Some K-5s have stains on sensor/AA filter (Part II)

Started Dec 5, 2010 | Discussions
Pete Fang Senior Member • Posts: 1,900
Some K-5s have stains on sensor/AA filter (Part II)

I started this thread a day ago:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=37092371

It has reached the maximum number of posts (150) within 22 hours. Therefore, I am starting this new threads so we can continue the discussion here.

Peter

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Peter Fang - Pentax user for more than 25 years: K-5 / MZ-S / Z-1 / SFX / LX
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Britney Elvis Veteran Member • Posts: 5,373
Hoya/Pentax needs to address this ASAP

This is blowing up pretty fast and affecting the reputation of what was a highly regarded camera. There are too many of our loyal pentaxians who are seeing this and it is very obvious.

This is not something Hoya Pentax can just ignore the way they did with Kx bluring issue.

They need to step up, pay the return shipping costs, and fix these cameras.

Pete Fang wrote:

I started this thread a day ago:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=37092371

It has reached the maximum number of posts (150) within 22 hours. Therefore, I am starting this new threads so we can continue the discussion here.

Peter

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'Nothing is worse than active ignorance'

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

jthommo101 Contributing Member • Posts: 529
Remember John C Pentax and the SDM problem?

He said, on this forum, Pentax was "looking into it". Nothing happened, Pentax never admitted there was a problem and never engaged with the user base. (Us).

I fear the same will happen here. We know they read the forum and occasionally post something...so they will have seen this (and the threads over at PentaxForums).

But they won't engage. We are on our own and relying on the goodwill of the store from which we bought our cameras.

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Britney Elvis Veteran Member • Posts: 5,373
Re: Remember John C Pentax and the Kx blur problem?

Yes I remember the JCP incident as it related to the KX blur issue, People pressed him for answers and he --- Never came back with any info. Not really sure he has been back, but I may have missed it.

This is different though on one big level... We could post pics of the Kx blur till the cows came home and the apologists/enthusiasts would/could say that it was technique, user error, bla bla bla causing the problem.

This looks to be cameras with a variation of the same obvious defect. If hoya does not publically address this and do the right thing with return shipping costs and actually fix the problem this time... they will pay a hefty price IMO. This is the flagship camera with a defect directly in line with the image sensor, in the hands of some of our faithful, not a fushia entry level camera in the hands of a newbie.

This K5 is too good of a camera to let this be such public negative, especially since it should be an easy fix.
--
'Nothing is worse than active ignorance'

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Gazooma Senior Member • Posts: 2,159
Re: Remember John C Pentax and the Kx blur problem?

Britney Elvis wrote:

Yes I remember the JCP incident as it related to the KX blur issue, People pressed him for answers and he --- Never came back with any info. Not really sure he has been back, but I may have missed it.

This is different though on one big level... We could post pics of the Kx blur till the cows came home and the apologists/enthusiasts would/could say that it was technique, user error, bla bla bla causing the problem.

This looks to be cameras with a variation of the same obvious defect. If hoya does not publically address this and do the right thing with return shipping costs and actually fix the problem this time... they will pay a hefty price IMO. This is the flagship camera with a defect directly in line with the image sensor, in the hands of some of our faithful, not a fushia entry level camera in the hands of a newbie.

This K5 is too good of a camera to let this be such public negative, especially since it should be an easy fix.
--

Seems to me "public address" is not a term Hoya/Pentax can comprehend.

'Nothing is worse than active ignorance'

Ignoring truth and negative news is active ignorance, non?

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

jthommo101 Contributing Member • Posts: 529
Pentax needs to be open about this

Sorry for flogging a dead horse, but if Pentax had been open about the SDM problem it would have benefitted us - and them.

For example I would love to own both the 16-50 and 50-135 but I won't because I have no idea if the SDM problem has been fixed. Pentax won't say, so I must assume the lenses are still flawed.

I bet I'm not the only one with this view.

I just wish they would acknowledge this sensor problem, recall the affected batches and issue replacements or fix them.

But I am certain they won't - and like the SDM issue, it will cost them sales.

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WRB Regular Member • Posts: 123
Re: Hoya/Pentax needs to address this ASAP

Something like this would be a nice start.

