Finally admitted defeat

Started May 28, 2011 | Discussions
harvey lexton Regular Member • Posts: 154
Re: In defense of the OP...

This guy really shouldn't be shooting weddings, he obviously know sod all about the equipment he is using.

This guy is trying to wind you all up, I think he is having a laugh, and he states he is or was better still a wedding photographer.

Well I am and I can tell him the pictures from my D700 that I use as a backup give excellent results, with great DR, excellent blacks and detail in whites.

Don't fall for the bait he winding you all up.

Arree
Arree Senior Member • Posts: 1,535
Re: In defense of the OP...

You got me here, I also never had a D700 (FX !) this cam supphose to be better then what we have !
If I see your pics ALL skintones seems natural to me.

I agree Nikon makes the colors a bit nicer then they actually are, only nikon programs neutralize that.

View NX makes that the perfect viewer for me, I see more depth, colourquality, bokeh then in photoshop, ASdcee, windows live Pro or Picasa.

My Pic Control is neutral/portrait and I shoot raw with my D300 I am satisfied with my skintones even when shooting dark/asian people.

I dont expect we are using same things exactly but it is well known you need to put some extra effort in a pro camera to get the maximum out of it, certainly if you not used to a brand !
--
Regards,

Arree

Like to see some pic's ?
http://picasaweb.google.nl/Arretje56/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13935871@N04/

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lancet
lancet Regular Member • Posts: 119
Re: Finally admitted defeat

Interestingly enough, one of the reasons I switched from Canon was skin tones.

There is a determined ratio of cyan, magenta and yellow in CMYK for the most natural rendition of Caucasian skin tones (you can find it in most of the literature on skin retouching). Percent of yellow should be more than magenta, and cyan third to half of magenta value.

Canon has too much magenta that usually reaches over yellow in percentage and gives pinkish tones that can become overly reddish in most people when they have too much to drink. You can't miss Canon skin tones if they haven't been processed.

Nikon gives slightly too much yellow, at least that what I found with D700 and D3 sensor and processing. However, using D2x mode 1 it gets to the most natural rendition.

However, that doesn't have to be up to everyone's taste since many people like the skin to look pink, although in reality it usually isn't pink. The OP seems to be in that group.

Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: In defense of the OP...

Kim Letkeman wrote:

...it is easy to forget that some people have no interest to advance beyond pointing and shooting.

Why would someone pay $2,500+ lenses just to point and shoot? That's sort of like buying a 18 wheeler truck to go grocery shopping.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

msjhaffey Senior Member • Posts: 1,459
Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

I have a D700 that I am delighted with. So I am sad that the OP has struggled and failed to get results that satisfy him.

What saddens me a lot more is the rudeness that I have seen increasing across the dpreview boards. It seems it is not enough to disagree with someone but that ill-courtesy must follow with many posters. Many seem to justify it on the basis that "I have a right to my opinion". You do. But these boards would be more enjoyable and useful for all photographers if you kept intemperate language for your private thoughts.

May I suggest one book that would help all photographers, amateur and pro? It's Miss Manner's Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior by Judith Martin, available now from Amazon and all good bookshops.

-- hide signature --

Sean

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lnbolch
lnbolch Senior Member • Posts: 2,316
Re: In defense of the OP...

Robin Casady wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

...it is easy to forget that some people have no interest to advance beyond pointing and shooting.

Why would someone pay $2,500+ lenses just to point and shoot? That's sort of like buying a 18 wheeler truck to go grocery shopping.

You might have a lot of money to buy this stuff. The one thing money won't buy is reason.

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Arretose Senior Member • Posts: 1,114
My 2 cents

I own a successful photography business in Las Vegas. I always shoot RAW. Sometimes when I shoot in the shade, every once in a while I get skin tones that are yucky! It has nothing to do with my camera, but everything to do with that particular persons skin tone (usually reddish). My work around has been to use a sunlight reflector and some post processing. It just happens to be that some people have horrid skin tones. It's your job as a photographer to make it work. To me the OP's argument is the same as saying

"I'm switching over to Canon because my Nikon is making my subjects look fat! I obsess so much about it making my subjects look fat, that I am ruining my relationship with my family."

