More for the peepers

Started Jun 11, 2011 | Discussions
WernerMueller Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

There is a nice walk just under the roof with a nice view (upper right corner of the picture), if I remember correctly.

DaSigmaGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,304
Re: Thanks.

petr marek wrote:

Clearly dissappointing, the resolution is the only thing left, the rest is far behind nowadays cameras quality.

I´m glad I´ll save the money. I wanted from Sigma just similar sensor as SD15 with improvement in ISO performance, but it looks like they screwed with large megapixel count tonal quality of previous sensor.

But then they put on the greedy goggles and they made them think it was a good idea to quadrupal the price!

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cinefeel Contributing Member • Posts: 860
Re: Thanks.

I think the weak tonal qualities is due to SD1 SPP processing, which can be improved.

This is a whole new pipeline that can be refined quite a bit. Also, almost all of the new samples we've been looking at have not been properly processed or were set to SPP full-auto.

AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 58,589
Re: More for the peepers

A picture is emerging....It seems those tiny few that have bought an SD1 have opted for one of the kit options. Specifically, the SD1 + 17-50 EX kit option, and thats probably why the samples always look so soft and poor quality compared to samples from the SD14 and SD15.

In all fairness Alf, the SD9-15 are all 3D tack sharp with the furry £50 18-50 F3.5-5.6 DC -------- loaded with CA and distortion but a lot sharper at pixel level than the SD1 with the top notch 70mm Sigma Prime on . it's almost as if the SD1 has an AA filter as well as overcooked NR in SPP

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Jaelkay Senior Member • Posts: 2,243
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

Jaelkay wrote:

AdamT wrote:

And there is no wideangle zoom on the Canon side either which will match the SD1.

the 17-55IS EFS is a lot better at F2.8 than the Sigma 17-50 - the original Tamron 17-50 F2.8 is also and neither are CA monsters - the canon 10-22 has an excellent reputation . I'm not big on EFS canons (I have a 550D with a megazoom on that's all) I use Fullframe for work but there are quite a few decent lenses for crop sensors for it which stand up to pixelpeeping bayer 18Mp , things should be even sharper with 15Mp Foveon (that's how it worked comparing the SD cams to a bayer canon or nikon anyway - my 17-70 non OS performs better on the SD14 than I've ever seen one do on a D80, Sony Alpha or Pentax K10 anyway)

Have you tried the Nikon 14-24? It's brilliant across the zoom and aperture range.

I've tried one, on a late Nikon DSLR, and I was'nt impressed. Lots of distortion > for a zoom thats supposed to be rectalinear. The old Sigma 14mm f3.5 > rectalinear prime has less distortion and in the centre of frame at least is noticably > sharper. The Nikon has better contrast but thats about it. You can pick the > Sigma up for peanuts...Cant say the same for the Nikon.

I don't have access to the Sigma 14mm, but I can say that the Nikon 14-24 (at least the one I own) is the best zoom lens I've ever owned. There is very little distortion, particularly given it's such a wide lens on full frame.

SigmaChrome Veteran Member • Posts: 9,414
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

I've never seen any distortion with the Nikkor 14-24. We use it all the time for weddings in low light, wide open and at high ISOs. It's very sharp. I'm guessing you used a sub-standard or faulty example.

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

I've tried one, on a late Nikon DSLR, and I was'nt impressed. Lots of distortion for a zoom thats supposed to be rectalinear. The old Sigma 14mm f3.5 rectalinear prime has less distortion and in the centre of frame at least is noticably sharper. The Nikon has better contrast but thats about it. You can pick the Sigma up for peanuts...Cant say the same for the Nikon.

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Ceistinne Senior Member • Posts: 1,295
Re: More for the peepers

AdamT

Can you never find anything good to say any Sigma stuff whether cameras or lenses.?
S

AdamT wrote:

Yeah - LOL - the 17-50 is definately not up to the Job , a mess at F2.8 and F4 has as much CA as a Sony 828 ........ Shame Tamron don't make lenses in Sigma SA mount . Wow does this thing need an EOS mount version .

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exdeejjjaaaa
exdeejjjaaaa Veteran Member • Posts: 8,263
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

AdamT wrote:

And there is no wideangle zoom on the Canon side either which will match the SD1.

the 17-55IS EFS is a lot better at F2.8 than the Sigma 17-50

@ 2.8

"a lot" only in extreme corners

better in corners

and pretty much the same in center

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/531-sigma1750f28os?start=1

vs

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/425-canon_1755_28is_50d?start=1

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kwaller Contributing Member • Posts: 577
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

SigmaChrome wrote:

I've never seen any distortion with the Nikkor 14-24. We use it all the time for weddings in low light, wide open and at high ISOs. It's very sharp. I'm guessing you used a sub-standard or faulty example.

