HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

Started Nov 17, 2010 | Discussions
PIX SHOOTER Senior Member • Posts: 1,446
HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

Anyone get an email regarding this? I have been going round and round with HP since last week over my Photosmart C7280 that died. It is under warranty but I am weary of the refurb (C309A) they want to replace it with. I am reading lots of bad reviews...especially gulping inks. Both printers are included in the class action. From what I read HP wants to settle quick and give customers a credit from $2.00 to $6.00 dollars. Check out the link see if your past or present printer is included. https://www.hpinkjetprintersettlement.com/

Seems there are 3 separate lawsuits involved.

1. Ciolino v. HP

This lawsuit claims that certain HP inkjet printers used “low on ink” messaging technology to indicate that replacement of a cartridge is needed when the cartridge is not empty and is capable of additional printing, and that this technology confused customers into prematurely replacing their inkjet cartridges. HP denies all these claims.
2. Rich v. HP

In this lawsuit, plaintiffs claim that certain HP color inkjet printers used color ink in addition to black ink when printing black text and images without disclosing this to consumers and without providing consumers with the option of disabling this feature, that HP misrepresented and/or failed to disclose the actual page yield for the products at issue (including the true basis for the page yield and cost per page information provided to consumers), and that HP failed to disclose its use of color ink when printing black in connection with stating its page yields. HP denies all these claims.
3. Blennis v. HP

This lawsuit claims that HP designed certain of its inkjet printers and cartridges to shut down on an undisclosed expiration date, and that at this point consumers are prevented from using the ink that remains in the expired cartridge and from using all of the printer’s functions until the expired cartridge is replaced. HP denies all these claims.

Would like to hear some input on this from members, especially HP owners.

knolan Contributing Member • Posts: 802
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

My HP-8300 ink-jet would come on saying low ink but after contacting an HP tech I found put it comes on with 20% still left which is a hell of a lot of ink to waste, Ken

Vernon D Rainwater Forum Pro • Posts: 13,496
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

knolan wrote:

My HP-8300 ink-jet would come on saying low ink but after contacting an HP tech I found put it comes on with 20% still left which is a hell of a lot of ink to waste, Ken

I do NOT have any model of HP Ink-jet printers, however; I believe the message (or indicator) of LOW ink is so that the user will be aware of the forthcoming time when the ink is at the LOW point that requires a new Cartridge be inserted for the printer to again print normally. Therefore, it is NOT indicating that the cartridge must be changed at the "Low Ink" warning and if users are doing so (at that time) it is the Operator's decision and they may be wasting ink on their own choice when not needed to do so.

I have 4 Epson Photo printers and that is basically the way that ALL of my Epson Printers function.
--
Vernon...

OP PIX SHOOTER Senior Member • Posts: 1,446
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

Digging around I see that there was a a class action against Epson back in 2006, but they offered a bit more to their customers. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=18035510
Epson denied any wrong-doing but settled. The settlement offered three options:
o $45 credit at Epson's e-store (the default benefit)
o $25 by check + $20 credit at Epson's e-store
o 25% off purchases at Epson's e-store up to a limit of $100 credit

Brian Wadie
Brian Wadie Veteran Member • Posts: 8,315
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

this could only happen in America!

 Brian Wadie's gear list:Brian Wadie's gear list
Panasonic G85 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 R Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm F1.8 Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro +3 more
LDunn1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,870
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

.....just what I was thinking. I hope our legal system does not go the same route, but I fear it is.

One of the three claims was in relation to the expiry date on a cartridge & the printer stopping printing with it - I bet the same customers who filed the suit would also file a suit for clogged heads if HP had not put this 'protection' in place & then old cartridge ink clogged their heads.

 LDunn1's gear list:LDunn1's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 20D Canon EOS 40D Sony Alpha a7R III Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye +8 more
E Dinkla Senior Member • Posts: 1,106
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

Vernon D Rainwater wrote:

knolan wrote:

My HP-8300 ink-jet would come on saying low ink but after contacting an HP tech I found put it comes on with 20% still left which is a hell of a lot of ink to waste, Ken

I do NOT have any model of HP Ink-jet printers, however; I believe the message (or indicator) of LOW ink is so that the user will be aware of the forthcoming time when the ink is at the LOW point that requires a new Cartridge be inserted for the printer to again print normally. Therefore, it is NOT indicating that the cartridge must be changed at the "Low Ink" warning and if users are doing so (at that time) it is the Operator's decision and they may be wasting ink on their own choice when not needed to do so.