There is the off chance that people get camera's that are duds. But to stereotype all Nikons or Canon's from your experience is !

Faintandfuzzy Veteran Member • Posts: 3,328
Re: Another fake "pro" bites the dust

Steve Bingham wrote:

Beware the "pro" wedding photographer that understands so little as the OP. There are a ton of wedding photographers out there, ranging from terrible to great. This guy has got to be in the bottom 10%. Love to see his "stuff". There are a TON of very successful wedding photographers relishing the D700 performance!!!!!!!!!

I've been loving the D700 since the day I got it. I'm just waiting for a D800 / D4 to be released and I'll pull the plug on Canon altogether. The skintones from D700 raw files are superb. The resolution is more than enough for most wedding/portrait work in all but the largest prints.

The real issue here has to do with the skills of the OP....not tha abilities of the camera. Plain and simple.

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Clayton1985 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,187
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

This whole thread would have been avoided if the OP would have read the book you suggested before posting. Some people think a rude post disguised as genuine is ok but it isn't.

gmosc Veteran Member • Posts: 5,950
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

Yeah, it's easy to attack a bumbling fool.

When I got a handicapped son I started to look at the world differently. I also start to see the sadness in how people with total control of their senses attack each other and how they attack weaker people. In this case the OP probably isn't the most up to date on tech, and the ones here who have it easy with modern tech don't see that it is possible someone gets lost within it all. It's sad. It's like they smelled blood. Someone weaker then them now deserves to be ridiculed.

They can then also say that he is a troll. Nice try. It's obvious he isn't, just confused. But once he is labeled a troll then the attackers get more courage to jump all over him. Shameful if you ask me. But you can't legislate courtesy or manners.

The saddest part for me is the 2 or 3 people I respect on this forum joined in on the free for all on the OP. Heck maybe they had a bad day and lost some photo gigs to some incompetent hacks and feel the need to take it out on this guy. Ok now they feel better.

Now that everyone feels better about putting this guy in his place we can all go on with helping each other for the ones who care to stick around.

Guy Moscoso

msjhaffey wrote:

I have a D700 that I am delighted with. So I am sad that the OP has struggled and failed to get results that satisfy him.

What saddens me a lot more is the rudeness that I have seen increasing across the dpreview boards. It seems it is not enough to disagree with someone but that ill-courtesy must follow with many posters. Many seem to justify it on the basis that "I have a right to my opinion". You do. But these boards would be more enjoyable and useful for all photographers if you kept intemperate language for your private thoughts.

May I suggest one book that would help all photographers, amateur and pro? It's Miss Manner's Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior by Judith Martin, available now from Amazon and all good bookshops.

-- hide signature --

Sean

André BARELIER
André BARELIER Veteran Member • Posts: 8,733
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

Well said, Guy.

A lot of people are completely brand addicted in this forum (same thing on the Canon forum).
That's a pity...
I can't (and will never) understand those childish behaviors.
Thank you for your post.
André

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Clayton1985 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,187
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

I'm open to different perpectives but each time I read a post from those defending the OPs behavior they totally avoid the real and very simple issue.

What was the intent of the OPs post? I've yet to see a logical answer.

Rens
Rens Senior Member • Posts: 1,682
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

gmosc wrote:

Yeah, it's easy to attack a bumbling fool.

While having no understanding of the OP's position, I personally was not upsett in the slightest by his post. Did it serve any purpose? Not really. Was it offensive? Not at all.

Like many others on this forum, I love my D700. But if he doesn't, even if he's completely wrong (and I think he is, for several reasons), there's no reason to be aggresive when replying.

