One stop better high ISO than K-5?

Started Sep 6, 2011 | Discussions
KingDon Senior Member • Posts: 1,132
One stop better high ISO than K-5?

One the side is ISO 6400 and the other one ISO 3200 (k-5).

Which is which?

laurynas Regular Member • Posts: 287
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

left looks better

OP KingDon Senior Member • Posts: 1,132
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

laurynas wrote:

left looks better

Left is Nex-5N at ISO 6400

Right is K-5 at ISO 3200

Either Nex-5n has some amazing jpeg, or this is a new sensor. It can't be the last year 16 MP sensor.

hanhait Senior Member • Posts: 1,281
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

I think right has just a little bit more fine detail, despite a bit lower contrast. It may also be the objective lens, or is that the same ?

One stop extra may be claimed, but a comparison at the same ISO might be more revealing.

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OP KingDon Senior Member • Posts: 1,132
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

hanhait wrote:

I think right has just a little bit more fine detail, despite a bit lower contrast. It may also be the objective lens, or is that the same ?

IR uses the same Sigma 70mm F2.8 macro on Sony, Pentax, Canon, and Nikon. That lens is available for all four mounts.

You can compare the rest of images at

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

choose the cameras from the dropbox on the top.

laurynas Regular Member • Posts: 287
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

nice

pentax, give us K-5s with this new version of sony 16mp, and K-5x with 24mpix

stephp Forum Member • Posts: 68
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

The sensor is not better, the result is only due to a different image processing.

When comparing the colour palette at bottom of the still-life test images from imaging-resource @ 12800 & 25600 ISO, one can see the red channel from the Sony camera is heavy blurred, (moreover @ 25600) :-/ Also Sony apply a heavy sharpness on the images.
I prefer the more conservative approach of Pentax

KingDon wrote:

hanhait wrote:

I think right has just a little bit more fine detail, despite a bit lower contrast. It may also be the objective lens, or is that the same ?

IR uses the same Sigma 70mm F2.8 macro on Sony, Pentax, Canon, and Nikon. That lens is available for all four mounts.

You can compare the rest of images at

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

choose the cameras from the dropbox on the top.

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bavarius6 Contributing Member • Posts: 580
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

Just had a close look online. Is that sensor or processing? I do note that the K5 at equivalent ISO retains slightly more fine detail than the NEX5N but only slightly whereas the Sony is considerably less gritty. Impressive from Sony one way or the other.

steelski Senior Member • Posts: 2,555
Cough... Where is the RAW....... WARNING MASSIVE IMAGES

Oh wait..... The RAW results from the IR tests indicate something else entirely....

I suggest the OP does some processing...... Cudos to Sony for the JPEG.... But in RAW the K-5 looks almost a stop ahead in terms of noise in RAW.... check the 25600 RAW samples and develop them.... Here they are developed in faststone 4.6 (DCRAW) same ISO 25600, same shutter speed, same F stop (4)

The only thing different is the focus point. The Sony is focused more on the cork, whilst the Pentax more on the glass, you can see this in the bokeh of the book,
CLICK ORIGINAL to see the larger versions.

The still life images result in a similar result for pentax, infact even more so, but the Sony has a 1/3 less light.... they use F11 at 1/2000 for the Sony and F8 at F1/3200 for the Pentax, when it should be 1/4000th for a proper comparison.
I am reluctant to call the poster a Troll. but rather really really wishful.

KingDon wrote:

One the side is ISO 6400 and the other one ISO 3200 (k-5).

Which is which?

ET2 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,110
RAW

steelski wrote:

Oh wait..... The RAW results from the IR tests indicate something else entirely....

There is no RAW developers for Nex-5N. The camera was released two weeks ago. I am sure you are doing something wrong, or your software is doing something wrong.

Besides, SHAME ON PENTAX (and Nikon) for looking one stop behind 5N even though when they are starting with one stop advantage (according to you).

But I am pretty sure you are just doing something wrong with 5n raw.

ET2 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,110
Re: RAW NR

Also, I forgot ... PENTAX uses RAW NR starting from ISO 3200 (as noted by dxomark, IR, and dpreview).

So how on earth are you comparing K-5 RAW (that has NR applied to it) with other cameras with no NR applied to them?

haha ... there is the explanation You are comparing apples vs oranges.

ET2 wrote:

steelski wrote:

Oh wait..... The RAW results from the IR tests indicate something else entirely....

There is no RAW developers for Nex-5N. The camera was released two weeks ago. I am sure you are doing something wrong, or your software is doing something wrong.

Besides, SHAME ON PENTAX (and Nikon) for looking one stop behind 5N even though when they are starting with one stop advantage (according to you).