Nikon has announced it is working on a firmware upgrade in response to concerns raised about video from the D7000. The statement confirms the occasional occurrence of bright spots while recording videos as reported by some owners. The firmware will aim to reduce this occurrence. The company says these spots may be noticeable especially when recording movies of dark scenes or subjects and 'do not indicate a problem with practical use'. (18:18 GMT)

Davros Regular Member • Posts: 151
Re: Some K-5s have stains on sensor/AA filter (Part II)

I can confirm I've got the same problem at around f16. Faster apertures seem ok.

Australian purchase. Serial # 3851XXX

I noticed dust spots after I shot a sunrise the other morning. I thought it was simply dust. Seems like its a far greater problem. Gutted.

sfa1966
sfa1966 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,474
From the previous thread ...

From the previous thread ...

Pete Fang wrote

I think you should talk to Jebsen next week. Mine was purchased from Jebsen (China) and they asked me to bring mine back on Thursday. I was told Jebsen (HK) had eight such cases reported already and they will replace those with new bodies.

Eight K-5s in HK with the problem already? Wowza. That's possibly all of them (bar mine).

Anyway, thanks Peter, I will do as you suggest. And thanks also for starting the original thread on the issue.

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Cheers,
sfa

A very limited photographer ...

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Benoz
Benoz Veteran Member • Posts: 6,364
Mine is clean,3842xxx, but...

I noticed that when I activate 'Dust Removal' a little icon appears on the LCD but can't hear any noise, where the K-7 does produce a faint sound. Is this normal?

I guess I am one of the lucky ones about the faulty sensors and I hope Pentax will solve the problem one way or another.
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Plaszm New Member • Posts: 6
Re: Some K-5s have stains on sensor/AA filter (Part II)

Peter, although you said in Part I that here is much more civilized than Xitek.com in China,but also there are some apologists or 'fans' who are not like a user/customer but just like a fighter for Pentax/HOYA.So,you did a hard work.I need to say something to the users out of China.

Why we post here?

1.Firstly,I want to tell you why I post a talking thread on our Chinese BBS.Peter had said something about this question in Part I. After a Hongkong user reported this 'stain' issue on our Chinese forums.Some trolls and 'apologists' began their works and fights with different ways.

The real K-5 users did not know which side hold the truth.Then,as a user,I checked and confirmed that my K-5 also had stains.And,when I sent it to local distributor,they checked it with microscope and said that the 'stain' was under the AA filter.They confirm this is a QC problem,but they can do nothing for repairing work.Just let me return it to them and wait. So,I speak out as a user directly,not like the trolls or apologists' way.I think what we had done is to help Pentax better.We like Pentax.We hope they do better works for users.

2.The second reason is:Is this a issue just in Greater Chinese areas? We found that more and more Chinese users reported this problem(over 20 users in our BBS).And,there was a Taiwan user who bought K-5 from Amazon in US. So we think maybe this is not a issue just for Chinese users.We want to let other K-5 users out of China know it and check there cameras.

For Pentax,they should check their producing line and QC.Just like Peter said:" I believe the earlier we help Pentax identify the problem, the sooner Pentax can figure out what went wrong in the manufacturing process and correct the problem sooner. Therefore fewer future customers will be affected."

3.The third reason is about customors right protecting. I and Peter are Pentax senior user and customers for a long time.We bought K-5 with the primary high price earlierly.And we both thought K-5 is a wonderful camera.

Unluckly,we all found this 'stain' problem after a Hongkong user reported on our Chinese mainland photogragh forum.Then,we both sent our K-5 to distributors(two different,one in Beijing,another in Shanghai) this week.But,untill now,the local distributors in mainland China just let users return cameras to them by theirself.And they did not make any promises or responses such as they will return a newone or other comments either.They just said that they need Pentax confirm firstly,and then they would make a response.Just a few users got a new cameras because they found the problem just less than 7 days after they bought it.So,Pentax and local distributors in China did not do a well work for their customs.Untill now,Pentax did not make a official response.A lot of users just like I and Peter just can do is "wait"........

Kind regards
--
Plaszm

John Pennington Senior Member • Posts: 1,017
Re: Some K-5s have stains on sensor/AA filter (Part II)

They may well be dust spots.

I think the danger here is that every DSLR will show spots at f16, f22 etc. and most will probably be just dust.

Davros wrote:

I can confirm I've got the same problem at around f16. Faster apertures seem ok.

Australian purchase. Serial # 3851XXX

I noticed dust spots after I shot a sunrise the other morning. I thought it was simply dust. Seems like its a far greater problem. Gutted.