Maybe he's right and Canon will solve his problems. I wouldn't know, I've never used a Canon DSLR. But whether or not it's Nikon's problem or his, rude responses arre not acceptable

Some may think his post childish, if so, so be it. No need to be childish back.

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Rens

There are optimists and there are realists

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Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

gmosc wrote:

Yeah, it's easy to attack a bumbling fool.

When I got a handicapped son I started to look at the world differently. I also start to see the sadness in how people with total control of their senses attack each other and how they attack weaker people. In this case the OP probably isn't the most up to date on tech, and the ones here who have it easy with modern tech don't see that it is possible someone gets lost within it all. It's sad. It's like they smelled blood. Someone weaker then them now deserves to be ridiculed.

They can then also say that he is a troll. Nice try. It's obvious he isn't, just confused. But once he is labeled a troll then the attackers get more courage to jump all over him. Shameful if you ask me. But you can't legislate courtesy or manners.

The saddest part for me is the 2 or 3 people I respect on this forum joined in on the free for all on the OP. Heck maybe they had a bad day and lost some photo gigs to some incompetent hacks and feel the need to take it out on this guy. Ok now they feel better.

Now that everyone feels better about putting this guy in his place we can all go on with helping each other for the ones who care to stick around.

Guy Moscoso

You complain about people being rude to him, but here you are calling him a bumbling fool and comparing him to a mentally handicapped person. I think that ranks up there with the most insulting post in this thread.

Go read the OP again. This guy didn't come here to ask for help. He walked into a biker bar and shouted, "Harleys suck, and I hate them." He already sold his D700 and bought Canon. He doesn't want to know how to get decent color from a D700. He just wanted to bitch about how Nikon is responsible for his failure. He came here with an insult and got shown to be a fool.

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Faintandfuzzy Veteran Member • Posts: 3,328
What camera?

Never heard of a D7 or D600. You went to a crop body.

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OP Peter M J Regular Member • Posts: 188
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

At no stage have I said that Nikon sucks and at no stage have I said I hate nikons. Also at no stage have I been abusive about anyone or anything. If some people were not quite so precious and actually read what i said they might have noticed that I havent sold the Nikons. I also do not "claim " to have photographed weddings since 1969 - I have. At no stage have I said that all I wanted was apoint and shoot camera. What I said was that cameras of this calibre and quality should be capable of producing accurate colours and good skin tones without the need to spend hours ( which I have done ) in PP work to achieve something which while pleasing may not be particularly accurate - and I stick by this. There seems to be a little of the Emperors new clothes about all of this- I suspect I am not the only one to encounter this problem

gmosc Veteran Member • Posts: 5,950
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

Robin,

I've given up and accepted what everyone on this thread has agreed upon. Now there is no chance of anyone accusing me of defending him. Now we are all equally hip in our attacks.

By the way. I was putting into words what everyone here was saying, which then was supposed to make you realize that I have a bumbling fool in my house. Sorry you didn't catch the attempt at being clever. Now you know what I mean. No hard feelings.

And if anything, I think the OP has read EVERY post on this thread and recognizes what I thought about him. (That has been my assumption from the start- that he is a passive user of Dpreview therefore the lack of history of posting). He even recognizes that I was one of the few who made attempts to understand his position. And if he was a troll then he is laughing at me for wasting my time. That doesn't bother me at all.

(Just for my own sanity, is Robin a guy or girl name? I know both guys and girls with the name. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable referring to posts of yours because I feel I'm going to say something like he or she by mistake).

And my son by the way is VERY happy although non functional and will always be in care of the state. So nobody needs to feel sorry for us. We are lucky compared to other families with autists. (I didn't say blessed since I don't think god had anything to do with making his handicap)

A side note here... I was talking to a blind musician friend recently and mentioned our son and mentioned that our son never leaves the house so there pretty much always needs to be one of us in the house. I take this as normal but my blind "handicapped" friend exclaimed "what! that's terrible!" Which shocked me because I saw him as handicapped, which he himself seemed to not agree with. I thought he would understand... but it made me think a little.... Either me or my wife has always been in our house when our son is home (he's 12). Seems normal to me, but I guess other people get out more.

