What Hoya thinks of the USA and Europe

Started Apr 17, 2011 | Discussions
Winder Senior Member • Posts: 1,545
Re: Restore faith.

Pentax is just becoming profitable again after going down hill for years. It will take time for them to build the resources they need to develop product.

I actually worry that if Pentax is developing a mirror-less system it will take away resources from the DSLR division. It became apparent with Olympus that they did not have the resources to develop two lines.

I think the 645D is relevant. It puts Pentax back on the map for commercial photographers and increases their brand visibility.

I would love to see Pentax introduce a FF body, but they don't have the resources to invest at this time. They would need at least 5 new lenses to go in that direction and depend heavily on Sigma to fill gaps.

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Contax 645, Canon 5D, Olympus E-3 (sold), Playing with a K-7

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Les Lammers
Les Lammers Veteran Member • Posts: 3,957
Re: What Hoya thinks of the USA and Europe

I am right there with you. For the time being a K5 and DA Limiteds work for me.

I have no interest in bowling ball size DSLR's. Pentax has always been a niche company that offers good value.

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Britney Elvis Veteran Member • Posts: 5,374
The only way we will see a new flash...

jamesm007 wrote:

From Hoya Share Holders Meeting -

"There are some sales channels that allow us to expect growth in terms of quantity but do not contribute to earnings because cameras are sold at discounted prices. We have maintained our prices by avoiding these sales channels. So we restrict sales channels in areas including Europe and the United States, and we do not sell large volumes of cameras but are enjoying growth in income."

http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/d0h4dj00000014ze-att/d0h4dj0000001cj5.pdf

Well they have shown us this in actions for the last 3 years... nice to finally see it out of the horses mouth. Essentially the believe they can put out a below average lens with a WR in the name and no matter how bad it is, we will still pay too much for it.

Other than the K-5 has Pentax grown any better overall as a dSLR company compared to last year? Lens, flashes, availability in stores (even if far from home)?

The only way we will see a new Hi Quality flash released from these guys, is if some genius at Pentax/Hoya finally realizes they can make the AF 540 in pink! THis is their mentalitly now. We have to get used to it.

Colored Flashes -- you heard it here first!

Pentax does not have the resource to innovate and is making a mistake by not trying to capture as many new users as possible for its future. Hoya only seems to care about this quarters and next quarters profit. That's fine but what about long term. Lens such as the DA18-135mm WR and cameras with QC problems will be the norm. Moreover put off prospective buyers of the Pentax system.

Rant because the DA18-135mm WR at its price should have been a decent lens and not show tremendous CA/PF and soft corners (not deep corners but into the frame softness). There is a reason for this.

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Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Britney Elvis Veteran Member • Posts: 5,374
See no

I have been here since the K100d... and this has been the mantra the entire time. First with Pentax and now with Hoya...
And Hoya is more mute, deaf and color blind than Pentax was...

They have carried on the same 'See no, Hear no, Speak no...

coleviolin wrote:

As in a marriage between two people, there needs to be a shared commitment to constantly restore faith. Pentax needs to show some improvement with quality on these new camera bodies and lenses, update firmware to fix autofocus or make some commitment to restore faith in SDM focus lenses. These things really matter.
--
Lipo

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'Nothing is worse than active ignorance'

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ropen Senior Member • Posts: 1,479
Re: The only way we will see a new flash...

Britney Elvis wrote:

jamesm007 wrote:

From Hoya Share Holders Meeting -

"There are some sales channels that allow us to expect growth in terms of quantity but do not contribute to earnings because cameras are sold at discounted prices. We have maintained our prices by avoiding these sales channels. So we restrict sales channels in areas including Europe and the United States, and we do not sell large volumes of cameras but are enjoying growth in income."

http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/d0h4dj00000014ze-att/d0h4dj0000001cj5.pdf

Well they have shown us this in actions for the last 3 years... nice to finally see it out of the horses mouth. Essentially the believe they can put out a below average lens with a WR in the name and no matter how bad it is, we will still pay too much for it.

First of all who's "we", because for sure you don't qualify! And about the bellow average lenses with a WR in name I suppose that you're talking about D FA 100 Macro WR?

Other than the K-5 has Pentax grown any better overall as a dSLR company compared to last year? Lens, flashes, availability in stores (even if far from home)?

The only way we will see a new Hi Quality flash released from these guys, is if some genius at Pentax/Hoya finally realizes they can make the AF 540 in pink! THis is their mentalitly now. We have to get used to it.

Colored Flashes -- you heard it here first!

Since you asked specifically about a flash not flash system I would advise you towards the Metz 58 AF-2 as the best flash available for Pentax right now. But I have a hunch that you don't want to buy but to whine.

Radu

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Britney Elvis Veteran Member • Posts: 5,374
Nice to see again Radu...

Hi Radu

Thanks for all comments on my recent photo posts. Your thoughtful comments and constructive help are much appreciated. I grow as a photographer because you and others are willing to take your time to help.

ropen wrote:

Britney Elvis wrote:

jamesm007 wrote:

From Hoya Share Holders Meeting -

"There are some sales channels that allow us to expect growth in terms of quantity but do not contribute to earnings because cameras are sold at discounted prices. We have maintained our prices by avoiding these sales channels. So we restrict sales channels in areas including Europe and the United States, and we do not sell large volumes of cameras but are enjoying growth in income."

http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/d0h4dj00000014ze-att/d0h4dj0000001cj5.pdf

Well they have shown us this in actions for the last 3 years... nice to finally see it out of the horses mouth. Essentially the believe they can put out a below average lens with a WR in the name and no matter how bad it is, we will still pay too much for it.

First of all who's "we", because for sure you don't qualify! And about the bellow average lenses with a WR in name I suppose that you're talking about D FA 100 Macro WR?

You are correct, I have not bought a pentax lens since hoya jacked the prices up.

Other than the K-5 has Pentax grown any better overall as a dSLR company compared to last year? Lens, flashes, availability in stores (even if far from home)?

The only way we will see a new Hi Quality flash released from these guys, is if some genius at Pentax/Hoya finally realizes they can make the AF 540 in pink! THis is their mentalitly now. We have to get used to it.

Colored Flashes -- you heard it here first!

Since you asked specifically about a flash not flash system I would advise you towards the Metz 58 AF-2 as the best flash available for Pentax right now. But I have a hunch that you don't want to buy but to whine.

Agreed, 'third party' seems to be the way to go for not only flashes, but lenses as well. Not sure that is exactly the answer Hoya/Pentax would like to hear... but at least we agree that the 5 year old AF540 needs to be updated even if it has to be from another manufacturer. My guess is the next flash from pentax will be a small, simple flash that you can order in multi-colors to match or compliment the colored Dslr's that Pentax has become the technological leader in. In this category, no other manufacturer comes close.

Thanks again for the continued help with my photography... we may disagree on the direction Hoya has taken Pentax. But when it comes to the art of photography, we are simpatico...

gus

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'Nothing is worse than active ignorance'

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Britney Elvis Veteran Member • Posts: 5,374
Re: Hi James

Jimbob Productions wrote:

How's things?

When companies talk of regions and markets they rarely equate that to countries or people - so don't take it to heart.

I guess what Pentax were getting at is that with the state of the world economy, rather than produce a lot of cameras and lenses that won't get purchased - they'll withhold until things look a bit more positive.

You don't always need to sell in high quantities - it's all about supply and demand.

Pentax reduced the amount of stock they held in US retail chains and really dodged a bullet with the Ritz/Wolf issues. Same in the UK with Jessops. Other companies really got burned.

Just wanted to chime in on the Ritz/Wolf issue. I live in San Francisco (a large US market) and we had three Ritz and a Wolf camera in the city. Pentax never had any real presence in those stores. A K100 and K10 on the shelf with a 18-55 and a 50-200. Even they were often just display models and you would need to order to get those. It was such big news when Wolf got a FA 50 in stock that they actually emailed me. I am not sure Pentax had enough exposure in those stores to have been hurt like Can/nikon.

It is a risky line to walk, when the economies are tight... and your answer as a company is to raise your prices to go for more profit margin from fewer customer.

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Winder Senior Member • Posts: 1,545
Re: Hi James

Pentax was dying when Hoya bought them. There would be no Pentax if not for Hoya.
--
Contax 645, Canon 5D, Olympus E-3 (sold), Playing with a K-7

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Britney Elvis Veteran Member • Posts: 5,374
Maybe pentax was dying when Hoya bought them...

Winder wrote:

Pentax was dying when Hoya bought them. There would be no Pentax if not for Hoya.
--
Contax 645, Canon 5D, Olympus E-3 (sold), Playing with a K-7

But Pentax was making many of the mistakes that Hoya is now... Ignoring known problems, not adddressing Qc issues...

The main thing hoya has done is bring colored bodies and gak to the market. The Kx -K7 - Kr issues have gone unaddressed... SDM? Pentax and Hoya in full see no evil mode. High prices....

Some keep comparing Pentax to apple... apple computers would be on life support at best if not for the iPhone - iPad and all the other innovative devices... The high priced computer model as success story is a bit of a lie. And if Hoya is banking on colored bodies and overpriced entry level lenses to be their "iPhones & iPads" they are

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Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 7,230
Re: What Hoya thinks of the USA and Europe

Yes, Pentax market share is much smaller than Canon or Nikon. But that's history; how it happened isn't really important anymore. The question is how you survive in such a position?

You can't compete by selling the same thing as the big guys, only cheaper. Without their economies of scale, you're just asking to lose money.

The way you compete is by offering something the others don't - give people a reason to choose your equipment over theirs. Pentax has 3 things that they do well: compact camera bodies, prime lenses, and weather sealing. As long as they keep focused on the things they do well without screwing anything else up, they'll do OK.

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brecklundin Senior Member • Posts: 1,995
Re: Hi James

Winder wrote:

Pentax was dying when Hoya bought them. There would be no Pentax if not for Hoya.

I do not buy into Pentax dying. Some company was going to buy them, if at a fire-sale price just to get their hands on the lense patents as well as the medical imaging division. Of course whoever else might have bought the company might have just fired everyone as well as simply put their mount onto the existing Pentax glass. But I doubt the brand was ever in jeopardy if being shut down.

Big brands with such a loyalist following that dates back decades, in fact to the beginning of the SLR era don't go away. But that is not saying the brand could have changed if bought buy a bigger fish, like Samsung or ???, with their own corporate way of things.

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Winder Senior Member • Posts: 1,545
Re: Maybe pentax was dying when Hoya bought them...

Britney Elvis wrote:

Winder wrote:

Pentax was dying when Hoya bought them. There would be no Pentax if not for Hoya.
--
Contax 645, Canon 5D, Olympus E-3 (sold), Playing with a K-7

But Pentax was making many of the mistakes that Hoya is now... Ignoring known problems, not adddressing Qc issues...

The main thing hoya has done is bring colored bodies and gak to the market. The Kx -K7 - Kr issues have gone unaddressed... SDM? Pentax and Hoya in full see no evil mode. High prices....

Move on to another system if Hoya/Pentax is causing you so much trouble.

Go to Nikon where they complain about no real HD video to compare with Canon. Not having a 25MP body for under $3,000 like Sony or Canon. Why doesn't Nikon listen to their users and give them a 25MP FF body with HD video to compete with Canon.

Or maybe go to Canon where they complain about not having Nikon AF or the high-ISO of Nikon. All Canon does is jack up the MP count every couple of years and ignore what their customers want.

Join Sony/Minolta users as they watch the as Sony moves away from traditional DSLR. They discontinued the A700 over a year ago and still have not introduced a replacement. The A900 has no live view or HD video.

Maybe you would be happier with Olympus. Invest a bunch of money in SHG glass for 4/3 bodies like the E-5. IT only took Olympus 3 years to bring out a slightly improved version of the E-3. How about some fast primes for 4/3 bodies?

Maybe Fuji DSLRs are what you are looking for.

This is what I love about the forums. Everyone complains about everything.

Pentax is a company of limited resources. They have to do what will make them the most money. Red K-x's sold like crazy. I don't want one, but they were big sellers. The average window licker does not know a d@mn thing about cameras or DR/ISO/Color depth/S/N ratios..... but that red one looks cool.... = $$$$ for Pentax. Pentax is listening to those customers because they spend money and they outnumber the K-5 buyers 50 to 1.

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Britney Elvis Veteran Member • Posts: 5,374
Re: Maybe pentax was dying when Hoya bought them...

Winder wrote:

Britney Elvis wrote:

Winder wrote:

Pentax was dying when Hoya bought them. There would be no Pentax if not for Hoya.
--
Contax 645, Canon 5D, Olympus E-3 (sold), Playing with a K-7

But Pentax was making many of the mistakes that Hoya is now... Ignoring known problems, not adddressing Qc issues...

The main thing hoya has done is bring colored bodies and gak to the market. The Kx -K7 - Kr issues have gone unaddressed... SDM? Pentax and Hoya in full see no evil mode. High prices....

Move on to another system if Hoya/Pentax is causing you so much trouble.

Go to Nikon where they complain about no real HD video to compare with Canon. Not having a 25MP body for under $3,000 like Sony or Canon. Why doesn't Nikon listen to their users and give them a 25MP FF body with HD video to compete with Canon.

Or maybe go to Canon where they complain about not having Nikon AF or the high-ISO of Nikon. All Canon does is jack up the MP count every couple of years and ignore what their customers want.

Join Sony/Minolta users as they watch the as Sony moves away from traditional DSLR. They discontinued the A700 over a year ago and still have not introduced a replacement. The A900 has no live view or HD video.

Maybe you would be happier with Olympus. Invest a bunch of money in SHG glass for 4/3 bodies like the E-5. IT only took Olympus 3 years to bring out a slightly improved version of the E-3. How about some fast primes for 4/3 bodies?

Maybe Fuji DSLRs are what you are looking for.

This is what I love about the forums. Everyone complains about everything.

Pentax is a company of limited resources. They have to do what will make them the most money. Red K-x's sold like crazy. I don't want one, but they were big sellers. The average window licker does not know a d@mn thing about cameras or DR/ISO/Color depth/S/N ratios..... but that red one looks cool.... = $$$$ for Pentax. Pentax is listening to those customers because they spend money and they outnumber the K-5 buyers 50 to 1.

This is what I love about forums... folks with enough money to have 3 or 4 high end systems coming on the forums telling folks who can only afford the basics that they should not complain if the have issues and telling them they should buy some other product. I cant afford that luxury...

I have Pentax, I shoot Pentax. I enjoy the backwards compatibility to the old MF glass as I can no longer afford any of the Pentax lenses, I can no longer afford to upgrade to something as expensive as the K5... Is it too much to ask them to stop ignoring the problems with their cameras, their sdm zoom lenses and their flashes.
You and some others may be able to buy many different systems...

Red K-x's ? Outselling the K-5 50 to 1...? That is a good thing for hoya. Cause people who buy a camera because it matches their purse, dont give a hoot in hades if it blurs at 1/100... cause they are in auto and using the built in flash most of the time!

This is when Hoya/Pentax is going to address the Qc problems --- Tomorrow

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