Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

Started Sep 21, 2011 | Discussions
marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

If someone wants a body to compliment their DSLR, why not just buy a Fujifilm X100, which will have MUCH better IQ than the new J1? That is exactly what I will do. I have an interchangeable lens camera in my D7000. I don't need another system camera, with another set of lenses and accessories. Gearheads may like this idea, but most photographers won't.

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Zalan Contributing Member • Posts: 864
One thing I do not understand...

...which is the pricing. Small sensor size means cheaper system price and I do not see it yet. The story behind these cameras are they are a good balance of size, price and performance. Currently the price is in line with the competition with bigger sensor. Why?

The original idea is appealing to me, as I do not want to buy expensive bodies and lenses next to my D300 and the 1" sensor size should produce acceptable results. I will wait for the reviews to see how they perform. I would want a small and capable camera. The NEX is not an option, too big lenses, ditto Samsung. The micro4/3 is the real alternative, we will see. I really want to like the Nikon tough even when these cameras are that ugly

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LarryPhoto Senior Member • Posts: 2,612
J1 with 10mm 2.8

Looks like a great street shooter, I would think the ISO to 800 would be good enough for web work, this can be a great combo for candids, and just for shots when I'm not working with my D7000.

That said, I'm not ready to trade my LX5 for one, maybe when these go on sale next summer.

SeeRoy Senior Member • Posts: 1,666
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

I currently have both DX and FX bodies and (almost) enough lenses -the big 3 2.8 zooms for example. Like everyone else I want/need some lightweight option that I can afford as my economic situation has collapsed since I bought the DSLRs. My first reaction to the confirmation of these extensively leaked specs is disappointment.

I think it's fairly obvious that Nikon are pitching these products at what they perceive as the broadest "enthusiast" market sector. Not - as many people have already remarked - the sort of people who use forums like this one. The amount of (albeit quite interesting) gimmickry incorporated into these cameras makes that clear. Likewise the ergonomic omissions. The 10 Mp decision would tend to counter this however. Quite how they're going to exploit this now crowded market sector will be interesting. I don't think it's impossible that these products will turn out to be a marketing disaster - even if they prove to be a technical success.

I guess not many of us will get the opportunity to do a serious hands-on comparison of the various competitors for our money so we'll have to wait until sites like this do it for us. At first glance these products look far from compelling.

The only temptation, for me, is the same one that prevailed when I bought my first DSLR; I already had quite a lot of Nikon MF lenses and imagined I'd be using them far more than actually became the case. So the prospect of the F mount adaptor (when? how much?) plus some of my longer lenses, makes for interesting possibilities in the field of wildlife photography. I have a Sigma 150-500... X 2.7... Hmm.

Roy

JeffSnyder Regular Member • Posts: 139
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

Epic fail - to us gear heads, perhaps - but they will sell a lot of them.

kewlguy
kewlguy Senior Member • Posts: 1,952
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

you have many MF Nikkors? Do what I do: buy a NEX-5n (mine is NEX-5) and F adapter to NEX. You'd be surprised to see 50/1.2 AIS, 35/1.4 AIS and 28/2.8 AIS perform on NEX series!!! Very, very sharp

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Wellington100 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,764
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

jerrycambuk wrote:

the_rascal wrote:

but, your 50/1,4 on D700 is not the same as on the 2,7x sensor... really not...

Obviously..... I'm not daft enough to think otherwise. Ditto the other post about the 16/35 on the V1 as well, which is why I imagine if I do buy a V1 when the price crumbles (which it will) then I'd get it as a P&S with the Kit Lens and buy the adaptor to mess around with the F mounts mainly for my wife's use. The system gives options, and that to a Nikon shooter with a lot invested in the Nikon FX system is interesting as I am sure we would all appreciate. I mean, even my old EL3 remote control could get pressed back into use

The killer feature for me is the supposed instant AF and no lag. If this is proved in the reviews then Nikon might just have made a worthwhile compact P&S for those with kids such as myself, and then the 1 system suddenly becomes very interesting. I don't bother with a compact camera at the moment because they are all just too slow for candid photographs of my son.

You could get your wife a D3100 or a D5100 and keep either one Auto mode for her, these super lightweight cameras take stunning photos and with your lenses attached are not that much bulkier to carry than the new camera with the same lenses attached

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Wellington100 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,764
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

Whats wrong with a lightweight D5100 and a 35mm prime quality wise?