Which leads to dpreview. I sort of lead a life that mirrors the stereotypical guy-in-a-wheel chair sitting behind his computer to "get out of the house".

In a loose sense the forums I frequent have become my family. I have been checking dpreview for a couple of years. First the Lumix forums then the D50 now this one. The friendliness of these forums has gone downhill which is probably normal going from consumer cam to entry DSLR, and now to "pro" forum. But I gotta tell ya, the pro musicians I work with, are NEVER nasty like some of these "pro" photographers here.

I attribute that to the fact that musicians work together (most can't play unless there is another person accompanying him, helping each other every moment), compared to photography which is a solitary endeavor. That doesn't always build social skills and makes people see their work as a direct contrast or competition to other photographers. A musician gains by making the other person sound good whereas a photographer gains little directly.

I think that there even might be something hidden in all these attacks here. Lots of people almost seem to feel like they've lost the chance to set this guy straight on how to PP. That seems to have frustrated lots of people. (but this is just a pet theory I have)

So in short, I doubt the OP has mistaken my intent. (unless he confused my posts with some of the others who have "guy" in their username. Yes I've actually thought about that)

By the way, I think he still has the cameras so all is not lost, though I'm not sure he would feel welcome back after this thread.

Guy Moscoso

Robin Casady wrote:

He already sold his D700 and bought Canon.

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Robin Casady

Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 30,730
Re: Is there no room for courtesy on dpreview?

Peter M J wrote:

At no stage have I said that Nikon sucks and at no stage have I said I hate nikons. Also at no stage have I been abusive about anyone or anything. If some people were not quite so precious and actually read what i said they might have noticed that I havent sold the Nikons. I also do not "claim " to have photographed weddings since 1969 - I have. At no stage have I said that all I wanted was apoint and shoot camera. What I said was that cameras of this calibre and quality should be capable of producing accurate colours and good skin tones without the need to spend hours ( which I have done ) in PP work to achieve something which while pleasing may not be particularly accurate - and I stick by this. There seems to be a little of the Emperors new clothes about all of this- I suspect I am not the only one to encounter this problem

And the point of your original post was?

To stick the boot in? Justify your purchase?

Or was it simply to lead us all into the path of righteousness? Let us "see the light oh brother and switch to Canon!" LOL.

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André BARELIER
André BARELIER Veteran Member • Posts: 8,733
Rens...

Not sure : are you replying to me ?
If so, I think you misunderstood me, but it's probably due to my poor english.

When I used the term "childish", I was not refering to the OP post, but to the replies he received after moving to Canon.

I don't have a D700, and I don't know if the OP is wrong or right, but my feelings are exactly the same as yours.
André

Rens wrote:

gmosc wrote:

Yeah, it's easy to attack a bumbling fool.

While having no understanding of the OP's position, I personally was not upsett in the slightest by his post. Did it serve any purpose? Not really. Was it offensive? Not at all.

Like many others on this forum, I love my D700. But if he doesn't, even if he's completely wrong (and I think he is, for several reasons), there's no reason to be aggresive when replying.

Maybe he's right and Canon will solve his problems. I wouldn't know, I've never used a Canon DSLR. But whether or not it's Nikon's problem or his, rude responses arre not acceptable

Some may think his post childish, if so, so be it. No need to be childish back.

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Rens

There are optimists and there are realists

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Rens
Rens Senior Member • Posts: 1,682
Re: Rens...

andrbar wrote:

Not sure : are you replying to me ?

Not at all, I'm agreeing with you. The childishness is from those who rush to vilify a harmless (though probably misguided) post in such hysyterical and aggressive terms.

They show in a much worse light than the OP.

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Rens

There are optimists and there are realists

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