Prices...What The...???

Started Apr 14, 2011 | Discussions
tundracamper Senior Member • Posts: 1,818
Re: Prices...What The...???

moimoi wrote:

In any event, I would stop buying unless there is a major cut in price.

And when everyone stops buying, the price comes down. Apparently, the free market concept isn't very clear. I just paid way more for a lens than the price three weeks ago and I'm not complaining. Although I'm not really happy, that's just the way things work. If you want it, you pay the asking price because obviously the lenses are still selling at the higher prices. I am sure that the news of a Nikon plant closing helped elevate those prices.

moimoi
OP moimoi Veteran Member • Posts: 4,017
Re: Look at the price of a new D700!!!

Digetydog wrote:

moimoi wrote:

Amazon and Adorama > 3000 USD

There has been a supply disruption. When supply goes down, prices gio up. It is as simple as that. While some of the disruption is at Nikon plants, there are also disruptions with suppliers, employee issues, and transportation.

For people who are claiming gouging, imagine you sell 100 units per month at an average price of $1000. Your revenues are $100,000 per month. You have a 1 month supply on hand. Your supplier calls you up and says there will be a 2 month delay before you get any more shipments. Once shipments resume, your units per month may not get back to normal for six month. All your competitors are going through similar problems.

What do you do?

1. Raise price as much as possible on your existiting units b/c once they are gone, they are gone.

2. When new units start ariving, you keep prices as high as possible so that you make up as much of the lost revenue as possible.

Interesting! What if people are more and more reluctant to buy (or even stop buying) the units b/c their price was raised significantly. In other words, what would happen if the demand decreases significantly (and we do have control on our actions I believe) while the supplies also decrease?

 moimoi's gear list:moimoi's gear list
Fujifilm X100T Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 16-35mm F4L IS USM +3 more
tyyreaun Contributing Member • Posts: 523
Re: Prices...What The...???

moimoi wrote:

Yes, that's indeed correct. However, was Sendai's plant the only one dedicated to high-end glass and bodies? In that case, that would be a mistake to centralize the making of high-end products in just one place.

I would assume that the industrial equipment required to manufacture to Nikon's pro tolerances isn't cheap. That, and the worldwide volumes probably aren't that high to justify having more than one facility.

We're talking about cameras and lenses, here. It's not like orphans and kittens are going to die if the supply is disrupted for a few months, so I doubt Nikon went to great lengths to ensure redundancy and immediate disaster recovery.

To the best of my knowledge, all D7000s are assembled in Thailand, most likely in a single facility. If Thailand's political situation flares up again, expect those to in be in short(er) supply, too.

So, that would be a retailer issue, taking advantage of the situation to "inflate" significantly the prices. No laws in the US preventing such actions?

As someone mentioned, there are probably laws against setting extreme prices for basic staple goods during emergencies, but that will cover stuff like food and water. I doubt any state or nation will ever pass a law guaranteeing your fundamental right to cheap camera equipment.

Consider how stuff like the D7000 and the 35mm f/1.8 DX regularly sold for well above MSRP prior to the earthquake, simply due to lack of supply.

Assuming they don't have the inventory...that we don't know for sure..

True - they may simply be hoarding the product expecting prices to go up higher. However, that wouldn't make much business sense. Prices are already well above MSRP, and the situation in Japan is stabilizing. I would guess prices will come back down pretty soon - especially once Nikon announces their long-term recovery plans, quelling the panic.

Same with gas in the US after Katrina - it spiked for a week or so but came back down pretty quickly, once the damage was fully assessed and people realized we weren't all doomed.

Note that I'm not saying what the retailers are doing is moral - nor am I saying it's immoral. However, it is legal (to the best of my knowledge) and it follows the basic laws of economics, making it good business sense.

Maybe. Unless there is a higher demand...and I believe for the race FX has been running faster than ever

If there is higher demand, then that's even more reason for prices to go up if supply has been disrupted. Given the high price of pro lenses, I doubt any retailer was holding significant inventory in stock, just in case. The holding cost (mainly, opportunity cost on the capital tied up in inventory) would crush them.

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Nikon D750 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-TX30 Samyang 14mm F2.8 IF ED MC Aspherical Voigtlander 28mm F2.8 Color Skopar SL II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-35mm f/3.5-4.5G ED +2 more
LX93 Senior Member • Posts: 1,118
Re: "M" for "minimum"

Literally, "gouging" means to cut something out, as in a close-combat wartime situation where someone cuts out their opponent's eye.

In the case of "price gouging", it would mean to charge a ridiculous price because you know the other person needs something really bad.

For the record, I am with the crowd that feels the individual consumer is best to decide what is "fair", not a group of incompetent or corrupt govt. bureaucrats. If you think the price is not "fair", then sell your Nikon stuff (at "fair" prices") & buy Canon.

moimoi wrote:

Can you give us further details about this "Price gouging"? As I am not a native English speaker, I failed to understand the term gouging. Did you mean fluctuations? Are there any laws restricting possible abuses in price fluctuation?

 LX93's gear list:LX93's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Nikon D700 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Sigma 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +9 more
Digetydog
Digetydog Senior Member • Posts: 1,461
Re: Look at the price of a new D700!!!

Interesting! What if people are more and more reluctant to buy (or even stop buying) the units b/c their price was raised significantly. In other words, what would happen if the demand decreases significantly (and we do have control on our actions I believe) while the supplies also decrease?

Essentially, the supply curve has shifted to the left meaning prices will rise. If sellers raise prices too much, they won't find the market clearing price. Eventually, prices will settle at the market clearing price and prices will be higher until supply returns to normal.

 Digetydog's gear list:Digetydog's gear list
Nikon D610 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Tamron SP 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD +6 more
Digetydog
Digetydog Senior Member • Posts: 1,461
Re: Prices...What The...???

tundracamper wrote:

moimoi wrote:

In any event, I would stop buying unless there is a major cut in price.

And when everyone stops buying, the price comes down. Apparently, the free market concept isn't very clear. I just paid way more for a lens than the price three weeks ago and I'm not complaining. Although I'm not really happy, that's just the way things work. If you want it, you pay the asking price because obviously the lenses are still selling at the higher prices. I am sure that the news of a Nikon plant closing helped elevate those prices.

As a smart consumer, we can modify the impact of supply/demand on the prices we pay by buying at times of perceived oversupply. If you don't buy when you truly "need" something, you can often get a good price. If you "need" to buy something, you are at the mercy of the pricing at the time - even if they are bad prices.

Shortly after Christmas, I bought a 70-200mm VR1 for the purpose of shooting photos of my daughter at sporting events and school functions. Since she is 7 months old, I obviously didn't need the lens immediately. Why did I buy? I got a very good price on a like new model. Even though I didn't need it "now," I knew that I would eventually get one. If I tried to buy that lens used today, it would probably cost me an extra $300. Compared to the VRII, I saved a $1000.

For those of us that are not professionals, lenses and cameras are rarely an immediate "need." Simply put, they are a luxury. To save money, hobbiest should identify their wants and take advantage of times of oversupply. In times like today, we wait until things return to normal.

 Digetydog's gear list:Digetydog's gear list
Nikon D610 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Tamron SP 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD +6 more
nkarasev Senior Member • Posts: 1,499
Re: Prices...What The...???

moimoi wrote:

Hi to everyone,

I am not sure if you are following, but prices for Nikon lenses (specially pro glass) are becoming less and less reasonable. I am not sure whether it is due to a strong yen vs. weak American dollar or not, but buying 2995.00 USD for the 70-200 F/2.8 VR II is absolutely ridiculous.

I have been checking the prices for professional glass, and that's just nonsense. There has been at least a minimum of 200 USD increase for a 24-70mm f/2.8 for instance. Same thing happened with the D700, which is now overpriced on Amazon.

What are you opinions regarding this issue? I would be very much interested in your point of views. What are your expectations in a near future? Will you still keep buying pieces of equipment even though the price still increases?

Most likely due to the quake.

People who need equipment today will pay any price, while those who want to save should wait until supply becomes normal. Might take a year.

In either case whining won't give any credit.

Nik

theknub New Member • Posts: 6
Re: Prices...What The...???

Not quite sure if your problem is real. At Henry's, in Canada, the 70-200 is on sale, at a price of $2200, next day shipping. This is $200 less than the "normal" price. So where is the difficulty?

 theknub's gear list:theknub's gear list
Sony RX100 III Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro
moimoi
OP moimoi Veteran Member • Posts: 4,017
Re: Prices...What The...???

Check Amazon USA and you will find out what the problem is

 moimoi's gear list:moimoi's gear list
Fujifilm X100T Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 16-35mm F4L IS USM +3 more
02125906 Contributing Member • Posts: 900
Re: Prices...What The...???

I don't think it's too expensive. It's only 2750 here. Not that I'm interested in buying it.

JC1306 Senior Member • Posts: 1,139
Re: Prices...What The...???

Ilkka Nissilä wrote:

In Finland the price of that lens is 2100€, which is 100-200€ less than I recall paying about 15 months ago. Pretty normal price development I'd say.

Here in the Netherlands the lowest price is € 1850. Prices dropped sharply from a ridiculous €4000 at introduction to a more reasonable €2500 in the fall of '09. Prices then went down a bit more in the first half of '10 and since then have been fluctuating between €1800 and €2200.

Not so with the D700, D3s, D3x and the super teles; all those have gone up by about €200 since the quake. And that's if you can actually get one.

Jarno
--
Photos at http://jarno.smugmug.com

JC1306 Senior Member • Posts: 1,139
Re: Prices...What The...???

ponger wrote:

B&H photo listed the 70-200 at $2449 today (April 14, 2011). It's not in stock but that's their price. You HAVE to have the lens tody then you pay the premium
from whoever has it in stock at their price. Capitalism at it's finest.

Good, fast, cheap - pick any two. That's the way it has been for the last 2000 years, give or take a century. And since the 70-200 VRII only comes in "good", there's only two left to choose from unless you choose not to buy at all. It's not pleasant and it's not fair but it's reality.

Jarno
--
Photos at http://jarno.smugmug.com

Ronald Ran Contributing Member • Posts: 659
Re:Nikon store refurbished

You might check out refurbished lens at Nikon store. Probably comes with 1 year warranty. But at current price differences (on street) any future repair (seems to be around average of $400 on any lens) you would still be ahead.

Ronald
--
Nikon D300

JC1306 Senior Member • Posts: 1,139
Re:Nikon store refurbished

Ronald Ran wrote:

You might check out refurbished lens at Nikon store.

Thanks for the tip but I don't need to. I already had the 70-200 VRII and two weeks after the earthquake there was a dip in the price of the D3s so I snatched one of the last ones in stock. My wallet is still moaning but since then the price has gone up by €200 and stocks are running low so I feel I made the right choice. Besides, shouldn't we all support our favourite camera brand in these troubled times? (And if need be I'll make up some more excuses to give in to my NAS).

Jarno
--
Photos at http://jarno.smugmug.com

pierre1
pierre1 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,970
On the bright side resale value..

goes up and you can get close to your money back on Craigslist or other selling newer gear you may not have been happy with.

Pierre

Royson58 Regular Member • Posts: 351
Actually, Yes, and No.

I messed up using MSRP, when I ment to use MAP for "Minimum Advertised Price", which is the price a dealer agrees to meet in order to qualify for Co-Op funds.

erringtont
erringtont Regular Member • Posts: 313
Re: The "S" is key

Royson58 wrote:

MSRP stands for "Minimum Suggested Retail Price", and is only a guideline for dealers concerning issues like Co-Op allowances. Charging more is neither illegal or against dealers' contract with Nikon, etc.

"Price gouging" laws vary from state to state, but typically only apply to staples needed for survival (e.g. food and gasoline).

MSRP. The S stands for "suggested". Retailers can legally charge whatever they wish in the US. Fair trade, on this type of goods, went away in the 70's.

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Nikon D810 Sony a6300 Nikon D500 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 10-24mm f/3-5-4.5G ED +10 more
larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 5,879
Re: On the bright side resale value..

Supply and demand and the printing of the us dollar when the usa is borrowing money is the real problem. As transportation costs go up, then the price of goods go up. The us dollar has devalued because of the gov't spending money they don't have. The usa has to produce manufactured products and quite importing stuff we should be making here.

If the products are too pricey for me, I just can not buy the product and be happy with what I have.

Larry

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erringtont
erringtont Regular Member • Posts: 313
Look more closely at Amazon

moimoi wrote:

Check Amazon USA and you will find out what the problem is

That's not Amazon's price. It's Ace Photo's price. And Ace Photo is not listed on NikonUSA as an authorized online dealer, so the lens may likely be gray market as well.

 erringtont's gear list:erringtont's gear list
Nikon D810 Sony a6300 Nikon D500 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 10-24mm f/3-5-4.5G ED +10 more
FredB Contributing Member • Posts: 828
Re: Prices...What The...???

I find it funny that people expect us to just sit back and suck it up and pay the 3K, but let the gas prices rise 10cents and their in the streets.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30939186@N04/

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Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 R Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm 1:2.8 Macro +6 more
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