Debankur Mukherjee wrote:

One thing is for sure and that is - you have to carry weight to take quality photographs , there is no shortcut to success.

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Dennis Forum Pro • Posts: 18,927
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

jerrycambuk wrote:

It will not replace my D700 (never never never) BUT........ My wife, who is not a photohead but loves taking photos, and loves the quality we get from the D700 and the F mounts, will probably love a V1, and the adaptor to use our 16/35 or 50 f1.4.

So you'd buy a $900 camera plus adapter, put a big zoom on it as a "lifestyle" choice, and end up with a 43-94/11 equivalent ?

We may well buy a V1 with (horrors!!) a kit lens,

Nothing wrong with that ! With a 2.7x crop, it's an awfully slow lens, though. But the camera promises to be responsive with cool video & high fps sequencing features.

The big question is ... looking at it as a "lifestyle" camera rather than an enthusiasts compact ... will it sell over other fixed lens cameras and other mirrorless choices ?

I suspect it will sell some ... for the compactness and the unique features, and will be neither a slam dunk nor a failure.

Furthermore, the claimed focussing speed and shooting time lag could make this supposedly worthless compact into the only camera apart from a fully blown DSLR which is actually fast enough for kid and sports photography, but in a small package. And that is a huge positive.

Yes, I think Nikon needs to push that message. But it has to deliver. If you can't bump the ISO very high, at f/5.6, results might not be that great even if the AF can deliver.

Finally, back to LIFESTYLE - the thought of HD video in a small cam like this makes me think that now is the time to say bye bye to the Canon Legria (no HD) the couple of old Powershots, and the Canon D10, to be replaced by one compact camera which looks to have excellent compatability with my 'big-boy' system.

It's nice to have a camera like this, but there are other choices. They're not so compatible with Nikon DSLR lenses, but I question the advantage of compatibility with a 2.7X crop.

Personally, I'd be interested in a smaller alternative to NEX, but the smaller sensor has to be offset with faster lenses.

  • Dennis

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G Davidson Regular Member • Posts: 166
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

futurewah wrote:

regarding your comment about the NEX-7... I agree... it has been on my radar for some time too... I lost interest in the Nikon mirrorless system when I first heard about the crop factor... I think Sony made the right choice with APS-C... it's the small SLR replacement I want

As an aside, I see the 1 system as a testbed for new technologies... I think we will see a DX and FX mirrorless from Nikon at some point... it's the future... and they seem to be off to a flying start with their off-sensor AF and metering systems......

I see this as a potential success for Nikon, if their new AF technologies make the cameras easier to use. Like a lot of people here, there is no way I'd pay that much for such a small sensor and dark lenses, but it does give some clues as to what may appear in bigger cameras. It looks to be an interesting, hopefully very usable camera, which fills in the gaps in Nikon's line quite neatly. If it does catch on, it will be interesting to see how it's used, though we'll have to wait for reviews to see if the AF and IQ is as good as they say, or it's all just marketing fluff.
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Sensor This Forum Member • Posts: 86
Re: Epic Something...

It is all relative. Some view it as a failure as judged by the whiny tirades at Nikon Talk right now. Some with think neither. And, some will think Epic win.

Nikon was once a favorite camera line of mine, my last few were D300, D60, D5000 and P7000. However, Their DSLR line bores me, other that D3x which I am not wanting to invest in. The advanced compact line has long been poor and so, they need to bank on some success with the CX line.

They will need a price adjustment or a lot of Nikon fans to buy in.

jerrycambuk wrote:

I'm starting this thread simply as I was getting annoyed reading some of the garbage written on here, and other forums, by gear heads moaning about the J1/V1 launch as if it is worse than the ending of time. So, I am asking the question many have already commented on in other posts, has Nikon scored an EPIC WIN, or an EPIC FAIL with the J1/V1 launch today?

My twopenneth:

As a D700 user with a bag of F mount lenses, and with a wife and small son as well, the LIFESTYLE choice (knocked by so many) of the V1 is for me, very interesting.

It will not replace my D700 (never never never) BUT........ My wife, who is not a photohead but loves taking photos, and loves the quality we get from the D700 and the F mounts, will probably love a V1, and the adaptor to use our 16/35 or 50 f1.4. We may well buy a V1 with (horrors!!) a kit lens, and I'm sure my non techno wife will love it, as will my son, for whom this type of camera will be simple to use and will give him great results which at the age of 2 1/2 he would never be able to get from Daddy's DSLR.