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

I've tried one, on a late Nikon DSLR, and I was'nt impressed. Lots of distortion for a zoom thats supposed to be rectalinear. The old Sigma 14mm f3.5 rectalinear prime has less distortion and in the centre of frame at least is noticably sharper. The Nikon has better contrast but thats about it. You can pick the Sigma up for peanuts...Cant say the same for the Nikon.

I was with Alf when he tried the D3x with the 14 - 24. we were at the Nikon professional show held in London in 2009. Free tickets as my sister in law ran Nikon Professional UK division, Alf likes freebies. pay for something you must be joking

At this period in time Alf really was the Sigma Zealot and nothing else could possibly compaire.

back to the point he tried this combination for all of 30 seconds, made the same statements and also said that the view finder on the D3x wasn't very good and was soft and not as good as the viewfinder on his SD (can't remember if it was the 10 or the 14).
took a couple of shots with it and looked at them on the rear screen.

Alf had already made up his mind that the Nikon wasn't good before he even picked up the combination.

Luckily his opinions have changed about other camera makers and i think about photos produced by other DSLR's as well, still likes to pixel peep but accepts that theres more to a good image than an individual pixel

Think the SD1 debacle has pushed him over the edge, as he was (still is) shall we say slightly disapointed with the price

Regards

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AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 58,589
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

"a lot" only in extreme corners

and the edges....

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DaSigmaGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,304
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

Jaelkay wrote:

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

Jaelkay wrote:

AdamT wrote:

And there is no wideangle zoom on the Canon side either which will match the SD1.

the 17-55IS EFS is a lot better at F2.8 than the Sigma 17-50 - the original Tamron 17-50 F2.8 is also and neither are CA monsters - the canon 10-22 has an excellent reputation . I'm not big on EFS canons (I have a 550D with a megazoom on that's all) I use Fullframe for work but there are quite a few decent lenses for crop sensors for it which stand up to pixelpeeping bayer 18Mp , things should be even sharper with 15Mp Foveon (that's how it worked comparing the SD cams to a bayer canon or nikon anyway - my 17-70 non OS performs better on the SD14 than I've ever seen one do on a D80, Sony Alpha or Pentax K10 anyway)

Have you tried the Nikon 14-24? It's brilliant across the zoom and aperture range.

I've tried one, on a late Nikon DSLR, and I was'nt impressed. Lots of distortion > for a zoom thats supposed to be rectalinear. The old Sigma 14mm f3.5 > rectalinear prime has less distortion and in the centre of frame at least is noticably > sharper. The Nikon has better contrast but thats about it. You can pick the > Sigma up for peanuts...Cant say the same for the Nikon.

I don't have access to the Sigma 14mm, but I can say that the Nikon 14-24 (at least the one I own) is the best zoom lens I've ever owned. There is very little distortion, particularly given it's such a wide lens on full frame.

Very little distortion?...This proves otherwise:

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DaSigmaGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,304
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

kwaller wrote:

SigmaChrome wrote:

I've never seen any distortion with the Nikkor 14-24. We use it all the time for weddings in low light, wide open and at high ISOs. It's very sharp. I'm guessing you used a sub-standard or faulty example.

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

I've tried one, on a late Nikon DSLR, and I was'nt impressed. Lots of distortion for a zoom thats supposed to be rectalinear. The old Sigma 14mm f3.5 rectalinear prime has less distortion and in the centre of frame at least is noticably sharper. The Nikon has better contrast but thats about it. You can pick the Sigma up for peanuts...Cant say the same for the Nikon.

I was with Alf when he tried the D3x with the 14 - 24. we were at the Nikon professional show held in London in 2009. Free tickets as my sister in law ran Nikon Professional UK division, Alf likes freebies. pay for something you must be joking

At this period in time Alf really was the Sigma Zealot and nothing else could possibly compaire.

back to the point he tried this combination for all of 30 seconds, made the same statements and also said that the view finder on the D3x wasn't very good and was soft and not as good as the viewfinder on his SD (can't remember if it was the 10 or the 14).
took a couple of shots with it and looked at them on the rear screen.

Alf had already made up his mind that the Nikon wasn't good before he even picked up the combination.