I have 4 Epson Photo printers and that is basically the way that ALL of my Epson Printers function.
--
Vernon...

That is the way the HPs I know act too. I even made use of that, if you have a cart with a "low" indication in the driver/printer utility you can refill them endlessly (from ëxpired" carts for example) and they keep that mark till they actually run dry and are declared "empty". In other cases I have measured HP carts by weight and volume and noticed that they contained more than the manufacturer's specifications. On both ink volume and what is left in the carts after being declared empty I had worse experience with Epson wide format carts in the past.

For the HP Officejet that I have, my experience has been that you better keep it powered on than off as initialising the printer takes a lot of ink. When it is on it does some cleaning rituals from time to time but that doesn't take much ink.

-- hide signature --
OP PIX SHOOTER Senior Member • Posts: 1,446
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

Not sure I am following you. Are you putting blame on the customers?

LDunn1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,870
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

....I don't think I'd go as far as 'blaming' anyone.

The way I see it, HP (& Epson, Canon for that matter) put alot of time, effort & money into developing technology, in this case printer technology. 99% of the time the products at the point of launch are very good products.

They have tried to improve our lives with these products, offering convenient features like low ink level warnings, so you either know that you need to re-order OR don't run out of ink part way through a print. They give us technology that reduces the risk of one of those microscopic nozzles clogging, in the form of ink aging warnings........& then they get criticised for it & lawsuits filed against them for trying to do the right thing! I just feel it is wrong to raise law suits for this sort of thing.

I'd rather throw away a few milli-litres of ink & not have the frustration of blocked nozzles, or part printed photos, or running out of ink because I was unaware that a cartridge was nearly empty.

We should be thanking these companies for developing these technologies, not penalising them for it. Sure, maybe the technology is less than perfect, but that is the nature of development - you can always improve something.

 LDunn1's gear list:LDunn1's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 20D Canon EOS 40D Sony Alpha a7R III Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye +8 more
Stujomo
Stujomo Senior Member • Posts: 1,429
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

I have a hp printer a 7850. I find I can print till the cartridge is dry even if it says low. I did notice that the cartrides have an expiry date on them but I have never had one long enough to expire. As the print head is in the cartridge on my model there wont be any lasting damage by running them dry as they go in the bin once empty. I would like to one day fill a color cartridge with black ink to see if it will work better for B&W. I can't get the grey 100 cartridges any more ffrom my local stores.
--
Stuart...

http://www.sjmphotography.co.nr/

http://sjmphotography.wordpress.com/

 Stujomo's gear list:Stujomo's gear list
Nikon D1H Nikon D700 Nikon D800 Sony Alpha a7 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D +6 more
OP PIX SHOOTER Senior Member • Posts: 1,446
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

This was my first printer (besides the broken refurb B8850 that HP had sold me as a 'NEW UNIT' and was dead on arrival) so I can't compare to past printers or other brands. With the C7280 I mostly did b/w printing for paperwork/flyers etc.. and was amazed how fast 3 of the color inks ran out. Since I let them talk me into buying an extra set of ink when I purchased the printer I got stuck with 2 full cartridges when this printer died. They told me they may trade out one of the cartridges if it is not past expiration date. I had lifted the wrapper off one cartridge by mistake but did not use it, but they will not exchange any ink that is opened.

How long unopened inks usually good for until they expire? When I bought the extra set the expiration date was less then a year.

http://www.johnhillphotography.com/

Stujomo wrote:

I have a hp printer a 7850. I find I can print till the cartridge is dry even if it says low. I did notice that the cartrides have an expiry date on them but I have never had one long enough to expire. As the print head is in the cartridge on my model there wont be any lasting damage by running them dry as they go in the bin once empty. I would like to one day fill a color cartridge with black ink to see if it will work better for B&W. I can't get the grey 100 cartridges any more ffrom my local stores.
--
Stuart...

http://www.sjmphotography.co.nr/

http://sjmphotography.wordpress.com/

newbie Regular Member • Posts: 420
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

I am on my 3rd HP - Original was an 1125c and currently have an L7590 Officejet and Designjet 110 Plus. Reason I like them is that I find the ink usage extremely good. I keep my Designjet off for months at a time and even after 5 or so years it is still on its original colour cartridges and always works first time it is turned on.