Furthermore, the claimed focussing speed and shooting time lag could make this supposedly worthless compact into the only camera apart from a fully blown DSLR which is actually fast enough for kid and sports photography, but in a small package. And that is a huge positive.

Finally, back to LIFESTYLE - the thought of HD video in a small cam like this makes me think that now is the time to say bye bye to the Canon Legria (no HD) the couple of old Powershots, and the Canon D10, to be replaced by one compact camera which looks to have excellent compatability with my 'big-boy' system.

So, EPIC WIN Nikon, well done.

sproket1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,762
The Only Reason Nikon Came Out With

this new system is because they HAD to...... it's a me to....me to

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reginalddwight Senior Member • Posts: 2,003
Nikon need a mulligan

The Nikon 1 series are a colossal failure. No product differentiation from existing mirrorless cameras. Small sensor and underwhelming feature set, but priced nearly the same as their comparable competitors. Nikon need a mulligan.

happypoppeye
happypoppeye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,894
Depends on how much

How much is this thing?

For P&S'ers, with a decent price, it's an epic win.
For SLR users looking for IQ, probably an epic fail.

All depends how you look at it. We'll see how much the Nikon name will boost sales.

jerrycambuk wrote:

I'm starting this thread simply as I was getting annoyed reading some of the garbage written on here, and other forums, by gear heads moaning about the J1/V1 launch as if it is worse than the ending of time. So, I am asking the question many have already commented on in other posts, has Nikon scored an EPIC WIN, or an EPIC FAIL with the J1/V1 launch today?

My twopenneth:

As a D700 user with a bag of F mount lenses, and with a wife and small son as well, the LIFESTYLE choice (knocked by so many) of the V1 is for me, very interesting.

It will not replace my D700 (never never never) BUT........ My wife, who is not a photohead but loves taking photos, and loves the quality we get from the D700 and the F mounts, will probably love a V1, and the adaptor to use our 16/35 or 50 f1.4. We may well buy a V1 with (horrors!!) a kit lens, and I'm sure my non techno wife will love it, as will my son, for whom this type of camera will be simple to use and will give him great results which at the age of 2 1/2 he would never be able to get from Daddy's DSLR.

Furthermore, the claimed focussing speed and shooting time lag could make this supposedly worthless compact into the only camera apart from a fully blown DSLR which is actually fast enough for kid and sports photography, but in a small package. And that is a huge positive.

Finally, back to LIFESTYLE - the thought of HD video in a small cam like this makes me think that now is the time to say bye bye to the Canon Legria (no HD) the couple of old Powershots, and the Canon D10, to be replaced by one compact camera which looks to have excellent compatability with my 'big-boy' system.

So, EPIC WIN Nikon, well done.

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JackM
JackM Veteran Member • Posts: 8,480
Re: J1 with 10mm 2.8

LarryPhoto wrote:

Looks like a great street shooter, I would think the ISO to 800 would be good enough for web work, this can be a great combo for candids, and just for shots when I'm not working with my D7000.

Get a Ricoh GRD-IV if you want a pocket cam with a 28mm prime. With f/1.9 available it should have similar performance.

That said, I'm not ready to trade my LX5 for one, maybe when these go on sale next summer.

Agreed, LX5, XZ1, S100 are more attractive for the size. If I can't put it in my pocket, what is the point? I'll just use my DSLR.

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Xhinzo Regular Member • Posts: 160
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

Real scenarios:

  1. 1. My girlfriend really loves the photographs I take with my d5100. She has expressed interest in owning a d3100 ($699.95 US). She trust the Nikon brand. Interestingly enough she is also quite fashion concious and likes her tech to have "a look". Is the NJ1 at it's $649.95 US starting price a better suited alternative to the d3100?

My assesment: is that if the image quality of these camera/lens systems is on par with that of the d3100 then certainly its worth a buy.

  1. 2. I will at some point next year buy a back up body to my d5100 OR buy a better body and use my d5100 as my back up. I already own a P&S Fuji so I am not in the market for a smaller camera. Is the N1V1 starting at $899.95 US a possible back up to my d5100 ($849.95 US)?

