POLL: How many are now convinced but waiting for the price to come down?

[Adam-T]

Also have the NEX (5). A lot to like about the camera, but I see it as a supplement to a DSLR, not a replacement.

Same here and feel the same way about the NEX, also that its totally a RAW only ca,era ...... I also feel that Sigma cameras (DP SD or otherwise) are add-ons to a normal Canon or Nikon setup too

--
A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

 

[TomFla]

I'd never ever buy the Sigma SD1 at that hilariously silly price. Even at half that price. Or a third. Sigma has proven that they can't be trusted to build a real system. Quality lenses, a wide range of lenses, and a professional remote flash system, are just a few examples of why ones money would be better spent on something else.

I'll give you the flash system but Sigma is doing really well on the other aspects you mentioned.

SNIP

Kendall, the biggest shock I had when I started shooting with Canon bodies was how far behind the curve I was using speed lights. I had used one of the old EF500 flashes on my sd10/sd14 and while it worked OK I was not really happy with the recycle time, battery life, or how hot it got. It also bothered me that you were limited in the number of flashes per time period.

The old Canon 580 is light years ahead of the Sigma 500; and the new Canon 580 II is suppose to be an upgrade. Canon also has several other speed lights. But the biggest shock was when I got some Pocket Wizards. I can control multiple off camera speed lights in different zones. HyperSync lets me shoot using flash at silly shutter speeds like 1/4000 (as in using flash at one four thousandth of a second), with recycle times fast enough for burst shooting, I no longer think about battery life, and the speed light no longer gets hot to the touch.

I am reminded of my old Photo I prof saying "amateurs talk about bodies, pros talk about lens, and photographers talk about light". Giving up flexibility in lighting is giving up a lot in my book.

--
Those who forget history are condemned to go to summer school.

 

[maple]

even at half of its present price, if they come up with a new version of 12-24 that's better than the 8-16. The one I have now is horrible.
--
Maple

 

[worldcup1982]

I'd never ever buy the Sigma SD1 at that hilariously silly price. Even at half that price. Or a third. Sigma has proven that they can't be trusted to build a real system. Quality lenses, a wide range of lenses, and a professional remote flash system, are just a few examples of why ones money would be better spent on something else.

I'll give you the flash system but Sigma is doing really well on the other aspects you mentioned.

While i see more and more your devotion for Sigma (and i surely don´t understand it) you have to things into perspective here. Sigma is doing well as a lens manufacter because their history is about having cheaper options to canons nikons and etc owners. By the time you sell at the same price as the competition, you have two choices: one, sell them to your system and two have a better optically lens than the original mount. For the option one , Sigma would have to sell their new zoom lenses (wide ones at least) to their SD15 owners and previous cameras, since they perform poorly for the 7000 usd camera. ( and sigma user base is small). For the option two i think it will be hard for Sigma to change their image all of the sudden and be seen as the quality option for other systems.

The SD1 was too big a step. Too many megapixels. Introducing noise and a crazy introductory price point.

Olympus also lost all my trust when they didn't release a follow-up pro camera after the E-1 for YEARS. Imagine being a pro, having bought into that system, with expensive lenses and all, and a 5MP bayer sensor in it. That's just so unacceptable practice from a company who marketed the E-1 and their pro system, as... a pro system... only to abandon it. Like pi* ing in the face of their pro customers.

To me it seems odd to complain about what Sigma is doing, and then also complain about Oly... I mean, isn't Sigma's approach better? That they have taken a huge leap and are trying to land the jump, rather than taking years and years to move?

Quite the opposite. (actually not but) Sigma made a MP jump, while Oly didn´t, but Oly had so many more quality lenses praised in reviews and etc. The problem with Oly is the sensor size. (at least so far). Sigma made a resolution jump without having the lenses to support it. And the Sigma leap was not huge. The previous cameras were so far behind the competition, that once they made a sealed body and etc you may think it was a huge leap. At 7000 usd the D3X body is years ahead sigmas

Even if Sigma does't lower the SD-1 price, you can still see somewhat smaller but still very high resolution imagers working backwards into the other existing products. Currently it's debatable if you'd want other small compacts over a DP-x camera, but with a slightly smaller version of the new sensor in a DP camera combined with the lenses they already have, there would be nothing that could touch it. Even if you pushed the limits of photosite shrinkage into a GF1 or X100, how would the lenses on those system fare?

Maybe you are right here. Since many lenses are average on the SD1 and the camera is pretty slow, a DP solution with a lens dedicated to it, would make a lot of photographers happy. But if it is 3000 to 4000 with the AF and poor LCD and all the quirks my DP1s has...hummmm

I mean no disrespect with this post. Sometimes is just hard to understand some posts (not just from you)

--
---> Kendall
http://InsideAperture.com
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I'd never ever buy the Sigma SD1 at that hilariously silly price. Even at half that price. Or a third. Sigma has proven that they can't be trusted to build a real system. Quality lenses, a wide range of lenses, and a professional remote flash system, are just a few examples of why ones money would be better spent on something else.

I'll give you the flash system but Sigma is doing really well on the other aspects you mentioned.

SNIP

Kendall, the biggest shock I had when I started shooting with Canon bodies was how far behind the curve I was using speed lights. I had used one of the old EF500 flashes on my sd10/sd14 and while it worked OK I was not really happy with the recycle time, battery life, or how hot it got. It also bothered me that you were limited in the number of flashes per time period.

The old Canon 580 is light years ahead of the Sigma 500; and the new Canon 580 II is suppose to be an upgrade. Canon also has several other speed lights. But the biggest shock was when I got some Pocket Wizards. I can control multiple off camera speed lights in different zones. HyperSync lets me shoot using flash at silly shutter speeds like 1/4000 (as in using flash at one four thousandth of a second), with recycle times fast enough for burst shooting, I no longer think about battery life, and the speed light no longer gets hot to the touch.

I am reminded of my old Photo I prof saying "amateurs talk about bodies, pros talk about lens, and photographers talk about light". Giving up flexibility in lighting is giving up a lot in my book.

If you were impressed by Canon flash technology, you should try a modern Nikon (D3, D300 or newer). You might want to sit down while shooting the first few times.

But, I get your point.

Ken

 

[agfa100]

Having picked up a Nex-3 to play with and use all my old Leica lenses, I find it hard to go back to the Sigma. Plus with the price, it's out of my price range. I still think I did some of my best work with my SD-9 and really liked using my SD-14, but the small size and Leica glass is hard to beat on the Nex. I am waiting to see how the Nex-7 is before I make any plans about my Sigma bodies, and 15, 20,50,105 lenses.

A lot of tough decisions to be made!

wbill

 

[TomFla]

I'd never ever buy the Sigma SD1 at that hilariously silly price. Even at half that price. Or a third. Sigma has proven that they can't be trusted to build a real system. Quality lenses, a wide range of lenses, and a professional remote flash system, are just a few examples of why ones money would be better spent on something else.

I'll give you the flash system but Sigma is doing really well on the other aspects you mentioned.

SNIP

Kendall, the biggest shock I had when I started shooting with Canon bodies was how far behind the curve I was using speed lights. I had used one of the old EF500 flashes on my sd10/sd14 and while it worked OK I was not really happy with the recycle time, battery life, or how hot it got. It also bothered me that you were limited in the number of flashes per time period.

The old Canon 580 is light years ahead of the Sigma 500; and the new Canon 580 II is suppose to be an upgrade. Canon also has several other speed lights. But the biggest shock was when I got some Pocket Wizards. I can control multiple off camera speed lights in different zones. HyperSync lets me shoot using flash at silly shutter speeds like 1/4000 (as in using flash at one four thousandth of a second), with recycle times fast enough for burst shooting, I no longer think about battery life, and the speed light no longer gets hot to the touch.

I am reminded of my old Photo I prof saying "amateurs talk about bodies, pros talk about lens, and photographers talk about light". Giving up flexibility in lighting is giving up a lot in my book.

If you were impressed by Canon flash technology, you should try a modern Nikon (D3, D300 or newer). You might want to sit down while shooting the first few times.

But, I get your point.

Ken

You seem to have ignored my point about the Pocket Wizard. There have been tons of threads in various lighting forums around the internet all coming to the same conclusion. Nikon bodies and Nikon speed lights are ahead of Canon bodies and Canon speed lights. But putting a Pocket Wizard between a Canon body and Canon (or in some cases other OEM speed lights) results in a better system than using Nikon bodies and speed lights no matter how you soup up the Nikon rig with Pocket Wizards, Radio Poppers, or what ever remote you select.