What I find is that HP printers, or the ones I have had experience with, allow printing even if a cartridge is empty. I have noted the low warning but they continue to print anyway - not like the 2 Epsons I had that would not print unless a cartridge was useable. The only thing I do is to install a cartridge before the expiry date. I keep the Designjet turned off but the L7590 on as I use that every day and it rarely does maintenance/clean cycle unlike the Epsons which did it constantly and was one of the reasons I got rid of them.

 newbie's gear list:newbie's gear list
Canon PowerShot Pro70 Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD +3 more
OP PIX SHOOTER Senior Member • Posts: 1,446
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

newbie wrote:

I am on my 3rd HP - Original was an 1125c and currently have an L7590 Officejet and Designjet 110 Plus. Reason I like them is that I find the ink usage extremely good. I keep my Designjet off for months at a time and even after 5 or so years it is still on its original colour cartridges and always works first time it is turned on.

What I find is that HP printers, or the ones I have had experience with, allow printing even if a cartridge is empty. I have noted the low warning but they continue to print anyway - not like the 2 Epsons I had that would not print unless a cartridge was useable. The only thing I do is to install a cartridge before the expiry date. I keep the Designjet turned off but the L7590 on as I use that every day and it rarely does maintenance/clean cycle unlike the Epsons which did it constantly and was one of the reasons I got rid of them.

5 years with same cartridges?
Well darn. My AIO stopped every time a cartridge was getting low.

wankle Regular Member • Posts: 238
Re: HP Inkjet Printer class action settlement

What type of cartridges did it use? Usually the ones that lock up when empty are the ones with permanent or seperate print heads. If the print head is meant to last for many ink changes then it can not be allowed to run dry. My K550 is like that. Once it decides a supply is empty it will not print. On the other hand, my photosmart printer at home uses the small ink supplies that have the print head integrated. No harm in running the printhead dry with these since you are throwing them away and the spoftware supported that. I get a warning of low ink but once I clear that it will keep printing even if there is no ink left.

Gris Gris Man Junior Member • Posts: 48
You should see what they do with toner cartridges!

I'm an IT guy by trade and maintain a fleet of HP laser printers. We get toner low/replace cartridge soon when there are thousands of pages left.

HP printer division's primary function is not to sell printers. It is to sell ink and toner. They skirt the issue of requiring early replacement but do everything they can to encourage early cartridge replacement.

Likewise their replacement ink cartridges actually come in a variety of capacities that are not easy to identify on the packaging. In recent times they have started using an XL designation on the front without expressly stating what that means. The worst deal of all are the deceptive packs with all the cartridge colors and a pack of snapshot paper in a single bundle. That's a horrendous deal but it is very difficult to discern that the cartridges are very low capacity.

A bold print label somewhere on the packaging stating the number of pages that can be expected or at the very least the actual amount of ink for comparison should be a requirement. Also something to make it easier to distinguish at a glance the relative amounts on ink in the different cartridges. HP deliberately doesn't do this because they profit heavily from the confusion and misunderstanding of people that are not aware of the differences. It's deliberate and deceptive.

 Gris Gris Man's gear list:Gris Gris Man's gear list
Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 ED AL II (IF) Pentax smc DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED Pentax smc DA 40mm F2.8 Limited +2 more
(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,484
Re: You should see what they do with toner cartridges!

I am eligible for a $7 "e-credit" which can only be used at the online HP store. However, if claims exceed the $5 million dollar settlement limit I will receive less than $7...

It isn't worth the time to fill out the claim forms.

I am all for class action lawsuits because it is often the only feasible method for reigning-in corporate mis-deeds. But the settlement terms sometimes offer limited financial benefit to class members.

vjvl51 Forum Member • Posts: 68
Re: You should see what they do with toner cartridges!

Gris Gris Man wrote:

I'm an IT guy by trade and maintain a fleet of HP laser printers. We get toner low/replace cartridge soon when there are thousands of pages left.

HP printer division's primary function is not to sell printers. It is to sell ink and toner. They skirt the issue of requiring early replacement but do everything they can to encourage early cartridge replacement.

Likewise their replacement ink cartridges actually come in a variety of capacities that are not easy to identify on the packaging. In recent times they have started using an XL designation on the front without expressly stating what that means. The worst deal of all are the deceptive packs with all the cartridge colors and a pack of snapshot paper in a single bundle. That's a horrendous deal but it is very difficult to discern that the cartridges are very low capacity.