My assessment: No, no, no, no, no. BAD pricing!!! Do not get me wrong, I know the technology used in building this camera has to cost enough to get to the roughly $900 US price point but you can get a d5100 body for less.

Moving away from my real life scenarios the N1V1 system seems a bit too costly unless of course these cameras have comparable (or perhaps even better) image quality etc than their dslr "equivalents".

Now moving away from the Nikon brand you have to consider the competition from other brands.

For me I think the N1J1 is a sweet deal. People like my girlfriend will love them especially with their colours etc. But when you move up close to the 1k price point what is the point? Portability? Their are cheaper P&S cameras that have superb image quality. How exactly does the N1V1 come into play at that price? I have no problem with the system itself. I see a place for the technology. I just do not see that place at that price!

For sure there is a market for that type of camera. It will be interesting to see just how the N1V1 fits into that market. For sure I can see the N1J1 being a success.

JackM
JackM Veteran Member • Posts: 8,480
Epic Fail.

If it won't fit in my pocket, I want at least m4/3, preferably APS-C, or FF.

What? The J1 with 27mm f/2.8 pancake will fit in my pocket? Big deal, a Ricoh GRD-IV will fit better.

Anything I buy to take with me when I don't want to bring my DSLR must fit in my pocket. Therefore I am looking at XZ-1, LX-5, and S100. Nikon, put that 1" sensor in a camera like that with a nice built-in 28-90mm f/2 - f/2.8 lens and I am IN.

So it clearly fails as a backup to a DSLR. Furthermore I have to believe anyone looking at this as their only system or as their large system will quickly conclude an m4/3 or NEX system will be the way to go. Unless they don't do any research, or are simply Nikon fans.

If these claims of "worlds fastest AF" turn out to be true, that will be the only thing to save it. If it can shoot active kids and sports, it may have merit. Still though, should have been m4/3. Duh.

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OdzBodkinz Senior Member • Posts: 1,438
Re: That ship has sailed...

I think Nikon is late to the party. For this to have been a consideration by me, they needed to launch with more pancake primes.

Sorry, I already own m/43 and some nice pancake lenses that suit my needs.

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paris1968 Contributing Member • Posts: 508
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

These cameras are going to be colossal failures. First, who would buy them? There are two possible markets: (1) Those who want a compact camera with a good lens. Nikon fails here because Oly and Panasonic already make 4/3 cameras with greater resolution, 12 and 16 mpx, and which are cheaper. Sony makes the smaller NEX series with Zeiss lenses and with much, much, greater mpx. Someone standing at a counter and comparing the Nikons with their competition would never buy the Nikon, especially as it is priced.

The other market is comprised of those who have already invested in the Nikon system. Me, for instance: I have 30 years worth of Nikkor lenses, a D300 and a D3x. I would like a small rangefinder that used Nikon lenses, but why would I want to pay ~$700 for a 10mpx camera? Instead I purchased a pair of 4/3 cameras, an Oly PL2 with 12.3 mpx, and a Panasonic G3 with 16 mpx. Both cameras already have useable kit lenses, but I also bought $50 adaptors for my Nikon lenses. Manual focus is something I am quite used to from the film days, so I am not bothered by the loss of AF.

So, again, who is going to buy these cameras?

desmo101
desmo101 Contributing Member • Posts: 829
Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

what amazes me is that nikon CLEARLY stated this camera wasn't for pro's, yet the only people whining in forums are pro's and advanced amateurs. No, it won't replace your D700.

also stop comparing this system with nex. Nex has no lenses available and quite frankly besides the announced zeiss, they all suck. I would never invest in a system where there is no glass... and most pro's would agree with me. Nikon has an interesting roadmap for this system and right away I can tell you it looks better than sony's.

There are some things to celebrate about the 1 IMO:

1) the new movie and AF advances will make their way onto the next pro-bodies... and it will be awesome !!!

2) you can by a 1 body and use your F lenses !!! sure it's a not a big sensor, but what about that 70-200 becoming a 189 - 540 !!!!! add a 2x III and... you do the math.

3) the size is great, especially the j1. sure you'll miss the viewfinder but it makes the price a lot better for this type of camera.

The bottom line is if I were shopping for a proish compact today (lx5, g12), which I happen to be. I'd seriously consider this instead, especially the j1. Imagine you buy a compact camera that is compatible with your f lenses !!!

I'm not sure it's a epic win, but it's a very cool product imo

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