There are several comments about how much greater improvement you get from a Pocket Wizard and Canon stuff than from a Pocket Wizard and Nikon stuff, even if pure Nikon stuff is better.

You might want to sit down when first shooting with Canon & Pocket Wizard stuff.

--
Those who forget history are condemned to go to summer school.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

If you were impressed by Canon flash technology, you should try a modern Nikon (D3, D300 or newer). You might want to sit down while shooting the first few times.

But, I get your point.

Ken

You seem to have ignored my point about the Pocket Wizard. There have been tons of threads in various lighting forums around the internet all coming to the same conclusion. Nikon bodies and Nikon speed lights are ahead of Canon bodies and Canon speed lights. But putting a Pocket Wizard between a Canon body and Canon (or in some cases other OEM speed lights) results in a better system than using Nikon bodies and speed lights no matter how you soup up the Nikon rig with Pocket Wizards, Radio Poppers, or what ever remote you select.

There are several comments about how much greater improvement you get from a Pocket Wizard and Canon stuff than from a Pocket Wizard and Nikon stuff, even if pure Nikon stuff is better.

You might want to sit down when first shooting with Canon & Pocket Wizard stuff.

Good to hear,

I shall look into this development. It's a full time job trying to keep up with all the latest innovations.

So, you are saying that pocket wizards somehow actually modify the flash control algorithms in the firmware of a Canon camera, rather than just providing a wireless remote link? Interesting, I'm very curious. I've got some reading to do.

Ken

 

[ChromeLight]

Aside from a price drop, there would have to be updated primes plus a new and worthy f/2.8 wide angle zoom for me to even consider spending time considering an SD1 purchase.

 

[Roland Karlsson]

Hi Mike,

I am saving my meager income for it...but as a die hard Foveon/Sigma my response may be skewed.

Hi Seng - nice to hear from you!

If it is anyone here that should get an SD1 for free it should be you.

Take care.

--
Roland

support http://www.openraw.org/
(Sleeping - so the need to support it is even higher)

X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html

 

[TomFla]

Central Scrutinizer wrote:
SNIP

I shall look into this development. It's a full time job trying to keep up with all the latest innovations.

So, you are saying that pocket wizards somehow actually modify the flash control algorithms in the firmware of a Canon camera, rather than just providing a wireless remote link? Interesting, I'm very curious. I've got some reading to do.

I am no expert on this, but here goes.

For shutter speeds faster than sync speed the first curtain goes up and before the first curtain reaches the top of the FOV the second curtain starts going up so at no point is light reaching all of the sensor. For a speed light to work it must flash multiple times, often times in three digit numbers. My best guess is that the Pocket Wizard simply uses a different algorithm than Canon does to control the number and power of the multiple flashes; but that is only a guess. Here is a link to a PW vid that explains it much better than I ever could. There are lots of other vids at the site, and many of them are like this one in simply explaining how things work.

What I do know is that I get much better results from my speed lights using Pocket Wizards. I have done five shot bursts using my 1d4 and three speed lights. I was also surprised that I can attach a PW to the hotshoe of my 1d4 and put a 580 on top of that, then I put a PW under two Sigma EF 500 speed lights, one for Canon bodies and the other for Sigma bodies and both of the speed lights work. I was using Ever Ready re-chargeable AA batteries in the speed lights. Here are a couple of pix from this setup





For this type of photography burst shooting really makes my life easier.

--
Those who forget history are condemned to go to summer school.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

TomFla,

Thanks for clarifying. I see where you are coming from now. I somehow missed your emphasis on high speed sync. I don't know why, upon re-read you made it pretty clear. I think I was too focused on the general relative overall goodness of Sigma, Canon and Nikon flash systems.

Sigma is pretty pathetic and when new cameras and flashes come out things tend to break and are then never fixed.

I will file away this information about the exceptional performance of PW hypersync with Canon flashes for future reference.

To be specific about what I meant: Nikon flash exposure metering rules. Wasn't really thinking about high speed sync burst performance over wireless. Which could of course be very important as in your examples.

I sometimes get flash questions from Canon shooting friends, so thanks again for your info.

Ken

 

[Harold66]

The problem with Oly is the sensor size. (at least so far).

Nope. the problem is the Panasonic origin of the sensor. if sony was to make a 4/3rd version of their latest sensor, much of the problem would be gone

Harold

--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[Harold66]

I'm seeing less and less skepticism about the camera itself as better and better samples emerge. At this point I'm somewhat tempted but last night I was thinking: A leica M9 or a Sigma SD1?

well it is like hesitating between a small convertible and a large sedan.

You should do your homework because both tools are so different that no one should
hesitate between both.. at least not for the same kind of work

I pretty quickly came to the conclusion that despite the fact that they are similarly priced it would be much safer to buy the leica as it sill still be in the neighborhood of 75% of the original purchase price in a year. I don't think that will be true of the Sigma which makes me think maybe buy a leica for a year then pick up the sigma when reality has reasserted itself in sigma land.

I am sorry Ralph but I cannot imagine a sillier reasoning to decide on a camera.

if you are thinking if re-selling before you even bought the camera, just don't buy it

Harold

--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[DavidMillier]

Yes. A lot of is made of the reduced size of the 4/3 sensor but if you crop the right hand side off a APS-c sensor to convert it to a 4:3 aspect ratio, there is not much difference is size. The real problem is that Panasonic sensors are not yet as good as the best APS-C...
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/default.shtml

 

[DavidMillier]

You may find that selling the Leica is a downgrade.

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/default.shtml

 

[applemax]

Hello!

I am convinced, that this is the camera that can/will replace my SD10. SD14 and 15 failed to convince me, therefore I continued with the SD10. The SD1, I'm sure, will be a very worthwile improvement over the SD10.

But: I am not convinced, that this camera is really worth 9.000 Euros (7 for the camera and 2 for a new Macintosh because my cureent one can't handle the size of the files.). And even if I were convinced, it wouln't be worth that much to me.

So: Keep waiting.

 

[Goflorp]

Shitty ISO-performance
AF sucks
Hard to manually focus
Dark viewfinder
Small buffer
Diopter adjustment, bad construction
Battery icon acting strange
Eats batteries
Burst mode will "kneel" your batteries
Time from shot to processed is 18-19secs with standard cards
14 sec with mega-performance cards
Lot of dead pixels in photos
Color, off, banding, streaks etc
Picture quality crack up if other than perfect light conditions
"SD1 files have to be processed with more care than one might be used to."

A user base more fanatic than Apple's... convinced of their own artistic excellency.

yeah, sure I'm convinced....

 

[ole thofte]

Shitty ISO-performance
AF sucks
Hard to manually focus
Dark viewfinder
Small buffer
Diopter adjustment, bad construction
Battery icon acting strange
Eats batteries
Burst mode will "kneel" your batteries
Time from shot to processed is 18-19secs with standard cards
14 sec with mega-performance cards
Lot of dead pixels in photos
Color, off, banding, streaks etc
Picture quality crack up if other than perfect light conditions
"SD1 files have to be processed with more care than one might be used to."

A user base more fanatic than Apple's... convinced of their own artistic excellency.

yeah, sure I'm convinced....

Ha ha, sounds really bad, don't it? Sure you didn't forget anything. Good thing you don't have to buy this piece of crap...

Ole
--
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=38500043
http://www.pbase.com/thofte

 

[TomFla]

Central Scrutinizer wrote:
SNIP

I will file away this information about the exceptional performance of PW hypersync with Canon flashes for future reference.

To be specific about what I meant: Nikon flash exposure metering rules. Wasn't really thinking about high speed sync burst performance over wireless. Which could of course be very important as in your examples.

I sometimes get flash questions from Canon shooting friends, so thanks again for your info.

Ken, I am in agreement with what you posted, but would point out I have two Sigma flashes (the old EF500 speed lights); one for Canon bodies and the other for Sigma bodies. I can put a PW under both the EF500 speed lights and they work with my Canon bodies. I really did not expect the EF500 for Sigma bodies to work with a PW on a Canon body; but it did. This leads me to think the problem may not be so much with Sigma flashes, but rather the body.

--
Those who forget history are condemned to go to summer school.