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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 40,519
Re: Some K-5s have stains on sensor/AA filter (Part II)

My K-x is clean as a whistle up to F40, but over time i do see stubborn dirt appear in small aperture shots
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Frederick J Stewart Regular Member • Posts: 242
Re: Some K-5s have stains on sensor/AA filter (Part II)

Mine.....3836425.

F22 barely visible at at F13. I had a few dust spot,some still visible upper left.

.

lol101 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,855
Thanks for keeping us posted.

The most important thing people who discovered they have a problem can do now is to keep the rest of us posted on the results they'll get with their replacement units.

For all we know, the problem may only affect a relatively small number of units and may already be gone if it was due to a glitch in the manufacturing process.

It will help to keep a safe balance between the "Pentax QC is junk!" people and the "Pentax can't do no wrong!" ones.

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Martyn UK Regular Member • Posts: 111
and what will happen to those defective units?

If Pentax was concerned about it's reputation it should do 'the right thing' and recall those faulty units.

If they don't what's going to happen to them? Most people on the forum weren't aware of the problem with their new cameras until they were, thankfully, alerted to it. The worry here is that retailers are going to put them back in the box and ship them straight out again to someone who, they hope, won't notice the problem.

I love my K10D and the K5 is probably going to be an award winning camera. - This problem is such a shame - if you were paranoid you might be forgiven for thinking a bit of industrial espionage had crept in!

What I want to hear FROM PENTAX before I part with my cash is a) They've identified the cause of the probelm and b) The serial numbers, after which, the problem had been resolved. This 'ignore it and it will go away' attitude they appear to have does them no credit.

Martyn

Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 11,382
Test carefully...

at f/22, dust in the lens will appear on the picture. If you find anything, test with another lens . If the spots are in the same place, try to clean the sensor - using Dust Removal, and then other solutions - blower, the Pentax cleaning kit...
If anything fails, well, that's what the warranty is for.

P.S. Yes, my K-5 is clean.

Alex S.

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Goofyboy Forum Member • Posts: 71
Does it get worse over time? That is the $24000 question!

One of the forum members mentioned that the stain got worse over time. That is most worrying. QC problem is one thing but a more fundamental design fault or manufacturing defect is another.

I hope Hoya is looking into this very seriously, and make the public known of their findings and rectification ASAP.

I so want to upgrade my K20. Hoya, please, don't force me to wait for another 12~18 months for the next K5 or force me to jump ship.
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lol101 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,855
Re: and what will happen to those defective units?

Martyn UK wrote:

If Pentax was concerned about it's reputation it should do 'the right thing' and recall those faulty units.

If it's a systematic glitch during a production run, they might be able to do this.

If it's an occasional glitch, they won't.

If they don't what's going to happen to them? Most people on the forum weren't aware of the problem with their new cameras until they were, thankfully, alerted to it. The worry here is that retailers are going to put them back in the box and ship them straight out again to someone who, they hope, won't notice the problem.

Pentax might also just be able to simply repare the faulty units by disassembling & cleaning them. Then they should be as good as new.

I love my K10D and the K5 is probably going to be an award winning camera. - This problem is such a shame - if you were paranoid you might be forgiven for thinking a bit of industrial espionage had crept in!

Let's not go there shall we?

What I want to hear FROM PENTAX before I part with my cash is a) They've identified the cause of the probelm and b) The serial numbers, after which, the problem had been resolved. This 'ignore it and it will go away' attitude they appear to have does them no credit.

That would be a perfect way to deal with it if the numbers of faulty cameras is large. But Pentax might also choose to treat it on a case by case basis if the numbers of problematic cameras is low compared to the total production.

Hence the importance of the people who are reporting the issue to tell if their problems have been solved by Pentax.

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lol101 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,855
Re: Some K-5s have stains on sensor/AA filter (Part II)

John Pennington wrote:
They may well be dust spots.

I think the danger here is that every DSLR will show spots at f16, f22 etc. and most will probably be just dust.

Davros wrote:

I can confirm I've got the same problem at around f16. Faster apertures seem ok.

Australian purchase. Serial # 3851XXX

I noticed dust spots after I shot a sunrise the other morning. I thought it was simply dust. Seems like its a far greater problem. Gutted.

There is a simple way to know: clean the sensor and see if the stains/spots disapear or change in place/number.

If nothing changes, you have a faulty unit, otherwise, just go on using this excellent camera.

Of course, no one should report a "problem" without having, first, tried to clean their sensor.

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