How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Started Jul 14, 2010 | Discussions
HotArt Regular Member • Posts: 125
How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Is there software that will hack or tweak an ICM profile that is close to the result you want, and then save it to a new ICM file?

 HotArt's gear list:HotArt's gear list
Olympus Stylus SP-100
Bob Collette Veteran Member • Posts: 3,842
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Yes, there is. While there are likely others as well, the two that I have used are Profile Editor within the Gretag Macbeth ProfileMaker Professional package, and Kodak Colorflow Profile Editor. I have used both packages to edit printer profiles, with good results. I don't believe the Kodak software is still being sold, however ProfileMaker Pro is still available.

 Bob Collette's gear list:Bob Collette's gear list
Canon PowerShot G3 +4 more
OP HotArt Regular Member • Posts: 125
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Thank you.

 HotArt's gear list:HotArt's gear list
Olympus Stylus SP-100
BobMert Senior Member • Posts: 1,306
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

I use profile editor as one method to tweak a profiles.
Just curios but what tweaks are your trying to make?
Bob

OP HotArt Regular Member • Posts: 125
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Hi Bob,

I want to be able to Start with any Color Space setting in Photoshop e.g. Adobe RGB.

Make changes as I would with a Photo file when using the Hue/Saturation Control in Photoshop, e.g. Saturate & darken Blue.

Then save my changes as a custom color space that I can use or edit when ever I want.

Do you know of any software that will do that?

 HotArt's gear list:HotArt's gear list
Olympus Stylus SP-100
Bob Collette Veteran Member • Posts: 3,842
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

I'm not aware of any software that will allow you to create your own custom color space, although I don't think this is what you really want to do. If you find that you normally have to apply a consistent set of corrections to get your print to come out correctly, then that might indicate that your printer profile might need tweaking. In this case, the Kodak software would be just the ticket. The way you use it is as follows (after installing it).

It adds two Photoshop plugins: Custom Color Import, and Custom Color Export. You use Custom Color Import to open an image. When it opens the image, it appends a small "tracer" image to the bottom of the image. The tracer contains a large number of color patches (1 pixel/color). You apply whatever corrections you normally need to make to get the image to print properly. You then use Custom Color Export to create the modified profile (you have to specify a profile to edit after using Import to open the image). The software computes an effects profile based on the changes made to the tracer image. The software then merges the correction profile with the original output profile to create a modified profile which incorporates the changes that you applied in Photoshop.

 Bob Collette's gear list:Bob Collette's gear list
Canon PowerShot G3 +4 more
Ethan Hansen Senior Member • Posts: 1,186
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Kodak's Colorflow editor was a dynamite product and the only one I am aware of that could be used within Photoshop to accurately adapt a profile based on adjustments to an image. It was a Mac-only product, and Kodak pulled it from the market years ago. Add it to the list of fantastic Kodak products meeting an early, inexplicable demise.

-- hide signature --
BobMert Senior Member • Posts: 1,306
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

The Kodak software sounds like what your looking for as it keeps everything in Photoshop. With Profile Editor all of the edits are done outside of Photoshop and while that works well, it does leave some room for error.

Another approach would be to build a profile target and reference file that reflects the changes you want and scan that in this would make a profile that reflects the changes without the need for editing after the profile is made. This approach is probably the least easy but in my opinion the most accurate as color control is very precise.
Bob

Bob Collette Veteran Member • Posts: 3,842
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Ethan, the Kodak Colorflow Custom Color Tools software (that I described earlier) was available for both Mac & Windows. I'm currently running it on my Windows machine. I was fortunate to be a beta tester for the product while it was being developed, as well as a Kodak imaging science engineer doing color management work. When the product shipped, I was given a complimentary copy. In my opinion, it was one of the easiest-to-use profile tuning tools ever developed. I've used it quite a bit over the years to optimize particular color issues.

Bob

 Bob Collette's gear list:Bob Collette's gear list
Canon PowerShot G3 +4 more
E Dinkla Senior Member • Posts: 2,528
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Ethan Hansen wrote:

Kodak's Colorflow editor was a dynamite product and the only one I am aware of that could be used within Photoshop to accurately adapt a profile based on adjustments to an image. It was a Mac-only product, and Kodak pulled it from the market years ago. Add it to the list of fantastic Kodak products meeting an early, inexplicable demise.

The Kodak Colorflow Custom Color Tools software runs on Windows too, at least up to Photoshop CS2 on XP. I have that. Purchased that some years ago from this shop:

http://shop.colourconfidence.com/product.php?xProd=1198&xCmd=cl&xLang=1

Creating Color Spaces is a more abstract undertaking, information for that is probably available at the sites of Bruce Lindbloom and Joseph Holmes. At least you will find enough color spaces there to cover 99% of all possible jobs to do. I wouldn't know how that could be done in Colorflow.

In Colorflow you can create an Abstract profile that can be used to alter images or other (device) profiles. I think the same can be done with PS actions though, on profiles too when the Colorflow plug-in is available.

-- hide signature --
OP HotArt Regular Member • Posts: 125
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Hi,

Please let me know the wedsite address for "Bruce Lindbloom and Joseph Holmes".

I would to have a look.

Thanks, to all for your good information.

 HotArt's gear list:HotArt's gear list
Olympus Stylus SP-100
Ethan Hansen Senior Member • Posts: 1,186
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Bob - the Windows version certainly would be useful. I have been unable to convince a modern Mac to run the old Colorflow tools. It also only supported Photoshop through CS (or perhaps CS2 -- it's been too long). Am I still correct that Kodak no longer sells the Colorflow tools as a stand-alone product?