A bold print label somewhere on the packaging stating the number of pages that can be expected or at the very least the actual amount of ink for comparison should be a requirement. Also something to make it easier to distinguish at a glance the relative amounts on ink in the different cartridges. HP deliberately doesn't do this because they profit heavily from the confusion and misunderstanding of people that are not aware of the differences. It's deliberate and deceptive.

When I check the page to order new ink - IE - http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/supplies_model.do?model_name=HP%20Photosmart%20Premium%20Fax%20All%2Din%2DOne I can see very clearly how many pages a regular cartridge is rated for and how many pages an XL cartridge is rated for. Very easy to see the difference between regular cartridges and XL, IMO. Maybe it is different for your laser toners.

When I click on the actual cartridge, down near the bottom of the page under specifications is a link for more info. Clicking on this link takes you to another page that says - "Page yield is the number of pages a user can print with a given printer and cartridge, based on certain assumptions. HP participated in, supported the development of, and adopted the ISO/IEC 24711 standard for determining inkjet printer page yields. HP participated in, supported the development of, and adopted the ISO/IEC 19752 and ISO/IEC 19798 standards for determining monochrome and color laser printer page yields." I admit that this "standard" seems to inflate the number of pages that can be printed but when I asked about this, I was told the standard is printed in fast draft.

As long as all cartridges (all manufacturers seem to use the same "standard") are measured the same way, then I can cope. It would be different if I had a selection of cartridges from different manufacturers that fit my printer. Since I don't, I only use this info when choosing a new printer (ie cost per page) knowing that I will never achieve these results since I never use fast draft, I fail to see what good having "actual amount of ink for comparison" will do.

As to the photo packs, they contain the same regular cartridges (same labeling) that you can buy separate. I'm not sure where you get the idea "that the cartridges are very low capacity." unless you are comparing them to the XL cartridges. I have purchased these packs (since the photo paper costs about 2 cents when not on sale and they were on sale recently) frequently and have never noticed more frequent replacement. I rarely print in colour so regular colour cartridges is fine for me.

My manual says - "Ink level warnings and indicators provide estimates for planning purposes only. When you receive a low-ink warning message, consider having a replacement cartridge available to avoid possible printing delays. You do not have to replace the cartridges until the print quality is unacceptable." Since the manual says you don't have to replace the ink cartridges until the print quality is unacceptable, that is what I do. Yes, I do get many more pages before print quality is affected.

Of course, the above applies to my printer only. You may have had other experiences with your printer.

Gris Gris Man Junior Member • Posts: 48
If you go to an office supply store and look at the cartridges ...

the differences are not readily apparent. And I just checked last week and the ink cartridges packaged with the photo pack were lower capacity than the regular standard cartridges. Now, this could very well differ from cartridge family to cartridge family as HP has such an huge number of different cartridges in use throughout their line. But there are substantial differences in capacity that are not easy to discern from the exterior packaging.

It's not the better informed people that get taken in by this. It's the regular consumer who may not even be aware that there are any differences in capacity.

 Gris Gris Man's gear list:Gris Gris Man's gear list
Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 ED AL II (IF) Pentax smc DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED Pentax smc DA 40mm F2.8 Limited +2 more
Sucked Dry New Member • Posts: 4
Re: You should see what they do with toner cartridges!

PIX SHOOTER wrote:

It is under warranty but I am weary of the refurb (C309A) they want to replace it with. I am reading lots of bad reviews...especially gulping inks. ...From what I read HP wants to settle quick and give customers a credit from $2.00 to $6.00 dollars.

I have a C309a, and it is indeed an ink hog, but I suspect that all inkjet printers are. I didn't believe some of the reviews I saw before I bought the printer, but they were right. The "specs" suggest 3.9 cents/page for text or 35 cents/ 4x6 photo. My own experience (I have posted elsewhere about third-party ink) was 73 to 81 cents/page for mixed text and light graphics.

A credit of even $60 would be grossly too small, in my opinion, considering annual ink costs and the monopolistic pricing. But $6 is completely outrageous. Ask what the lawyers are getting and hold out for a reasonable settlement.

vjvl51 wrote:

I admit that this "standard" seems to inflate the number of pages that can be printed but when I asked about this, I was told the standard is printed in fast draft.

Indeed it does exaggerate. If you look at the standard letter that they print, it's a fairly short paragraph in the middle of the page, and not much else. As far as I can tell, you can expect several times higher ink consumption. My suspicion is that this standard is so blatantly misleading as to be fraudulent.

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads