85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?

Started Oct 27, 2010 | Discussions
Goldmundo New Member • Posts: 5
85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?
1

Hi there lovely people,

Can someone experienced with bokeh tell me if my Canon 85mm 1.2 lens has some problem with the diaphragm or something else? Looking at these pictures it seems to me that bokeh is not so perfect as it should be from this lens. One issue is the jagged edges of circles of confusion and the other is circles cut in half and overall messiness of the bokeh.

Related to this or not, I also sometimes hear a certain rrrrr sound when autofocusing if the lens is in certain position (for example, shooting something on the floor 1m in front of my feet). I went to Canon service center in Bangkok and they told me I should go to the main center.. but I'm not sure how to do this since I can't make it rrrrr every time I autofocus.. and not sure what to do if they refuse to take my bokeh complaint into consideration.

And finally, what is the normal practice for when your lens is in for repair? I am going to Japan to shoot and don't want to go without this lens. Will they give me one of theirs to use in the meantime? My warranty will expire soon and I can't wait to repair/replace it until I'm back from Japan.

Thank you for your help!
Goldmund

Brad Durack Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: 85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?

i would find that quite concerning considering the price of the lens

is a mki or mkii ???

OP Goldmundo New Member • Posts: 5
Re: 85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?

Sorry I wasn't more specific. It's a 10 month old Canon 85mm 1.2 L II.

Brad Durack Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: 85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?

personally, i like both shots

however the bokeh does let them down

return it to canon asap

Goldmundo wrote:

Sorry I wasn't more specific. It's a 10 month old Canon 85mm 1.2 L II.

MirekE
MirekE Contributing Member • Posts: 925
Re: 85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?
1

If you are complaining about the cut off circles, I believe this is caused by the mirror box of your camera and it is normal.

OP Goldmundo New Member • Posts: 5
Re: 85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?

Yes, I wasn't sure about that one (cut off circles) so I thought I'd ask.

And what about the imperfect, jaggy edge of the circles? Is that normal?

mu55 Senior Member • Posts: 1,407
Re: 85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?

I was going to say that it's because your shooting at f1.4 and not f1.2 but the blades are meant to be rounded - so I agree take it to canon for a checkup
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MirkoK Contributing Member • Posts: 733
Re: 85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?

this bokeh for lightsources is perfectly normal for this lens!

JeroenW Contributing Member • Posts: 696
This is normal...

The bokeh bubles are indeed "clipped off" by the mirrorbox. All 85 1.2 will show this behavior under the same conditions with the same body attached. Here is an article about it:

http://toothwalker.org/optics/bokeh.html

Gr,

Jeroen

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OP Goldmundo New Member • Posts: 5
Re: This is normal... Thank you, Jeroen

Thank you Jeroen (and others). That article is what I needed!

I guess now the only thing left is to see what's with that vibration sound when focusing..

steve1984 Senior Member • Posts: 1,257
Re: This is normal... Thank you, Jeroen

Yes, as others have said, that bokeh is normal.

The vibration you mentioned - does it happen only at very close focussing distances? If so, it sounds like the lens is just struggling to focus close as the subject may be closer than the closest focussing distance of the lens (95cm?)

Goldmundo wrote:

Thank you Jeroen (and others). That article is what I needed!

I guess now the only thing left is to see what's with that vibration sound when focusing..

RustyRus Senior Member • Posts: 1,450
Re: This is normal... Thank you, Jeroen

I can not wait to buy this lens every time I use it, the lens amazes me.

If not for the simple fact that you are moving more glass than about 10 pint glasses.....

Sorry to interupt......

blakeSLO Contributing Member • Posts: 792
Re: This is normal... Thank you, Jeroen

I'm not sure if this is an option but i believe you can have the mirror box shaved off a little to reduce or eliminate this effect. I know people have altered mirrors in the past to improve clearance/compatibility with exotic lenses and I would look into this! (But thats just my two cents~!)
--
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Find the lens that enables you to capture your vision, not what others use to capture theirs.

ptoofan New Member • Posts: 8
Re: This is normal... Thank you, Jeroen

I have the same setup as you. Canon 5D Mark II and 85mm f1.2 Mark II and I use it quite extensively and ive never seen bokeh thats irregular.

Especially where some of your circles of confusion appear to have a portion sliced off. I'll have to check to see if I have some images with bright point sources of light specifically to post for comparison. But I dont ever recall this phenomenon. In fact quite the opposite, I love this lens for the fact that it has the creamiest bokeh ive ever seen in a lens.

Also I cant say I ever hear a sound when it focuses at close distances. I would return it to a canon service center for inspection.

Perhaps an apeture blade is misaligned.
--
Paul

tom sugnet Veteran Member • Posts: 3,342
Re: This is normal... Thank you, Jeroen

This looks like Mk1.

Mk2 has a rounded aperture diaphragm so one should expect perfect round highlights.

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Thomas Kachadurian
Thomas Kachadurian Veteran Member • Posts: 3,669
Re: 85mm 1.2 - Is this bokeh wrong?

Looks very much like what I get with my 50mm f1.2L.

I don't think there's anything wrong. The aperture blades are rounded, but they are still blades, not a perfect circle.

Tom

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coudet Veteran Member • Posts: 4,141
It's normal.

This is normal, there's nothing wrong with your 85/1.2.

This ugly cut-off bokeh is normal, fastest lenses are pretty much the worst offenders - Canons 85/1.2, 50/1.2 and the old 50/1.0.

Goldmundo wrote:

Can someone experienced with bokeh tell me if my Canon 85mm 1.2 lens has some problem with the diaphragm or something else? Looking at these pictures it seems to me that bokeh is not so perfect as it should be from this lens. One issue is the jagged edges of circles of confusion and the other is circles cut in half and overall messiness of the bokeh.

Brad Durack Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: It's normal.

I have a 50mm 1.2.......

i a still troubled by the bokeh from your lens, and would be getting it checked for sure... at the very least learns some different settings and shutter speeds to avoid such abrasive and irregular bokeh

coudet wrote:
This is normal, there's nothing wrong with your 85/1.2.

This ugly cut-off bokeh is normal, fastest lenses are pretty much the worst offenders - Canons 85/1.2, 50/1.2 and the old 50/1.0.

Goldmundo wrote:

Can someone experienced with bokeh tell me if my Canon 85mm 1.2 lens has some problem with the diaphragm or something else? Looking at these pictures it seems to me that bokeh is not so perfect as it should be from this lens. One issue is the jagged edges of circles of confusion and the other is circles cut in half and overall messiness of the bokeh.

Jan Madsen Senior Member • Posts: 2,398
Don't return it

Brad Durack wrote:

personally, i like both shots

however the bokeh does let them down

return it to canon asap

That would be stupid, as that behavior is completely normal.

I took a number of images of a highly out of focus lamp, and combined them in PS for each aperture used.

Here is the Canon 85mm f1.2 II at f1.2 and f1.4:

As can be seen there is several parts cut off at f1.2 in the corners, and less so at f1.4.

Furthermore the aperture is not completely round at f1.4, as the aperture blades are not perfectly circular (but close).

Finally the smaller area of corner aperture is a graphical illustration of vignetting. In fact the extreme corners are almost the same at f1.2 and f1.4, i.e. no stopping down.

The Canon 50mm f1 is by nature even worse (f1, f1.2 and f1.4):

Like the 85mm there is almost no change in the corners. The f1 lens shows some extra cut-offs compared to the 85mm, even the center is affected. This lens has more old style aperture blades, so they are less rounded compared to the 85mm.

Finally, as a little extra spice, an old INA 135mm f1.8 lens (mounted with T2 adaptor) at f1.8, f2 and f2.8:

With this lens mirror box cut-off is minimal, but it is "only" f1.8. What is impressive is the absolutely round aperture at f2 and f2.8 (in fact at any aperture down to f16). This is because of an 18 bladed aperture:

They don't make such things anymore....

All of the above on Canon 1Ds-II. Cut-off will vary from one body type to another.

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akin_t Veteran Member • Posts: 3,322
Then the lens isn't worth it

If that's normal, I don't envy anyone who owns that lens lol

MirkoK wrote:

this bokeh for lightsources is perfectly normal for this lens!

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