But what you're saying in trying to say that all snapshots are "not worth looking at" is related to snobbery, not photography.

Not at all. Snapshots are for personal memories, whereas photographs taken by photographers are art. They are two entirely different things.

I certainly don't want to sit on my Uncle's sofa while he shows me all his holiday snapshots. They may be interesting to him personally, but him alone.

archiebald Senior Member • Posts: 1,499
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

kelpdiver wrote:

John.Laninga wrote:

I think that many are missing the point of the whole question. It in't how "good" the picture of the 4S vs the S100, it is the image you take.

In my opinion, and also stated by others, there is a fundamental shift in photography. Just like from B&W to color, then film to digital, now we're seeing the camera in a totally different light -- as an always-with-you communications tool. And the iPhone does this better than the S95.

so there's a fundamental shift towards craptastic photography? Until a couple years ago when phones started getting cameras that at least claimed to be on par with 5 year old compacts, digitals were making people better photographers. Unlimited 'film' and lcd playback let people see their mistakes and immediately correct them. But now, yes, we are seeing a flood of people to use a convenient, if terribly slow and unsharp camera tool.

Funny thing is - the iphone is a poor phone and poor camera. It's a great itouch, on the other hand.

Well said!!

dgehrke Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

Seems mostly a debate about convenience. If my truck is broken down miles from nowhere I'd be more than happy to fix it with whatever tools I have available. My expensive set at home would be of no value. Would be a pity to miss any photo opportunity for lack of a camera. I own a 5DII, S90, and an iPhone and gladly take whatever I get.

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Jerra Junior Member • Posts: 44
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

I have to agree, just have a look at this Canon S100-shot:

The iPhone 4S just can't hold up against this.

technic wrote:

Archiver wrote:

As great as the 4s' photos look

even in good light some of the shots, like the mountainscape with blue sky, is extremely noisy. No competition for any decent compact camera.

olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 25,962
That's an impressive image

Very beautiful, nice light and fine in every way except one small thing...

...you should have twisted the image to the right orientation. It is in landscape mode which is wrong.

Yes, I agree, no phone cam can take such image. If nothing else, the noise would be horrible and would definitely not be as pleasing as this one is at this size.

Thank you for sharing this as an excellent example of what the camera can do.

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olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 25,962
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

dgehrke wrote:

Seems mostly a debate about convenience.

Convenience is a personal experience. What is convenient for you may not be convenient for me. It is however undisputable that any phone camera is smaller than any camera plus a phone would be. No one can argue that.

If my truck is broken down miles from nowhere I'd be more than happy to fix it with whatever tools I have available.

Being well prepared is better than getting stuck with a broken down truck in the middle of nowhere and only have a small screwdriver with you, designed for repairing watches. There are occasions when you should realize that it is a waste of time to even try. That's called life experience, or knowledge.

My expensive set at home would be of no value.

Quite the opposite, it is at home you need to learn and prepare, not in the middle of nowhere, where the truck broke down. It is based on that experience you should decide what to do and what not to do and what is pointless even to try.

Would be a pity to miss any photo opportunity for lack of a camera.

I disagree, unless it is a "Breaking news" million dollar photo.

I own a 5DII, S90, and an iPhone and gladly take whatever I get.

I own a D300s, a G10 and several other cameras. I also own a Nokia N95. It is a very good cell phone camera but never gets used because I have not yet found myself in the middle of a "Breaking news" million dollar photo opportunity. Maybe one day...

…but we are all different.

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technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

olyflyer wrote:

technic wrote:

A real artist can produce something worthwile with almost any tool.

...but this is nonsense. Most great artists would never touch or use any other tool than the best one for their purpose or for their kind of art. They would not know what to do with a 4s or any other phone cam.

On of the projects that I mentioned was organised by a well known museum, and definitely not just as a publicity stunt. I won't ramble about how limitations can produce great art; sometimes a very simple tool is the best for the job.

keeponkeepingon Senior Member • Posts: 1,478
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

technic wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

technic wrote:

A real artist can produce something worthwile with almost any tool.

...but this is nonsense. Most great artists would never touch or use any other tool than the best one for their purpose or for their kind of art. They would not know what to do with a 4s or any other phone cam.

On of the projects that I mentioned was organised by a well known museum, and definitely not just as a publicity stunt. I won't ramble about how limitations can produce great art; sometimes a very simple tool is the best for the job.

Good point! When I read olyflyer's post my first thought was (regarding the word artist/art)

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

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olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 25,962
Re: Hmmmm.... S100 or iPhone 4S?

keeponkeepingon wrote:

technic wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

technic wrote:

A real artist can produce something worthwile with almost any tool.

...but this is nonsense. Most great artists would never touch or use any other tool than the best one for their purpose or for their kind of art. They would not know what to do with a 4s or any other phone cam.

On of the projects that I mentioned was organised by a well known museum, and definitely not just as a publicity stunt. I won't ramble about how limitations can produce great art; sometimes a very simple tool is the best for the job.

Good point! When I read olyflyer's post my first thought was (regarding the word artist/art)

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

In other words, people like Ansel Admas and the others like him were just a bunch of amateurs. Too bad this forum did not exist while he was living because otherwise he could have learned that all he needs is a P&S or a cell phone...

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