And my eyes did'nt lie...The Photozone review agrees with my findings about the distortion, which was highly visible through the viewfinder BTW:

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Jaelkay Senior Member • Posts: 2,243
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

Jaelkay wrote:

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

Jaelkay wrote:

AdamT wrote:

And there is no wideangle zoom on the Canon side either which will match the SD1.

the 17-55IS EFS is a lot better at F2.8 than the Sigma 17-50 - the original Tamron 17-50 F2.8 is also and neither are CA monsters - the canon 10-22 has an excellent reputation . I'm not big on EFS canons (I have a 550D with a megazoom on that's all) I use Fullframe for work but there are quite a few decent lenses for crop sensors for it which stand up to pixelpeeping bayer 18Mp , things should be even sharper with 15Mp Foveon (that's how it worked comparing the SD cams to a bayer canon or nikon anyway - my 17-70 non OS performs better on the SD14 than I've ever seen one do on a D80, Sony Alpha or Pentax K10 anyway)

Have you tried the Nikon 14-24? It's brilliant across the zoom and aperture range.

I've tried one, on a late Nikon DSLR, and I was'nt impressed. Lots of distortion > for a zoom thats supposed to be rectalinear. The old Sigma 14mm f3.5 > rectalinear prime has less distortion and in the centre of frame at least is noticably > sharper. The Nikon has better contrast but thats about it. You can pick the > Sigma up for peanuts...Cant say the same for the Nikon.

I don't have access to the Sigma 14mm, but I can say that the Nikon 14-24 (at least the one I own) is the best zoom lens I've ever owned. There is very little distortion, particularly given it's such a wide lens on full frame.

Very little distortion?...This proves otherwise:

I agree that looks a bit crook when put up as graph, but in reality I have never seen anything like that amount of distortion in DX crop or Full Frame Nikon photos using the 14-24.

Jaelkay Senior Member • Posts: 2,243
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

SigmaChrome wrote:

I've never seen any distortion with the Nikkor 14-24. We use it all the time for weddings in low light, wide open and at high ISOs. It's very sharp. I'm guessing you used a sub-standard or faulty example.

Well - thank you for your support

The two lenses I use most of the time on my Nikon bodies are the 14-24 and the 24-70. They are brilliant performers to the degree I have a swag of Nikon and Zeiss primes sitting about totally unused.

DaSigmaGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,304
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

Jaelkay wrote:

SigmaChrome wrote:

I've never seen any distortion with the Nikkor 14-24. We use it all the time for weddings in low light, wide open and at high ISOs. It's very sharp. I'm guessing you used a sub-standard or faulty example.

Well - thank you for your support

The two lenses I use most of the time on my Nikon bodies are the 14-24 and the 24-70. They are brilliant performers to the degree I have a swag of Nikon and Zeiss primes sitting about totally unused.

You think Nikon would use a sub-standard or faulty lens at a dedicated Nikon expo trade show?...I very much dought that.

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kwaller Contributing Member • Posts: 577
Re: There is no wideangle lens for the SD1

Do you happen to have the graph for the Sigma 8 -16mm or the 10 -20mm to compaire to the Nikon Lens.
Just a personal opinion here but does a chart realy tell you how good a lens is?

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Poweruser Contributing Member • Posts: 516
Aberration hell

If this is supposed to compete in the medium format market how does anyone explain this to their customers? Probably the nastiest aberrations I have seen.

DaSigmaGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,304
Re: Aberration hell

Poweruser wrote:

If this is supposed to compete in the medium format market how does anyone explain this to their customers? Probably the nastiest aberrations I have seen.

CA is a lens issue, not a sensor issue...This is just another example of what you can expect when you use wde angle zoom lenses instead of sharper primes.

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Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,338
Re: Aberration hell

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

CA is a lens issue, not a sensor issue...This is just another example of what you can expect when you use wde angle zoom lenses instead of sharper primes.

I think this was the posters point. The lenses is a part of the camera system.

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jonny1976 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,233
Re: Aberration hell

untrue....sensor play a role even in ca

for example i use pentax gear...

my k20d and in general that samsung sensor was a machine gun for producing ca...the new k5 has lower level of ca.

my 8-16 for example with mmy k5 produce very low level of ca. from what have seen using the sd1 and 8-16 the level of ca are much more higher than what i see using the 8-16 with my k5.
the 8-16 is a superb lens used with k5, butnormal with sd1.

in addition many lens tested by photozone using the k5 show better results than those produced using the old k10d that was only 10 million pixel.
sensor play a role. probably this sensor is really hungry of superb glass.

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

Poweruser wrote:

If this is supposed to compete in the medium format market how does anyone explain this to their customers? Probably the nastiest aberrations I have seen.

CA is a lens issue, not a sensor issue...This is just another example of what you can expect when you use wde angle zoom lenses instead of sharper primes.

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