SD1 full size disillusion (landscapes, nature)

Started Jun 27, 2011 | Discussions
Couscousdelight Regular Member • Posts: 436
Re: No excuse
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worldcup1982 Senior Member • Posts: 1,070
Re: Yeah Petr, I think those are pre-release firmware, I wouldn't consider them...

Raist3d wrote:

as representative of the final deal.

Check Carl Ryterfalk's website and the raws for download.

It sure would be interesting to see landscape shots like these with final firmware though, with shadows in them.

As far as i see it, at least this photo must be from the final firmware, or is not?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52010240@N06/5870115301/meta/in/photostream/

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,215
Madness

Your crop is a butterfly about 2X (or more) the size of the one in the SD-1 shot. And even so, the SD-1 has as much detail retained... It's absurd to compare those two images.

I agree the SD-1 shot looked a little soft, it probably also have noise reduction lowered and display even more detail. Also look at the settings, +1.7 contrast and +2.0 highlight! There's a lot of big adjustments going on there which reduce image quality.

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,215
Re: I dunno what D3x Nikon sample you are looking at but...

Raist3d wrote:

the one I saw had plenty of detail…

So have the SD-1 images, the D3X samples has detail that was all over the place.

The big question: why Sigma doesn't replace their entire pre release gallery with the real thing already. It works against them for obvious reasons.

Ask Nikon why they leave their own pre-release gallery up.

Really the answer is once cameras start shipping you get real images from all over.

It's beyond comprehension.

Odd, I find it easily understood, as does Nikon.

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katate Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: SD1 full size disillusion (landscapes, nature)

Hi,
I took some of those SD1 photos.

I just borrowed the SD1 from my friend, and took the photos with the SD1 only for two hours, so please not evaluate the quality of the SD1 with my photos.

In addition, my photos are developed with the SPP5 for my personal preference, not for showing the image quality of the SD1.

If you are interested, I uploaded the X3F files of some of my shots, so please process them by yourself.

https://rapidshare.com/files/129302802/ka_tate_SD1.zip

JLK Veteran Member • Posts: 4,491
Re: SD1 full PRICE disillusion (landscapes, nature)

I'm actually pretty happy with the SD1 images that I've seen. I still see vertical banding noise structure (in landscape orientation photos) when I do horribly abusive things to the images with fill light, but I'd certainly buy the camera.

For $2000.

(Just in case someone is listening...)

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Jim

alex_virt Senior Member • Posts: 1,045
Re: And that's why you don't release many pre-release images

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Why did you go find the worst possible samples,

Because there aren't any good ones, at least on Flickr, and I keep checking for new ones every day. A couple of nice portraits by Hiroya1128 http://www.flickr.com/photos/hiroya1128/5866138664/ and not a single good full-sized landscape...

OP petr marek Regular Member • Posts: 179
Thank you!

It´s kind of you.
My SD1 little experience can start!

First I had to change national settings in Windows 7 to UK to load image in SPP 5, otherwise SPP crashes while loading image - interesting bug - Sigma just rules!

The fact that loupe didn´t work at all and SPP sucks is minor to image quality for so much money...

I wish everyone, who blames weak image quality to preproduction software, wrong colorspace, gods, bad weather or whatever to try develop these raw files!
Some highlights:

SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: SD1 full PRICE disillusion (landscapes, nature)

JLK wrote:

I'm actually pretty happy with the SD1 images that I've seen. I still see vertical banding noise structure (in landscape orientation photos) when I do horribly abusive things to the images with fill light, but I'd certainly buy the camera.

For $2000.

I'll go $2500

(Just in case someone is listening)

Hopefully

And there would be loads of us running around and taking photos. But the critics would find something anyway to criticize.

Seriously though at earlier cameras releases, a fair number of cameras got out into the 'field' quickly with a resulting increase of samples from various parts of the world, subjects, lighting conditions, etc. Thus far, we've seen very little other than a few Japanese shots. I noticed some new ones on pbase today.... (Vermont variety... .)
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

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Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 37,312
Re: I dunno what D3x Nikon sample you are looking at but...

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

the one I saw had plenty of detail…

So have the SD-1 images, the D3X samples has detail that was all over the place.

The big question: why Sigma doesn't replace their entire pre release gallery with the real thing already.  It works against them for obvious reasons.

Except the d3x images don't have the glaring issues the current Sigma gallery do. And no, not all the shots in the current Sigma gallery are full of detail, in fact quite the opposite.

And quite frankly Kendall I don't know why's going on with you on this. Go ahead an compare full size the sample images from Sigma and compare them with the new ones from Carl and tell me they are at the level of quality particularly that people expected.  This denialist attitude doesn't help Sigma and certainly not your credibility

I even begin to wonder of you even have the skills to do such an assessment, some of the shots I have seen from you suggest you might.

Ask Nikon why they leave their own pre-release gallery up.

Let's say they do. So what's the wining case here? Let's do as nikon did? Is this the excuse?  Shouldn't  Sigma try to out do them with something as trivial and simple as posting new firmware final shots?

I am sorry but only someone behaving like a complete moron would think this is a winning case

Really the answer is once cameras start shipping you get real images from all over.

That's the stillness reason I have ears in a very very long time. As a company you have an image to protect and you don't leave  to amateurs to do it.  Honestly if this how Sigma thinks is no wonder they will never hit mainstream.

It's beyond comprehension.

Odd, I find it easily understood, as does Nikon.

No I think you made a very idiotic argument. One very easily disproven and I hope Sigma is smarter than this

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cerement Regular Member • Posts: 248
Re: SD1 full PRICE disillusion (landscapes, nature)

SandyF wrote:

JLK wrote:

For $2000.

I'll go $2500

And there would be loads of us running around and taking photos. But the critics would find something anyway to criticize.

Seriously though at earlier cameras releases, a fair number of cameras got out into the 'field' quickly with a resulting increase of samples from various parts of the world, subjects, lighting conditions, etc.

"Ay, there's the rub."

We're seeing photos coming out of rich collectors. None of us fans or "artists" can actually afford the cursed thing. We're stuck living vicariously through the photos of others ...

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,215
Utter misunderstanding on your part

petr marek wrote:

It´s kind of you.
My SD1 little experience can start!

And it couldn't with all of the other RAW files floating around? Curious that it only starts when you can find the oldest possible RAW images from PREPRODUCTION hardware.

First I had to change national settings in Windows 7 to UK to load image in SPP 5, otherwise SPP crashes while loading image - interesting bug - Sigma just rules!

And that was not a sign to you that possibly - just possibly - the files were so old that the results you got would not be trustworthy for any judgement? Of course not, forge ahead! After all, you knew the destination you sought and these would do just perfectly to reach it!

The fact that loupe didn´t work at all and SPP sucks is minor to image quality for so much money...

The fact you don't even know how to use SPP with SD-1 images speaks volumes.

I wish everyone, who blames weak image quality to preproduction software, wrong colorspace, gods, bad weather or whatever to try develop these raw files!
Some highlights:

Aha! Nirvana attained, you at last had your Great White Whale, color splotches in shadows.

All the while, ignoring the fact that preproduction is not just processing software, but far more a matter of hardware and firmware...

Live in your fantasy of gloom if you will, but the rest of us have production camera RAW images from people like Carl which show just exactly how accurate your purposeful and hatefully mangled assessment is.

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,215
What did your friend do to you?

katate wrote:

Hi,
I took some of those SD1 photos.

I just borrowed the SD1 from my friend, and took the photos with the SD1 only for two hours, so please not evaluate the quality of the SD1 with my photos.

Did you not see his other messages to see what he would do with raw images?

At the very least you should probably take down the Flickr images or reduce the maximum image size. What is the point of having them up? The fact is that whatever your intent might be, some people are using them to judge SD-1 image quality (witness this whole thread). Some like Petr even seek to trick others into thinking those are normal example images, I don't think you understand the depth some long-term anti-Sigma/Foveon trolls will go to in order to take Sigma/Foveon down as many notches as they can. And you just handed them a tool to work such mischief...

The only good thing to come of this is that at last people understand why images do not come out until so close to the camera being ready for release. Lots of stuff is being altered, tested, tweaked and images are going to have weird things about them going on until the camera is ready to ship. Especially with a brand new chip...

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,215
Busted

petr marek wrote:

I wish everyone, who blames weak image quality to preproduction software, wrong colorspace, gods, bad weather or whatever to try develop these raw files!

No you don't. You want them to just look at your conversion.

Because if they actually went and developed the RAW files, they would see what you had done was rather abnormal...

Some highlights:

That struck me as odd. I thought, how could and ISO 400 image end up so noisy?

So I tried to reproduce your result. You know what? Even pushed up two stops, even with contrast turned way up and turning off all noise reduction, I was never able to close in on exactly the lengths you went to get such a large amount of noise.

So I present to everyone here, what that same image looks like even when you take an ISO 400 image, push it by a stop or so, and increase contrast (with the default level of ISO 400 noise reduction applied):

"Unfair!" I hear you cry. "You do not increase saturation to +2.0 in order to try and increase noise as much as possible!".

Well here's that same image with the (ghastly) application of +2.0 saturation:

So please do tell us, just why did you remove all noise reduction, and then increase saturation by +2.0 before posting samples? And then what ELSE did you do I wonder?

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katate Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: What did your friend do to you?

Did you not see his other messages to see what he would do with raw images?

Sorry, I didn't check what he did, but I finally noticed it. And still I do not want to withdraw may images and RAWs.

I believe people have to see exactly "what it is." I think my photos show some weakness of the SD1, but at the same time I believe I could show some possibilities or abilities of the SD1.

All people reading this thread can evaluate whether the IQ of the SD1 is what he said or not. I also uploaded the RAWs, so they can check them by themselves.

There are many people who are wise enough to evaluate the comment of this forum, like you.

If I hide the full sized photos and RAWs, someone would doubt something. I don't think it's a good idea.

Couscousdelight Regular Member • Posts: 436
Re: Utter misunderstanding on your part

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Curious that it only starts when you can find the oldest possible RAW images from PREPRODUCTION hardware.

I'm sorry, but no, only the first image of the serie is made with a old FW, all other pics are made with a recent FW.
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SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: Busted

Kendall, I haven't installed SPP5 yet so I cannot process the RAW ISO400 flower image myself. Would you do a proper processing of the image and show the difference to that which petr marek produced? Thanks,
Best regards, Sandy
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OP petr marek Regular Member • Posts: 179
Re: Busted

Sandy, I truly recommend your own experience with processing these files. You will see the reality not some camouflage.

SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: Yeah Petr, I think those are pre-release firmware, I wouldn't consider them...

worldcup1982 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

as representative of the final deal.

Check Carl Ryterfalk's website and the raws for download.

It sure would be interesting to see landscape shots like these with final firmware though, with shadows in them.

As far as i see it, at least this photo must be from the final firmware, or is not?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52010240@N06/5870115301/meta/in/photostream/

I don't think you can tell from the EXIF given. By the way, that image has very smoothed out foliage/greenery detail on the left and some purple fringing on the mountain edge on the right. I still cannot recall a distant landscape shot that really strikes me as good. Olga and Bob now have some of the best recent 'nature' closeups but no big landscapes yet. Laurence's shot of a house has lovely foliage detail as well as detail on the house. And I like the 'near gamut limit' floral... best floral I think along with the 'willow' detail.
Best regards, Sandy
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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,215
That's what I did

petr marek wrote:

Sandy, I truly recommend your own experience with processing these files. You will see the reality not some camouflage.

Yeah, the reality when you edit them is more like what I showed, which were close to defaults except pushed more than you normally would, than your supersaturated noise-enhanced example.

So I also encourage people to load them up in SPP, start with Auto and play around...

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