-- hide signature --
Bob Collette Veteran Member • Posts: 3,842
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Ethan, as far as I know, Kodak no longer makes the software. However, I just did a Google search on "Kodak Colorflow Custom Color Tools", and it came up with at least one company still claiming to sell it, so it's worth a try. BTW, I have it running with Photoshop CS5, but only the 32-bit version.

Bob

 Bob Collette's gear list:Bob Collette's gear list
Canon PowerShot G3 +4 more
E Dinkla Senior Member • Posts: 2,528
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

I couldn't run it on Photoshop CS4 on Vista 64.
The 32 PS version is very buggy on that system anyway, the 64 very good.

-- hide signature --
JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,680
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

What would the point be of mucking about with the profile. If you want to change the way a print prints, do it in PS. The idea of a profile is to get your printer to print the correct colours that you see on a correctly calibrated screen. Mucking about witht he profile doesn't seem very logical to me. if you wnat certain prints to print differently then run an action in PS to change the image and then use the correct profile to print that.
Jules

HotArt wrote:

Hi Bob,

I want to be able to Start with any Color Space setting in Photoshop e.g. Adobe RGB.

Make changes as I would with a Photo file when using the Hue/Saturation Control in Photoshop, e.g. Saturate & darken Blue.

Then save my changes as a custom color space that I can use or edit when ever I want.

Do you know of any software that will do that?

-- hide signature --

Julesarnia on twitter

Ethan Hansen Senior Member • Posts: 1,186
Thanks Bob and Ernst!

Ordering a copy now. If ColorFlow Tools needs to run in an XP VMware machine rather than in Win 7x64, that's fine.

Thanks again.

-- hide signature --
Bob Collette Veteran Member • Posts: 3,842
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Jules, the reason for tweaking an ICC profile is to compensate for a less than perfect profile, not to do a one-time color move. If you read what I had posted earlier in this thread, you will notice that I said "If you find that you normally have to apply a consistent set of corrections to get your print to come out correctly, then that might indicate that your printer profile might need tweaking". That's where the Kodak software shines. It allows you to take whatever Photoshop tools you care to use and apply those corrections to the profile.

Hope this clarifies the rationale for profile tweaking.

 Bob Collette's gear list:Bob Collette's gear list
Canon PowerShot G3 +4 more
JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,680
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

Bob, I have no intention of using Kodak software over Adobe's PS. I have my profiles professionally made, I do not use canned profiles available on the web for the papers that I use in my business. These profiles print my pictures, as seen on my screen, from my Epson 4880. If I want to change the result I get, then I go to PS and change the picture until it is how I want it changed. I then print it and my printer prints the image that I saw on my screen. To me that is the way to print. You should not need a set of corrections. if you do, then your profile and or screen calibration is rubbish.
Jules

Bob Collette wrote:

Jules, the reason for tweaking an ICC profile is to compensate for a less than perfect profile, not to do a one-time color move. If you read what I had posted earlier in this thread, you will notice that I said "If you find that you normally have to apply a consistent set of corrections to get your print to come out correctly, then that might indicate that your printer profile might need tweaking". That's where the Kodak software shines. It allows you to take whatever Photoshop tools you care to use and apply those corrections to the profile.

Hope this clarifies the rationale for profile tweaking.

-- hide signature --

Julesarnia on twitter

E Dinkla Senior Member • Posts: 2,528
Re: How do you hack or tweak an ICM profile?

JulesJ wrote:

Bob, I have no intention of using Kodak software over Adobe's PS. I have my profiles professionally made, I do not use canned profiles available on the web for the papers that I use in my business. These profiles print my pictures, as seen on my screen, from my Epson 4880. If I want to change the result I get, then I go to PS and change the picture until it is how I want it changed. I then print it and my printer prints the image that I saw on my screen. To me that is the way to print. You should not need a set of corrections. if you do, then your profile and or screen calibration is rubbish.
Jules

Nothing replaces a good spectrometer, a calibrated printer, a target with many patches and good profile creation software. Editing a profile then is hardly ever needed. From time to time however a good editor can help. As an example the HP Z models print a gloss enhancer on the image but not where RGB=255, reducing the RG to 254 in the profile just gives the white that GE too. It doesn't shift the color though and does the job on the fly in printing from Photoshop.

Then there is the softproof side of a printer profile, in the Colorflow software you can change the softproof slightly to the print side. No harm is done to the print but that tiny change may bring the print and the softproof closer to one another.

A device link profile can be created in Colorflow, simulating a device (printer) on another device (printer). This can be handy when you switch to a new printer with a wider gamut and you still have to make prints that resemble the prints from the old printer. Of course the new printer has to overlap the old one in gamut to get that correct. It is more often used in the print proofing shops.

Then there are some artistic possibilities, simulating film gamuts on digital images etc.

All of that is possible on RGB- and CMYK-device profiles, input, monitor, output,profiles. The manual itself is in my view the best route to get an understanding what profiles do in the CM workflow.

Many color gurus will tell you that nothing is better than a perfectly created profile in the first place. No editor will heal a second rate profile. But all the color gurus have a profile editor on their system and Colorflow has been the most popular one.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41225&pid=345287&mode=threaded&start=#entry345287

-- hide signature --
Igrekess New Member • Posts: 3
Re: Thanks Bob and Ernst!

Hi !

I'm looking desperatly where I can find (and buy) this great kodak plugin (Custom Color Tools)... Could I ask you where you find it in 2010 ?

Thx

Yan

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads