Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

Started Mar 18, 2011 | Discussions
JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,612
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

On an iPad? Tell me how.
Jules

EWern wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

Doesn't have Flash
Jules

If you need Flash (and many sites are switching to alternatives) you can use the Skyfire browser to view Flash content without worry that your system will crash (as my Windows laptop frequently does):

http://www.skyfire.com/product/ipad

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

The practical point is mainly in reference to the "non battery accessible" design on most of their products batteries wear out and it's little more than an obvious cash cow for the company.

Wow, a company figured out a way to make money. Shocking! That's life. That's business. Hey, I have Windows 7 on my PC's, even though the OS runs slower than XP! Microsoft is also milking an obvious cash cow with their Windows.

As far as computers go price any desktop Mac up and I could build one better faster and cheaper using very high quality components with ease so could any system builder they just don't stack up computers wise. Don't get me wrong the OS is nice but it's a heavy price to pay when you should have more hardware choices at more reasonable prices. Just add a ram upgrade to a Mac at an Apple store and you'll see what I mean!

So? Remember, I use Windows. I have all my life. I definitely know why I use Windows, vs Mac. Other than a first-gen iPod Shuffle I bought many years ago (the one that looked like a white pack of chewing gum), the iPad is only the second Apple product I've ever bought. But I do have to say that the quality of Mac products and the quality of their service is quite excellent. I have a friend who bought a refurb iPad off of the Apple online store last year (the first Apple product he as ever bought) after he saw my iPad. The wi-fi on his iPad worked for three days, then the wi-fi went dead. We set an appointment at the local Apple store via Apple's website, we took it in with no receipt, the Apple guy took a look at it, looked us up in the system, and said, "I'll go grab you a new one." We were done in less than ten minutes. No hassle, no fuss, no brain-dead teenage store clerk to try out patience, no lines. Just a simple, hassle-free, pleasant experience from people actually knew what they were talking about and seemed very well trained. After that, my friend and I were very impressed, and we could understand why people choose to pay more for Apple products. I don't think it's unreasonable to spend more money for a better experience.

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Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

T3 wrote:

Wow, a company figured out a way to make money. Shocking! That's life. That's business. Hey, I have Windows 7 on my PC's, even though the OS runs slower than XP! Microsoft is also milking an obvious cash cow with their Windows.

Wrong it's not you don't have to buy windows 7 it's a choice you can use your XP pc if you want to.

My remarks are specific to the battery no other maker would attempt to design a product that stops users getting easy access to with that in mind I'll have to disagree.

So? Remember, I use Windows. I have all my life. I definitely know why I use Windows, vs Mac. Other than a first-gen iPod Shuffle I bought many years ago (the one that looked like a white pack of chewing gum), the iPad is only the second Apple product I've ever bought. But I do have to say that the quality of Mac products and the quality of their service is quite excellent. I have a friend who bought a refurb iPad off of the Apple online store last year (the first Apple product he as ever bought) after he saw my iPad. The wi-fi on his iPad worked for three days, then the wi-fi went dead. We set an appointment at the local Apple store via Apple's website, we took it in with no receipt, the Apple guy took a look at it, looked us up in the system, and said, "I'll go grab you a new one." We were done in less than ten minutes. No hassle, no fuss, no brain-dead teenage store clerk to try out patience, no lines. Just a simple, hassle-free experience, pleasant experience. After that, my friend and I were very impressed, and we could understand why people choose to pay more for Apple products. I don't think it's unreasonable to spend more money for a better experience.

In a free market economy people are free to buy what they wish.

I admire Apple they have a unique ability to make products people want but that does not always mean they are the "best out there" I'm sure their service is good I've never doubted that.

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
Read It & Weep, re: battery replace. $99, iPad replaced!!!

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

My remarks are specific to the battery no other maker would attempt to design a product that stops users getting easy access to with that in mind I'll have to disagree.

Well, speaking of the battery on the iPad:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/dead-ipad-battery-never-mind-replacing-it-apple-just-sends-ano/

"What is iPad Battery Replacement Service?

If your iPad requires service due to the battery's diminished ability to hold an electrical charge, Apple will replace your iPad for a service fee."

"How much does it cost?

The service costs $99, plus $6.95 shipping. The total cost is $105.95 per unit.
All fees are in U.S. dollars and are subject to local tax."

Wow, how dare Apple replace the entire iPad for $99 plus S&H, rather than selling you a new battery!!!

Oh, and as for your comment that "no other manufacturer would attempt to design a product that stops users easy access" to the battery...the Motorola Xoom doesn't have an easy-access, user-replaceable battery either. Unless you think tearing down a Xoom is "easy-access, user-replaceable":

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Xoom-Teardown/4989/1

In a free market economy people are free to buy what they wish.

Yeah, and clearly the market is speaking. Heck, even a life long Windows user like me went out and bought an iPad. And I'm loving it.

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
Motorola Xoom doesn't have user replaceable battery either

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

Any company that can't design a product that allows easy access to the battery (ala not taking it apart) is seriously lacking in the design department.

I guess that applies to the Motorola Xoom, too. No user replaceable battery either. You have to take it apart:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Xoom-Teardown/4989/1

Of course some might say it's a cash cow to get users to send their Apple stuff back at a cost for replacement batteries.

For $99, you get your iPad replaced.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/dead-ipad-battery-never-mind-replacing-it-apple-just-sends-ano/

Most laptop replacement batteries alone will cost about that much anyways! At least that much! For example, a replacement battery for a 10" Dell Inspiron Mini netbook costs $149!

I won't touch Apple products because of this.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

JulesJ wrote:

On an iPad? Tell me how.
Jules

You can use the Skyfire browser for iPad, but I use iSwifter. It works better. Basically, the Flash site gets rendered on iSwifter's servers and gets sent to your iPad. So the processing is done on their end, not yours.

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
Same with Samsung Galaxy Tab

T3 wrote:

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

Any company that can't design a product that allows easy access to the battery (ala not taking it apart) is seriously lacking in the design department.

I guess that applies to the Motorola Xoom, too. No user replaceable battery either. You have to take it apart:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Xoom-Teardown/4989/1

Oh, and did I mention the Samsung Galaxy Tab doesn't have a user accessible battery either (at least not without a teardown)?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/02/samsung-galaxy-tab-undressed-reveals-massive-battery-video/

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princewolf Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

I never intended to offend anyone's convictions and I do apologize if I have done so. But here Barry and I are left on the defensive for criticizing Apple. Again, I have no judgement whether you spend your bucks on anything. But if I may, I will point out the shortcomings of a hardware as I see them. And the shortcoming in this case is that you can get tablet PCs that can do more or less the same work done. Yeah, in some you don't get auto orientation, or finger sweep zoom or all those features. But in my opinion it doesn't justify the price difference. If having this opinion leads to being lynched for not getting Apple, then so be it.

As for Leica, please note I have inserted the word SOME but NOT ALL models. By the way I never owned a real Leica(I don't count the Pana-icas) If you build a Full Frame range-finder with an optical viewfinder in a tough package and better interface(where Leica does indeed need some improvement), AND make it cheaper, I'll buy from you I promise.

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Jon Rty Veteran Member • Posts: 3,838
Re: get both

The thing is, there's tablet computers, and the modern day ARM based phone-esque tablets. And you'll have to really consider your needs when going with a ARM based tablet to be sure you're willing to sacrifice all that computing power, software-support, calibration and connectivity just for half a kilo in weight, less than one centimeter in thickness and a couple of hours of battery life.

T3 wrote:

Why can't a serious photographer get both? A laptop has its advantages, and an iPad has its advantages.

For example, I have a 17" Windows laptop, a 13" Windows laptop, and an iPad (all of which can be seen below). Each has value to me. But I can definitely tell you this: when I am out and about, or meeting with clients, or on a shoot, the only thing I take with me is my iPad...not my laptops.

Also, the thing about these smaller laptops with their widescreens is that while images may look nice in landscape orientation, images look way too small when they are portrait orientation images! With an iPad, you can turn it to portrait orientation, which means portraits can be viewed with a vertical height of 8 inches, which is much taller than what you're going to get with that Thinkpad. That makes a big difference when you're meeting with clients.

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
everything has shortcomings and strengths

princewolf wrote:

I never intended to offend anyone's convictions and I do apologize if I have done so. But here Barry and I are left on the defensive for criticizing Apple. Again, I have no judgement whether you spend your bucks on anything. But if I may, I will point out the shortcomings of a hardware as I see them. And the shortcoming in this case is that you can get tablet PCs that can do more or less the same work done. Yeah, in some you don't get auto orientation, or finger sweep zoom or all those features. But in my opinion it doesn't justify the price difference. If having this opinion leads to being lynched for not getting Apple, then so be it.

Everything has shortcomings. So what? If you look for the shortcomings in any product, you will find them. But you can't let that interfere with your ability to see its advantages, though.

As for Leica, please note I have inserted the word SOME but NOT ALL models. By the way I never owned a real Leica(I don't count the Pana-icas) If you build a Full Frame range-finder with an optical viewfinder in a tough package and better interface(where Leica does indeed need some improvement), AND make it cheaper, I'll buy from you I promise.

Yeah, but to say that a product like an iPad, which you probably have never even used, nor spent much of any time with, is just some marketing gimmick is simply foolish. Read my post earlier:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=38011158

I'm certainly not an Apple fanboy, as I have plenty of other devices that are clearly not Apple products. However, with an objective eye, and putting my money where my mouth is, I can evaluate a product for its merits (rather than based on ill-conceived prejudices) and make decisions based on both a product's strengths and weaknesses. And from first-hand experience, especially weighed against the many other devices I currently own, I can certainly say that the iPad's strengths easily outweigh its weaknesses. So much so that when the iPad 3 comes out, I will most likely buy one of those, too. And it's not because I am some mindless lemming that does whatever Steve Jobs commands. The fact is, it's a highly valuable product for me. And my wife enjoys using our iPad so much that I think it would be a good idea that we have two of them.

The other consideration that many people ignore is the apps ecosystem that supports the iPad. Right now, the apps ecosystem for the Android tablets is almost non-existent. And it will probably take at least a year for it to get up to speed (depending on how well these Android tablets sell). The apps market for the iPad, on the other hand, is already quite mature, and the apps being produced for this platform are excellent, and getting better every day. There are truly some amazing apps for the iPad! You can have the best hardware in the world, but if you don't have decent programs for it, you are no better off. In fact, you can easily be worse off. So while non-iPad users love to obsess about the minutiae of the hardware, they often completely ignore the very strong Apps ecosystem that is currently unequaled. Sure, the Android tablet apps will eventually get there (depending on how well the Android tablets sell), but they aren't anywhere close yet.

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Jon Rty Veteran Member • Posts: 3,838
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

The Samsung is hardly the only non-Apple ultra-portable. There's hardly a manufacturer that doesn't offer a ultra-portable of some sort, the Lenovo X220 mentioned earlier is a good example. It's true that by bundling SSDs with all Macbook Airs they're able to offer SSDs at very competitive prices, but on the flip-side you'll be stuck with outdated processors.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/16

And as you can see, the performance improvements of Sandy Bridge are very, very notable. The iPad 2 is actually the first Apple device I know of where I can without a doubt say that it offers really spectacular value.

T3 wrote:

The irony is that Apple has actually become the price leader in certain devices. Strange but true. Take, for example, their MacBook Air. Samsung recently came out with a competitor to the Macbook Air. But Samsung's Macbook Air competitor, the 9 series, is $300 more expensive than the Air.

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
Re: get both

Jon Rty wrote:

The thing is, there's tablet computers, and the modern day ARM based phone-esque tablets. And you'll have to really consider your needs when going with a ARM based tablet to be sure you're willing to sacrifice all that computing power, software-support, calibration and connectivity just for half a kilo in weight, less than one centimeter in thickness and a couple of hours of battery life.

I think the problem is that people keep thinking a lightweight, lighter-powered tablet like an iPad needs to compete with the power of a tablet computer. I don't need the iPad to do any heavy processing and heavy lifting. That's what I have my laptops and workstations for. What I need from my iPad is to have a beautiful screen, beautiful interface, gobs of battery life, be lightweight and slim enough for me to take everywhere, and for people (ie, my clients) to enjoy using it. Everything else besides that is just gravy. So by having a powerhouse computer and a slim, lightweight, battery-goes-forever device like an iPad, I can have the best of both worlds.

It's like people who wonder if they should get a 35mm lens or an 85mm lens. Get both! They serve two different purposes. Sure, they both happen to be lenses that focus images, but besides that they are quite different and fit different tasks. The same goes for a high-powered computer vs a light-weight tablet. Have both, and get the benefits of both. It's not a matter of "sacrificing". When I am out and about with my iPad, I don't see any "sacrificing". I value it for what it does well. And I use it as such.

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Laurentiu Todie
Laurentiu Todie Senior Member • Posts: 2,567
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

… Practical types don't buy Apple

I'm a practical guy, I use Apple computers for photo retouching.
(did so since Photoshop 1.07; that was practical : )

Unfortunately the web hype does not help as their products get undue coverage. We should not even be talking about the Ipad it's got nothing at all to do with photography.

You can talk or not talk about anything you want or don't want.

I mind my own business.

Laurentiu Todie
Laurentiu Todie Senior Member • Posts: 2,567
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

princewolf wrote:

…If having this opinion leads to being lynched for not getting Apple, then so be it.

Nobody's lynching you, you're lynching Apple users.
(parallax correction : )

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
there are always people behind the curve

princewolf wrote:

Spot on.

Spot on about the iPad just being an "overpriced gimmick and of very little real use for photographers?"

Sure, that's why there are so many videos posted to youtube by professional photographers, showing professional photographers using the iPad.

For example, here's Challenge Roddie, a very successful fashion and celebrity photographer talking about how he's been using the iPad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Ud66j47eA&feature=related (jump to 2:30 in the video to get to the meat of what he's talking about).

Or how about the perspective of a former iPad skeptic, successful commercial & editorial photographer, Lara Rossignol:

http://www.piewacketblog.com/journal/2010/6/8/the-ipad-according-to-pie.html

And many, many other pros are doing the same with their iPad. Some pros are even sending out iPads or leaving iPads with clients so that the clients can view their portfolios. In fact, the practice is becoming so prevalent that there are even apps specifically designed for this purpose. You can load up your portfolio, and the viewer can only access your portfolio.

There are always going to be people who are slow to adapt to technology, or are slow to see what new uses and applications new devices and technologies offer. The iPad is just one such device. The less visionary and slower-to-adapt folks will dismiss it as a "gimmick", just like many photographers of the past dismissed things like auto exposure, auto focus, image stabilization, TTL flash metering, and even digital photography as being nothing more then expensive "gimmicks" with no real use to real photographers. But of course, history has proven these naysayers wrong. And likewise, the iPad/tablet naysayers will also find themselves on the wrong side of history.

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robogobo Forum Member • Posts: 86
Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?

This is obviously a heated topic, and it's no surprise that people want this to work- the iPad indeed has the potential to be the perfect photographer's field tool. It may actually come together soon, but it's really not there yet. I've been trying to use the iPad as a review and selection tool for almost a year, and while it's possible in some cases, the lack of stability and coherence among software and hardware is still the biggest obstacle. Too many hacks are necessary, and they don't always work. Many areas need to be refined, simplified and clarified by apple and the camera manufacturers before the iPad can be used as a serious tool. Hopefully they will realize there are thousands of users who view it as a tool and not a toy.

Personally, I don't need the iPad to be a raw processor. I think the muscle won't be there for several more generations. I do however want a simple and reliable viewer that can be tethered directly to a dslr wired or wirelessly, that can capture raw files, store them, and display a quick full res jpeg, whether that be one generated by the camera or by an app on the iPad, and then allow export via ftp, email, etc. That would solve 90% of my field problems. I think this is totally possible with today's hardware, iPad 1 or 2. It's just a matter of apple opening the cck up for third party access, and the camera manufacturers allowing direct ptp communication during capture mode so that photos can be transferred following each shot in real time.

I don't have time to mess with eyefi hacks, or wait for the built-in photos app to import and then import again into a third party app that may or may not crash and may or may not try to do way too much with a 25mb file beyond it's capabilities. I'll save the post processing for a more powerful machine. First things first. The iPad is a great tethered shooting tool, as long as we can lose the peripheral laptop/desktop. What's the point of a portable tablet when you need a less portable computer to make it function? Come on already- the decision between tool and toy lies within apple, canon, nikon and adobes hands. Or maybe someone younger with vision can figure out a way to show up the old boys and really do what needs to be done.

Crossing fingers.

Mentor_1 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,773
Controvisersial statement

It's a toy purchased by tools. Crap I'm in trouble now!
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PicOne
PicOne Veteran Member • Posts: 6,931
Really... if you boil it all down

it seems the iPad's main utility for photographers is as a selling agent of one's work in an electronic portfolio. It doesn't really contribute in any unique way to actually improved photography, composition, postproduction, technique, etc.. but rather furthers the business of photography thru increased sales.

At least from what I've read above, nobody who likes their iPad, is saying its actually due to some specific app that they couldn't do without and that helps them take better pictures. The folks who don't see the utility of an iPad, presumably aren't in a position where they need to bring a portable electronic portfolio on the road with them that can be continually displayed for 10 hours before a battery recharge is possible.

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
plenty of stuff. Just do a search.

PicOne wrote:

it seems the iPad's main utility for photographers is as a selling agent of one's work in an electronic portfolio. It doesn't really contribute in any unique way to actually improved photography, composition, postproduction, technique, etc.. but rather furthers the business of photography thru increased sales.

At least from what I've read above, nobody who likes their iPad, is saying its actually due to some specific app that they couldn't do without and that helps them take better pictures. The folks who don't see the utility of an iPad, presumably aren't in a position where they need to bring a portable electronic portfolio on the road with them that can be continually displayed for 10 hours before a battery recharge is possible.

Do a youtube search of "iPad Photography Apps". Plenty of people have posted videos of their favorite iPad apps. Or do a google search of "iPad Photography Apps." You'll find plenty of stuff. It includes everything from custom designed portfolios, to tilt-shift effect generators, to digital photography magazines, to sun position tracking, to lighting diagramming, to instructional apps, etc. Here are just a few examples:

http://theappwhisperer.com/2011/02/28/top-10-photography-ipad-apps-of-february-2011/

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tiltshift-generator-for-ipad/id364225705?mt=8

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/digital-photographer-magazine/id345030191?mt=8

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/strobox/id339112815?mt=8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR9VogRcTAE&feature=related

http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2010/archives/11227

http://filterstorm.com/fs2/index.tai

And with so many photographers using the iPad, there are more and more photography apps being developed for the iPad every day. Displaying your images is just one aspect of the iPad.

You also have to remember that there are a lot of uses for the iPad beyond just photography, too. For example, I have a Newsweek subscription that gets delivered to my iPad every week. I also have a huge collection of full color magazines and books stored on my iPad. I have 2010's complete collection of National Geographic Magazine on my iPad. Esquire, The Economist, GQ, Professional Photographer Magazine, American Photo, etc. All are stored on my iPad. This means no magazines cluttering up the house, and no magazines end up in the trash. I like keeping issues of magazines, particularly photography magazine, but the problem is that they just take up too much space, and eventually get tossed out. Now, with digital magazines, that's no longer an issue.

These days, all my magazines are PDFs or some other electronic form, on my iPad, always accessible.

Sure, you can read PDFs on your laptop or desktop. But the experience is entirely different. Looking at PDF magazines or books on an iPad is a lot more like...well, like looking at a magazine or book. You hold it in your hand, there's no heat or fan running, you flip through with your hands, you zoom in with a simple motion of your fingers (ok, you can't zoom into a real magazine with your fingers, but you can with an iPad). No need for a mouse or keyboard. It's a nice experience.

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,276
more apps
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