Lightroom camera profile - big difference

Started Jun 14, 2011 | Discussions
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duncsuss Contributing Member • Posts: 928
Lightroom camera profile - big difference

I discovered there is a big difference between "Adobe Standard" and "Camera Standard" in the Lightroom develop module Camera Calibration : Profile setting. (I expect this is also true in the Photoshop ACR module since they use the same engine.)

To illustrate, here are 2 versions of the same photo, the only difference in development settings being this choice of Profile.

I selected the white balance using the dropper tool on the 4th gray patch, between "40" and "50" in the bottom row, of the QPcard in the first version. When I used the eyedropper on the second pic, the resulting value was almost identical, so I just went with the same as the first pic.

Note the color shift in the iris behind the QPcard -- I'd been struggling to get the true purple of the iris in the photos I'd taken, no amount of tinkering with the white balance seemed to fix it.

Now I know to use the Camera Standard profile. Who would've thought that Pentax could do a better job than Adobe at processing Pentax color?

Using the Adobe Standard profile:

Using the Camera Standard profile:

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Duncan

kevinschoenmakers Contributing Member • Posts: 637
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

Oh that's quite a find - keen to try this myself now. Thanks!

Aex Regular Member • Posts: 399
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

I guess I'm kinda the same but different.

I created a profile for my K-5 to churn out pleasant-to-look-at heck-care-about-correctness color profile for my travel pics. Shared it with some of my mates (created versions for K-x/r/7/20D) and they seem to be quite happy about it.

Befores (left) and afters (right)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/testdasi/5782708564/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/testdasi/5777307542/

Plakanina Contributing Member • Posts: 780
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

duncsuss wrote:

I discovered there is a big difference between "Adobe Standard" and "Camera Standard" in the Lightroom develop module Camera Calibration : Profile setting. (I expect this is also true in the Photoshop ACR module since they use the same engine.)

I must be left behind somewhere. In my Lightroom (2.7 camera raw 5.7) under 'camera calibration' next to profile is only one option 'embedded'.

I do like what I see on yours and the other post, more contrast and color saturation. Mine are always rather flat.

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RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,258
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

I myself use "camera neutral" for my Canon camera. I'd rather build in my own contrast relative to what the RAW data can handle than to start with a good amount of contrast to being with.

Meuh
Meuh Senior Member • Posts: 2,859
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

I only have adobie standard in mine.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31735225@N02/

bricko Regular Member • Posts: 296
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

I believe the photo file has to be RAW to have a choice other than EMBEDDED. Check the HELP files in LR 3.4 . I pulled up jpeg and that is all there is to pick from. I dont shoot RAW so dont have any to check with. The HELP files seem to point in that direction.

narddogg81 Senior Member • Posts: 1,029
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

Yep, its very useful. I ran across that feature a while back while trying to get the correct color i remembered on a flower petal. It too was a purple flower, and nothing i did could make it not look blue, until i picked the camera profile. Sometimes adobe standard looks better, but I have modified my preferences in LR to start with camera standard and go from there. I find my colors are more accurate now.

Meuh
Meuh Senior Member • Posts: 2,859
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

I shoot raw, and with other cameras I was able to select different profiles but not with my k5.

bricko wrote:

I believe the photo file has to be RAW to have a choice other than EMBEDDED. Check the HELP files in LR 3.4 . I pulled up jpeg and that is all there is to pick from. I dont shoot RAW so dont have any to check with. The HELP files seem to point in that direction.

Success Regular Member • Posts: 218
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

Meuh wrote:

I shoot raw, and with other cameras I was able to select different profiles but not with my k5.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31735225@N02/

This is my experience, too. Also, I don't think "embedded" is even supposed to be available on RAW files, but it is. Don't exactly know what embedded would mean on a RAW file.

Edvinas Senior Member • Posts: 2,811
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

duncsuss wrote:

Now I know to use the Camera Standard profile. Who would've thought that Pentax could do a better job than Adobe at processing Pentax color?

Both Camera Standard and Adobe standard profiles are created by Adobe, not Pentax.
If you want to see Pentax color, shoot DNG and use Embedded profile.

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Edvinas

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steephill Veteran Member • Posts: 9,788
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

You can also extract the embedded profile from a DNG to ceate a new profile to use with PEF.

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eadrian75
eadrian75 Regular Member • Posts: 417
use embedded

Success wrote:

Meuh wrote:

I shoot raw, and with other cameras I was able to select different profiles but not with my k5.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31735225@N02/

This is my experience, too. Also, I don't think "embedded" is even supposed to be available on RAW files, but it is. Don't exactly know what embedded would mean on a RAW file.

If you have the option to do so then use embedded. This is the profile PENTAX camera (or other camera) embeds into it's raw files. This option will not be available if your camera does not embed its profile into raw files.

Also, don't forget to select "enable profile corrections" under Lens Corrections > Profile tab of Lightroom 3. It should automatically detect your lens and make appropriate corrections.

Not sure if it makes a difference, but i shoot/capture to DNG.

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Edvinas Senior Member • Posts: 2,811
My K-7 comparison

To my eyes, Camera Standard is way off. Adobe Standard is better, Embedded has best skin tones, hair colour (closest to reality).

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Edvinas

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duncsuss OP Contributing Member • Posts: 928
from the Adobe Help documentation ...

Thanks for all the suggestions on how to get even better colour results; obviously, I can't go back and re-shoot all my PEFs as DNGs, and I suspect converting PEF to DNG is not going to result in more useful information than the PEF itself contains.

I'm using Lightroom 3.4.1 on a Mac - it may be different in your system.

Adobe Standard These profiles significantly improve color rendering, especially in warm tones such as reds, yellows, and oranges, from earlier Adobe camera profiles. The Profile pop-up menu displays only one Adobe Standard profile for your camera.

Camera Matching These profiles attempt to match the camera manufacturer’s color appearance under specific settings. Use a Camera Matching profile if you prefer the color rendering offered by your camera manufacturer’s software. Camera Matching profiles include the prefix Camera in the profile name.

Embedded Indicates that the current file (a TIFF, JPEG, or PSD photo) has an embedded profile.

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Duncan

duncsuss OP Contributing Member • Posts: 928
Re: My K-7 comparison

Edvinas wrote:

To my eyes, Camera Standard is way off. Adobe Standard is better, Embedded has best skin tones, hair colour (closest to reality).

I've double checked, "embedded" does not exist in the PEF files from my K10D so that isn't an option in this case.

The iris was purple. Adobe Standard rendered it blue, unless I cranked the color temperature so high the other colors went bad.

The lesson I draw from this is simply that the choices exist, and it may be worthwhile looking at the different results before spending a lot of time attempting to WB the image.

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Duncan

Edvinas Senior Member • Posts: 2,811
K-5 Adobe standard vs Embedded

Very close IMHO.

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Edvinas

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Meuh
Meuh Senior Member • Posts: 2,859
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

Thank you ill go do that now

steephill wrote:

You can also extract the embedded profile from a DNG to ceate a new profile to use with PEF.

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Edvinas Senior Member • Posts: 2,811
Sorry, that was flawed comparison, different WB

This is correct one:

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Edvinas

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David Bourke Contributing Member • Posts: 534
Re: Lightroom camera profile - big difference

I am interested in this because I just shoot a series of Lacrosse photos in jpeg, and the dark blue jerseys came out purple rather than blue. I have noticed this in the past with a colleague's blue shirt. I don't have this problem using Adobe created profiles, but I find the sky color in Adobe Standard to be too cyan and the Camera Standard to be too saturated. Of course it is easy to adjust these.

-David Bourke

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