But I am pretty sure you are just doing something wrong with 5n raw.

ET2 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,110
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

5N has better fine detail at eqv ISOs and cleaner processing too

bavarius6 wrote:

Just had a close look online. Is that sensor or processing? I do note that the K5 at equivalent ISO retains slightly more fine detail than the NEX5N but only slightly whereas the Sony is considerably less gritty. Impressive from Sony one way or the other.

viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,156
Re: RAW

ET2 wrote:

steelski wrote:

Oh wait..... The RAW results from the IR tests indicate something else entirely....

There is no RAW developers for Nex-5N. The camera was released two weeks ago. I am sure you are doing something wrong, or your software is doing something wrong.

Besides, SHAME ON PENTAX (and Nikon) for looking one stop behind 5N even though when they are starting with one stop advantage (according to you).

Really? The K-5 is amazing at high ISO for an APS-C camera. Great for the Nex 5n too, but it is a year newer. The sensor has likely been updated if there is an improvement, but I would wait for other comparisons before making judgements that it is a stop ahead.

Eric

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Qwntm Veteran Member • Posts: 6,165
What's the FEKIN point???

SO a year newer camera may or may not have better IQ. And the point is what?

In 2 or 3 months, Pentax will have the K-3 (or whatever) with the exact same sensor in it and it will be better.

So again, what's the point?

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Mato34 Contributing Member • Posts: 920
Sure no RAW developer?

ET2 wrote:

steelski wrote:

Oh wait..... The RAW results from the IR tests indicate something else entirely....

There is no RAW developers for Nex-5N. The camera was released two weeks ago. I am sure you are doing something wrong, or your software is doing something wrong.

Try last version of Raw Therapee. I did, and comparing RAWs with D7000 it looks about the same at ISO 3200 (in fact D7000 does seem slightly better with slightly cleaner shadows/blacks).

I watched RAWs to know about the sensor on the Nex-5N, and the answer is there is no new sensor and the amazing results are due to JPG engine.

Saludos!

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Please, excuse my poor english...

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bavarius6 Contributing Member • Posts: 580
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

ET2 wrote:

5N has better fine detail at eqv ISOs and cleaner processing too

Actually I had a very close look at the images on the website and not just at the wool image which you seem so keen on. If you look at fine detail on the bottle labels the K5 has SLIGHTLY more detail, that's my opinion. I don't deny and have said that the 5N looks impressive but why do you care so much? From you're posts about this I assume you have Sony shares? Weird!

ET2 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,110
Re: One stop better high ISO than K-5?

bavarius6 wrote:

Actually I had a very close look at the images on the website and not just at the wool image which you seem so keen on. If you look at fine detail on the bottle labels the K5 has SLIGHTLY more detail, that's my opinion.

Where is that more detail? On the scale? on the bottles? It's less detail in most areas.

I don't deny and have said that the 5N looks impressive but why do you care so much? From you're posts about this I assume you have Sony shares? Weird!

Keep your insults to yourself, clown, and stick to the topic at hand, like I am doing.

ET2 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,110
Re: Sure no RAW developer?

Mato34 wrote:

I watched RAWs to know about the sensor on the Nex-5N, and the answer is there is no new sensor and the amazing results are due to JPG engine.

That matters to 99% of people anyway since they only use jpegs

It's a stop better in jpegs than K-5/D7000/d5100/a580

d7000 (left) ISO 3200, 5n right

Mato34 Contributing Member • Posts: 920
I agree but...

ET2 wrote:

That matters to 99% of people anyway since they only use jpegs

I agree, and being a Nikon user I had no problem in openning a thread at an spanish forum talking about the very good results of the Nex-5n.

Anyway the key point to me was if that was due to a new 16 MP sensor (or at least an evolution, like those of the D90 and K-x were in front of those of the D300 and A700), but it wasnt.

So I think that Nex-5N's JPGs at high ISOs set a new mark and that would be really appreciated by people as you said , but regarding sensor evolution (and so IQ from RAW) it seems we have nothing new here.

Sony has made a very big leap from old JPG processing at high ISOs...

Saludos!

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Please, excuse my poor english...

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ET2 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,110
Re: I agree but...

Mato34 wrote:

Anyway the key point to me was if that was due to a new 16 MP sensor (or at least an evolution, like those of the D90 and K-x were in front of those of the D300 and A700), but it wasnt.

D300s jpegs didn't look that different than D90. As for dxo score, D90 RAW showed NR artificats. It scored pretty high on dxomark but images looked worse than (the older) Nex cameras that had a lower score

Have a look

Bad D90 jpeg again?

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